Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015-2020 => Topic started by: Sidot on August 25, 2018, 11:56:54 AM
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Getting used to my Jazz CVT and enjoying driving it.
Forty odd years in the saddle with various manual change cars but this is my first automatic.
Was a bit nervous ( I'm not a young man anymore !) but gaining confidence.
This really is a silly question and forgive me for asking....it's probably basic for you young people out there.....
When stopped in traffic or at traffic lights I'm leaving the car in D mode and keeping my foot on the brake before moving it to the accelerator pedal to move away smoothly.
BUT should I hold it with the handbrake or change the shift lever to N and apply the handbrake ?
Thank you for your patience with me and my daft question.
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There have been long debates about this before and no doubt this will spark another!
Personally I normally leave it in D and use the footbrake, which invokes autostop, or if I don't wan't to use autostop I press lightly on the footbrake.
There are those here who will curse me as a brakelight dazzler !
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There have been long debates about this before and no doubt this will spark another!
Personally I normally leave it in D and use the footbrake, which invokes autostop, or if I don't wan't to use autostop I press lightly on the footbrake.
There are those here who will curse me as a brakelight dazzler !
I do the same
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There have been long debates about this before and no doubt this will spark another!
Personally I normally leave it in D and use the footbrake, which invokes autostop, or if I don't wan't to use autostop I press lightly on the footbrake.
There are those here who will curse me as a brakelight dazzler !
So do I, unless it's a long wait, when I go into P and switch off.
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There are those here who will curse me as a brakelight dazzler !
Only after dark Mike :). Once the face lift HR-V is out I will be joining the clan.
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I was anxious about this before I got my CVT and that was my first automatic (apart from hire cars in the USA). Using the footbrake is now second nature. Initially I was tensing the right leg and I started to yearn for my old routine - into neutral, handbrake on - at lights.
But I've gradually relaxed a bit and it's second nature to me now. I think at a longer stop I would be park and engine off (level crossings etc).
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Ideally for a long wait one would move to neutral and apply the handbrake. Unfortunately the idle stop that Honda implemented will only keep the engine off while you keep the brake pedal depressed. That being the case unless you're looking at a very long stop (like being in a traffic jam) you might as well just hold the car on the foot brake and leave it in 'D'.
It's annoying (I used to criticise drivers doing that) but since we have idle stop on our cars we ought to try and gain the most from it. Plus everyone else is doing it (even, presumably manual drivers) so, meh.
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Fortunately the MK3 jazz has a torque converter CVT so it can stay stopped in drive or creep at low speed indefinitely without any risk of damage. Unlike some other transmissions.
This may be of interest.
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Am I the only one to leave it in D and hold it on the handbrake? I find it uncomfortable to sit with my foot on the foot brake. I always turn auto stop off as I don’t like how it’s implemented on a cvt
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Am I the only one to leave it in D and hold it on the handbrake? I find it uncomfortable to sit with my foot on the foot brake. I always turn auto stop off as I don’t like how it’s implemented on a cvt
I'd like the option to go into neutral, handbrake on and still have the auto idle stop functioning. On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
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Am I the only one to leave it in D and hold it on the handbrake? I find it uncomfortable to sit with my foot on the foot brake. I always turn auto stop off as I don’t like how it’s implemented on a cvt
I'd like the option to go into neutral, handbrake on and still have the auto idle stop functioning. On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
I think auto start involves the clutch pedal in a manual car.
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On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
Perhaps with an automatic in gear the car would surge forward as soon as the engine started, not a good idea if in stationary traffic.
Vic.
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On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
Perhaps with an automatic in gear the car would surge forward as soon as the engine started, not a good idea if in stationary traffic.
Vic.
This is probably the reason it works like it does as the car automatically holds the brakes until the engine is restarted
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On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
Perhaps with an automatic in gear the car would surge forward as soon as the engine started, not a good idea if in stationary traffic.
Vic.
This is probably the reason it works like it does as the car automatically holds the brakes until the engine is restarted
Really? Neither my manual or CVT cars have any brake hold other than hill start assist unless you have a foot planted on the brake pedal.
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On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
Perhaps with an automatic in gear the car would surge forward as soon as the engine started, not a good idea if in stationary traffic.
Vic.
This is probably the reason it works like it does as the car automatically holds the brakes until the engine is restarted
Really? Neither my manual or CVT cars have any brake hold other than hill start assist unless you have a foot planted on the brake pedal.
Yeah it’s in the manual for the cvt only
■ Starting Assist Brake Function
Briefly keeps the brake applied after releasing the brake pedal to restart the engine. This can keep your vehicle from unexpectedly moving while on an incline
Unless it only does it on an incline?
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On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
Perhaps with an automatic in gear the car would surge forward as soon as the engine started, not a good idea if in stationary traffic.
Vic.
This is probably the reason it works like it does as the car automatically holds the brakes until the engine is restarted
Really? Neither my manual or CVT cars have any brake hold other than hill start assist unless you have a foot planted on the brake pedal.
Yeah it’s in the manual for the cvt only
■ Starting Assist Brake Function
Briefly keeps the brake applied after releasing the brake pedal to restart the engine. This can keep your vehicle from unexpectedly moving while on an incline
Unless it only does it on an incline?
That's my experience, wheel rotation is one of the things which will start the engine in a manual car.
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Honda's inplementation of the start / stop on the automatic is really annoying, surely there must be a way that system could be made to remain in stop mode when the hand brake is applied and the foot brake is released.
It can be uncomfortable sitting tehre pressing on the foot break, although that is what I end up ahving to do, uless there is a long wait then I put the car in neutral with the hand brake on and if neseccary turn the ignition off.
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I think the only way round it csp is to dispense with Auto Stop. In that way, it's stop, into neutral, handbrake on, engine ticking over, back into drive, handbrake off and away you go.
Tried this for a bit and it became a faff. I think it's a bit of a trade off. In stop/start traffic, the auto is an absolute boon.
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Honda's inplementation of the start / stop on the automatic is really annoying, surely there must be a way that system could be made to remain in stop mode when the hand brake is applied and the foot brake is released.
It can be uncomfortable sitting tehre pressing on the foot break, although that is what I end up ahving to do, uless there is a long wait then I put the car in neutral the hand brake on and if neseccary turn the ignition off.
It's not worth too much effort outwit the stop start system unless you are an economy extremist, the car will only use about 0.2 litres of fuel an hour when idling and it keeps the Aircon on and the battery topped up.
The stop start is only there to improve the laboratory test figures for marketing and manufacturers tax management. It does little in real life driving conditions. I frequently turn mine off, but you don't buy a 1.5 if you are worried about economy.
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The stop start is only there to improve the laboratory test figures for marketing and manufacturers tax management. It does little in real life driving conditions. I frequently turn mine off, but you don't buy a 1.5 if you are worried about economy.
I agree I think Honda know their system is flawed thats why they make it so easy to turn off I just wish it would stay off
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Am I the only one to leave it in D and hold it on the handbrake? I find it uncomfortable to sit with my foot on the foot brake. I always turn auto stop off as I don’t like how it’s implemented on a cvt
I'd like the option to go into neutral, handbrake on and still have the auto idle stop functioning. On the manual the car starts on depressing the accelerator. Why can't that be done on the CVT? There is obviously a reason but I can't work out what it is.
A question I have asked many times. I even asked Honda in an email. They helpfully replied by explaining how idle stop works. It might make sense if there was no switch on the gear lever as then moving out of neutral wouldn't start the engine and I can see some drivers being confused. But there is such a switch. You can select 'N' without the engine restarting but selecting anything after that will restart the engine anyway.
Interestingly it's not just Honda that have done this. Several other manufacturers have done the same, though not all. There are some automatics that don't require you to keep the foot brake pressed to maintain idle stop.
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As you may have guessed I like this guy, he talks a lot of down to earth sense about things motoring.
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Meh. I think he has some valid points but the bit about the engine idling for 10 minutes before it's consumed as much fuel as restarting it requires is crap. That's based on the erroneous assumption that starting the engine requires a significant number of revolutions and is typically the result of people who haven't experienced the system in use. Idle stop restarts the engine almost immediately - within a single revolution. The electrical drain is negligible and various studies have suggested that having the engine off for only two or three seconds is enough to make it worthwhile.
Does it save money? Possibly not. There is a cost to designing the engine such that it can handle the wear and tear, including a special design of battery and that cost is added to the cost of the vehicle. However it likely does over the lifetime of a vehicle save fuel and reduce pollution.
And if anyone is finding that it interferes with their driving then they should learn how to drive. I have no difficulty in anticipating when a light is going to change or when the traffic in front is starting to move and it's easy to lift my foot off the brake in time to have the engine ready and willing when I want it. If it's unclear how long I will be stationary I can use a lighter pressure that brings the vehicle to a halt but does not activate idle stop. It's called 'understanding how to operate your vehicle properly'. The only times (very rare) when it causes a problem is if I fail to correctly judge roundabout flow and come to a stop when not required. Very occasionally then it will catch me out. That's my fault. I'm not perfect.
So the way I view it: It's reduces pollution. It probably reduces the overall environmental impact of my car ownership (a little bit). It probably doesn't save me money but since I have to pay for it anyway I ought to utilise it.
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And if anyone is finding that it interferes with their driving then they should learn how to drive. I have no difficulty in anticipating when a light is going to change or when the traffic in front is starting to move and it's easy to lift my foot off the brake in time to have the engine ready and willing when I want it. If it's unclear how long I will be stationary I can use a lighter pressure that brings the vehicle to a halt but does not activate idle stop. It's called 'understanding how to operate your vehicle properly'. The only times (very rare) when it causes a problem is if I fail to correctly judge roundabout flow and come to a stop when not required. Very occasionally then it will catch me out. That's my fault. I'm not perfect.
So the way I view it: It's reduces pollution. It probably reduces the overall environmental impact of my car ownership (a little bit). It probably doesn't save me money but since I have to pay for it anyway I ought to utilise it.
Commuting 2 hours a day in today’s traffic is bad enough without worrying about how hard to brake just to keep the engine running. I prefer to concentrate on driving rather than on working around a badly thought out system
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And if anyone is finding that it interferes with their driving then they should learn how to drive. I have no difficulty in anticipating when a light is going to change or when the traffic in front is starting to move and it's easy to lift my foot off the brake in time to have the engine ready and willing when I want it. If it's unclear how long I will be stationary I can use a lighter pressure that brings the vehicle to a halt but does not activate idle stop. It's called 'understanding how to operate your vehicle properly'. The only times (very rare) when it causes a problem is if I fail to correctly judge roundabout flow and come to a stop when not required. Very occasionally then it will catch me out. That's my fault. I'm not perfect.
So the way I view it: It's reduces pollution. It probably reduces the overall environmental impact of my car ownership (a little bit). It probably doesn't save me money but since I have to pay for it anyway I ought to utilise it.
Commuting 2 hours a day in today’s traffic is bad enough without worrying about how hard to brake just to keep the engine running. I prefer to concentrate on driving rather than on working around a badly thought out system
I find it pretty much instinctive, not requiring a lot of thought.
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And if anyone is finding that it interferes with their driving then they should learn how to drive. I have no difficulty in anticipating when a light is going to change or when the traffic in front is starting to move and it's easy to lift my foot off the brake in time to have the engine ready and willing when I want it. If it's unclear how long I will be stationary I can use a lighter pressure that brings the vehicle to a halt but does not activate idle stop. It's called 'understanding how to operate your vehicle properly'. The only times (very rare) when it causes a problem is if I fail to correctly judge roundabout flow and come to a stop when not required. Very occasionally then it will catch me out. That's my fault. I'm not perfect.
So the way I view it: It's reduces pollution. It probably reduces the overall environmental impact of my car ownership (a little bit). It probably doesn't save me money but since I have to pay for it anyway I ought to utilise it.
Commuting 2 hours a day in today’s traffic is bad enough without worrying about how hard to brake just to keep the engine running. I prefer to concentrate on driving rather than on working around a badly thought out system
I agree, why bother to work (fight) the system, life's too short, just turn the damned thing off!
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And if anyone is finding that it interferes with their driving then they should learn how to drive. I have no difficulty in anticipating when a light is going to change or when the traffic in front is starting to move and it's easy to lift my foot off the brake in time to have the engine ready and willing when I want it. If it's unclear how long I will be stationary I can use a lighter pressure that brings the vehicle to a halt but does not activate idle stop. It's called 'understanding how to operate your vehicle properly'. The only times (very rare) when it causes a problem is if I fail to correctly judge roundabout flow and come to a stop when not required. Very occasionally then it will catch me out. That's my fault. I'm not perfect.
So the way I view it: It's reduces pollution. It probably reduces the overall environmental impact of my car ownership (a little bit). It probably doesn't save me money but since I have to pay for it anyway I ought to utilise it.
Commuting 2 hours a day in today’s traffic is bad enough without worrying about how hard to brake just to keep the engine running. I prefer to concentrate on driving rather than on working around a badly thought out system
I find it pretty much instinctive, not requiring a lot of thought.
Exactly. All cars have their foibles. A good driver learns their particular vehicle's characteristics and adapts to them. If you're already good at anticipating traffic ebb and flow it's not all that hard to factor that into your use of the brake pedal.
It's only difficult if you're the kind of driver that operates their vehicle on automatic and doesn't really know what's going on around you.
I've always thought that most drivers see driving as a boring interlude in between point 'A' and 'B'. They zone out or think about other things. When I get behind the wheel of a car everything else fades into the background. I become a driver. Nothing else matters until I reach my destination. In fact that's probably why I love driving. It's fascinating and interesting and during that time nothing else in my life matters. It's an opportunity to focus on the hear and now without the distractions of modern living.
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Don't get too carried away with self admiration, a car is just a transportation tool. OK it is satisfying to use a tool with skill but it is not difficult.
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Don't get too carried away with self admiration, a car is just a transportation tool. OK it is satisfying to use a tool with skill but it is not difficult.
And yet you turn a system off (at some expense to yourself) because you are unable/unwilling to learn how to use it.
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Don't get too carried away with self admiration, a car is just a transportation tool. OK it is satisfying to use a tool with skill but it is not difficult.
And yet you turn a system off (at some expense to yourself) because you are unable/unwilling to learn how to use it.
Quite capable of using and beating it, I choose not to. I don't find a Jazz too much of a problem after a Class one HGV.
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This discussion reminded me of a conversation I had with my brother before buying an automatic. Even before stop start systems (he currently drives a 2017 BMW 4 Series) it was his routine to hold the car on the footbrake and in drive in almost every stop situation apart from long stops when he would go into park. He had always done this so couldn't really see my issue.
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I can't see what all the fuss is about regarding stop/start.
It is always switched on in my car, but it almost never activates, simply because the pedal pressure is too low.
I was always taught to 'feather' the brake pedal in the final yard or so, coming to a stop, to avoid jolting my passengers.
Consequently the pedal pressure is reduced and so the stop/start does not activate.
On the odd occasion when is does, the restart is instant and virtually not noticeable.
However if I am to be stopped, more than a few seconds, I drop into neutral and use the handbrake, though I suspect that this is not taught nowadays, judging by the sea of brake-lights at most junctions!
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I can't see what all the fuss is about regarding stop/start.
I agree, its much like the fuss about auto lights and / or wipers. It just proves that car is basically a good design and there are only trivial things to complain about that are really only personal preferences.
I think the petrol filler cover is far too heavy to operate being metal and should be made of plastic. :'(
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However if I am to be stopped, more than a few seconds, I drop into neutral and use the handbrake, though I suspect that this is not taught nowadays, judging by the sea of brake-lights at most junctions!
Whoever is at the back of a queue should keep the brake lights on to warn anyone approaching. For the rest of the vehicles it shouldn't be too difficult to add a little more technology in the form of a rear-facing camera (many now have them) and apply the simple logic "I'm stopped, I can see the vehicle behind is stopped, therefore switch off (or dim) the brake lights". Then we wouldn't need to grumble about the auto-stop and the brake lights on an automatic.
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My old BMC Austin 1800, built in 1968, had rear brake lights that reduced their intensity if the rest of the lights were on, so they were not as bright after dark as in broad daylight.
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My old BMC Austin 1800, built in 1968, had rear brake lights that reduced their intensity if the rest of the lights were on, so they were not as bright after dark as in broad daylight.
My old Triumph 2000 did the same.
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In today's traffic you need LED eye burners, especially on a motorway in poor visibility. You don't have to look at brake lights when stopped.