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Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Jocko on May 17, 2018, 03:16:54 PM

Title: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 17, 2018, 03:16:54 PM
I filled up with petrol, this morning, and I believe I got short measure at the pump. I went into my local Morrisons, but was unable to use my usual pump. I filled up as usual, noted my mileage and the reading on the Fibometer and my ScanGauge, and thought nothing more of it.
When I returned home, and did the calculations on the spreadsheet, I was very surprised to see I had achieved 46 mpg. This is my worst ever figure, even worse than driving in snow during the "Beast from the East". I double checked all my numbers, and even went back to the car to check I had recorded the correct mileage.
As you all know, I am rather OCD when it comes to mpg figures. 46 mpg could be the real number, except I had easy journeys, the Fibometer was reading 55.8 and the ScanGauge 55.4 mpg. As I have reported elsewhere, both these are usually within 1 or 2%. I have never seen a 20% error.
This afternoon I have been for a gentle 85 mile trip, the Fibometer (reset at top up) says 68 mpg and a check on my return found all wheels cold and all tyre pressures showing 36 psig. If the petrol had been leaking out I would have surely smelt something, especially as the car is kept in a garage with carpeting under the car. For the same reason I do not suspect that petrol has been siphoned off.
The other pump on the island I used was out of order, not suspicious at the time but ringing alarm bells now. I have contacted the store, making my concerns known, and also contacted Trading Standards. I will keep you informed.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: jazzway on May 17, 2018, 07:55:44 PM
Weird... And was it about same amount of petrol you usually fill?
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 17, 2018, 08:07:14 PM
I normally wait until the warning light comes on, but I had a trip into Edinburgh, with a crawl home in rush hour traffic, so I filled up early. The price was up since last fill up, but I was still surprised at how much it cost for the fill up. I kept waiting on the pump shutting off and it kept going!
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: jazzway on May 17, 2018, 08:49:02 PM
Could it have something to do with the tyre issue you posted about earlier this month?

… I kept waiting on the pump shutting off and it kept going!
Sounds like you got the liters you payed for.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: sparky Paul on May 17, 2018, 11:56:09 PM
We usually use Morrison's, I had an unusual incident there a few months ago, but this could happen anywhere.

The petrol station was reasonably busy, and there was a chap working on one of the pumps with cones around it, so I was waiting for a free pump. Anyway, he beckoned me towards the pump with a thumbs up and started moving the cones, so I drove up to the pump.

I punched the button to pay at pump, as usual, put the card in and did the business, then checked that the pump showed zero, as I always do. I lifted the nozzle, went towards the car, the pump started up and the meter immediately clocked up an amount of fuel, before I even got the nozzle into the car. I put the nozzle back, and went into the kiosk to let them know.

After a few minutes trying to make them understand what I had seen, and them telling me it wasn't possible, I insisted they came out to look, and the repair man appeared too. I'd been charged for the fuel I hadn't had, and after much head scratching, they suggested I tried it again - and all seemed okay. They took my word for it and gave me the money back for the petrol I hadn't had.

I believe that the man working on the pump hadn't bled the air from the filler pipe before leaving, and certainly hadn't done a test pump.  As soon as the pump started, the fluid compressed the air in the pipework and spun the meter. The bottom line here is - always check it says zero before you squeeze the trigger!
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 18, 2018, 07:17:34 AM
Could it have something to do with the tyre issue you posted about earlier this month?

… I kept waiting on the pump shutting off and it kept going!
Sounds like you got the liters you payed for.
Tyre pressure was never really low, just lower than I like. That was why I check them so often.
What I didn't say was, a full top up for me is normally 7.5 gallons from the light coming on. I once got 7.9 gallons in after running for a couple of days with the light on. Yesterday the gauge had just passed the half way mark and I got 6.5 gallons in! I know petrol gauges are not accurate, but you learn the foibles of your own car, and I know my gauge doesn't drop from there to zero in 50 miles. Nearer 150 miles, in fact.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 22, 2018, 10:35:51 AM
Just received an email from Trading Standards. They are going to test the pump I suspect was faulty.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: sparky Paul on May 22, 2018, 05:55:20 PM
Just received an email from Trading Standards. They are going to test the pump I suspect was faulty.

Hopefully, they will let you know the result. It certainly sounds fishy, I reckon the gauge on our Jazz is reasonably linear.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 25, 2018, 07:15:11 AM
Filled up this morning and figure worked out at 63.4 mpg, only marginally better than the on board display. That is the sort of figure I was expecting last time, as I had sympathetic journeys, warm weather and reasonable traffic.
I still think I got short measure last fill up.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: guest5079 on May 25, 2018, 10:01:26 AM
I do not check the mileage/consumption very scientifically, usually just fill up as far as I can and look at the mileage from the last fill.
I am not claiming any naughties but on two different occasions I have filled up at Morrisons in Tavistock and not got as good a mileage as when I fill at a BP garage that I normally use locally. I put it down to different sensitivities of the cut out on the nozzle.         Coincidence? that it is Morrisons
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: culzean on May 25, 2018, 10:10:27 AM
I do not check the mileage/consumption very scientifically, usually just fill up as far as I can and look at the mileage from the last fill.
I am not claiming any naughties but on two different occasions I have filled up at Morrisons in Tavistock and not got as good a mileage as when I fill at a BP garage that I normally use locally. I put it down to different sensitivities of the cut out on the nozzle.         Coincidence? that it is Morrisons

Could be the difference in quality / additives between supermarket fuel and BP ?  (duck)
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 25, 2018, 11:31:46 AM
You can put auntyneddy's down to fuel quality, but I always fill up at Morrisons, just last time was a different pump.
If it had been the other way round, and better mpg last time, you could say the pump cut out early, but it put too much fuel in! I believe there was no way I could have squeezed the amount of fuel in, that the pump said, even if I had dribbled it in until it overflowed.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: peteo48 on May 25, 2018, 02:30:24 PM
I do not check the mileage/consumption very scientifically, usually just fill up as far as I can and look at the mileage from the last fill.
I am not claiming any naughties but on two different occasions I have filled up at Morrisons in Tavistock and not got as good a mileage as when I fill at a BP garage that I normally use locally. I put it down to different sensitivities of the cut out on the nozzle.         Coincidence? that it is Morrisons

Could be the difference in quality / additives between supermarket fuel and BP ?  (duck)

I'll just open this can of worms lol.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: guest5079 on May 27, 2018, 03:18:15 PM
I cannot comment on quality as I only usually use branded fuel, not for any reason just convenience. The last time I tried Tesco was a fiasco.
Normally one usually goes to the pump that is either available or has the shortest queue, I did this in our local Tesco's and a woman complained I had  jumped the queue. Manager had  a go at my Wife and all in all not very pleasant. So we went to the 'desk' and complained only to be told by the Lady customer helper? I don't get fuel here for the same reason.
It seems you had to queue in a line and the front of the queue went to the next available pump. The next in line had to wait in the single line queue until a pump became available and so on. This is the  only FILLING station that I have ever patronised in nearly 60 yrs of motoring that I have come across the cock a maney idea.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: John Ratsey on May 27, 2018, 09:24:04 PM
I do not check the mileage/consumption very scientifically, usually just fill up as far as I can and look at the mileage from the last fill.
I am not claiming any naughties but on two different occasions I have filled up at Morrisons in Tavistock and not got as good a mileage as when I fill at a BP garage that I normally use locally. I put it down to different sensitivities of the cut out on the nozzle.         Coincidence? that it is Morrisons

Could be the difference in quality / additives between supermarket fuel and BP ?  (duck)

I'll just open this can of worms lol.
Maybe a tot of Redex will rectify any deficiencies of supermarket petrol. At the moment Wilko is selling 250 ml of Redex for £2 (normally £4).
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 27, 2018, 09:54:05 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with supermarket petrol. I have used it, almost exclusively, for the last 30+ years.

https://www.allstarcard.co.uk/this-matters-fuel/fleet-news/supermarket-fuel/ (https://www.allstarcard.co.uk/this-matters-fuel/fleet-news/supermarket-fuel/)
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: ColinB on May 28, 2018, 08:24:40 AM
It seems you had to queue in a line and the front of the queue went to the next available pump. The next in line had to wait in the single line queue until a pump became available and so on.
This might be acceptable if they policed it so that the queue moved efficiently. It’s particularly infuriating when the car at the front insists on waiting for a pump on the same side of their car as the filling point. There is no reason for this, hoses are long enough to reach across to the other side of the car without dragging across the bodywork, but yet these idiots will hold everyone up unnecessarily despite there being pumps available. The same folks are usually the ones who create further delay by queuing to pay at the cash desk when “Pay at Pump” is available. Grrr !
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: culzean on May 28, 2018, 09:29:03 AM
It seems you had to queue in a line and the front of the queue went to the next available pump. The next in line had to wait in the single line queue until a pump became available and so on.
This might be acceptable if they policed it so that the queue moved efficiently. It’s particularly infuriating when the car at the front insists on waiting for a pump on the same side of their car as the filling point. There is no reason for this, hoses are long enough to reach across to the other side of the car without dragging across the bodywork, but yet these idiots will hold everyone up unnecessarily despite there being pumps available. The same folks are usually the ones who create further delay by queuing to pay at the cash desk when “Pay at Pump” is available. Grrr !

Be surprised how many people don't realise pump hoses are long enough to reach both sides,  also trouble with queuing in a single line is that some traffic ends up on the approach road.   There have been so many cases of card fraud at service stations that I usually pay cash these days.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 30, 2018, 06:55:05 AM
Received the following email from Fife Trading Standards.

I get in touch to confirm that we tested Pump 3 U/L at Morrison’s Kirkcaldy with our calibrated measures.
It was found to be operating normally and delivering fuel well within the permitted limits of error for this type of equipment.
The operation of Pump 4 would not normally affect that of Pump 3 but we checked the onsite records. These confirm that no repair work has been carried out to this dispenser recently – pump closures can take place if there is a fuel spillage or the card reader is faulty, I am advised.
We will continue to monitor for any further complaints and revisit the site if further testing is required.
We haven’t received any other complaints to date.
For thoroughness, I have still to check the design documentation for this type of pump but this is unlikely to help account for your fuel  consumption discrepancy (If I do find an issue I will get back in touch).
On the evidence I have to date, I can only advise that any discrepancy in fuel consumption figures may come from a source other than the fuel dispenser.


At least they checked and kept me informed.
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: sparky Paul on May 30, 2018, 08:40:33 AM
At least they checked and kept me informed.

Indeed. I know that they do follow up these reports.

It's a bit disappointing that they didn't find something, though not that surprising given that they haven't had any other complaints. The implication that the issue probably lies with your car, or your maths, rather rubs salt into the wound too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a one-off incident similar to the one I had with our local Morrisons.

It's the feeling that you've been diddled that gets to me the most.  :(
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: Jocko on May 30, 2018, 10:03:42 AM
It's the feeling that you've been diddled that gets to me the most.
It is not the money that bothers me. It is the thought that 2 years of figures are corrupted, however slight. I am a bit OCD about my fuel consumption figures. I have been calculating and recording them, in one form or another, since 1978. !!!
Title: Re: Short measure at the pump?
Post by: peteo48 on May 30, 2018, 10:08:04 AM
It's the feeling that you've been diddled that gets to me the most.
It is not the money that bothers me. It is the thought that 2 years of figures are corrupted, however slight. I am a bit OCD about my fuel consumption figures. I have been calculating and recording them, in one form or another, since 1978. !!!

Me too! I wonder if we could get treatment for this ;D