Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 694529 times)

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #405 on: November 03, 2017, 02:24:33 PM »
They do seem to be struggling to get the model 3 out and the new 2018 Nissan Leaf looks a much better bet for people at the lower end of the market.

I've decided I'll be a laggard in the EV take up - after all I've got 23 years left and I'll be in my 90s when the ban on ICEs comes in (assuming I live that long!!!)

Yeah,  the new Leaf is a much better looking car than their strange offerings up to now, and with a usable range.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/100743/new-nissan-leaf-2018-prices-specs-release-date

I think most people are like you,  waiting for prices to drop,  range to increase and charging infrastructure to standardise and get its ars3 into gear before they make a switch,  with technology changing so fast and no sign of being able to upgrade older models to new (larger) battery capacity people are wary of buying something that will be out of date and well down in value in a year or two.

With their production failing and the company continuing to haemorrhage (taxpayer and shareholder) money Tesla may not be in a position to roll out more charging stations at the rate they have been.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #406 on: November 03, 2017, 02:43:14 PM »
Very good point about the battery upgrade. The manufacturers are reluctant to allow this. There are also myths being perpetrated that it will be possible to replace dud cells in a degrading battery. I have looked into this in some detail. I have posed the question on a number of EV forums along the lines of "Do you know anybody who has replaced a dud cell in a battery." The silence is deafening. The best answer I got came from somebody who said that when he had his battery analysed all the cells were degrading at a similar rate so replacing one or two would be pointless.

There is some way to go before mass adoption. They make a great second car if you have an ICE for longer trips but, as a one car family, they are not for me as yet or even close if I'm honest.

guest5079

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #407 on: November 04, 2017, 10:51:55 AM »
When I started this thread I had no idea of the interest it would bring. Has any other thread managed 28 pages and still going.
Perhaps motor manufacturers might do well to read Club Jazz on the subject of EV's. might give them some pointers.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #408 on: November 04, 2017, 01:08:55 PM »
Very good point about the battery upgrade. The manufacturers are reluctant to allow this. There are also myths being perpetrated that it will be possible to replace dud cells in a degrading battery. I have looked into this in some detail. I have posed the question on a number of EV forums along the lines of "Do you know anybody who has replaced a dud cell in a battery." The silence is deafening. The best answer I got came from somebody who said that when he had his battery analysed all the cells were degrading at a similar rate so replacing one or two would be pointless.

There is some way to go before mass adoption. They make a great second car if you have an ICE for longer trips but, as a one car family, they are not for me as yet or even close if I'm honest.

http://www.hybridbatterysolutions.co.uk/prices-and-services/   is one of many repairers..Google will find many more. 

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #409 on: November 04, 2017, 05:29:59 PM »
I notice this is specifically for Toyota Hybrids. Of course there are a lot of these on the road so after market providers have a big customer base. It may be, in time, a similar set up arises for EVs but, at the moment, a lot of people seem to be putting up with the loss of battery capacity. The value of a car with lost capacity drops like a stone. I'm seeing some Leafs at around the £3,000 mark now - not many and not at dealers but shows that an old Leaf is not worth a lot.

One thing that I have gleaned from lurking round the EV scene is that Tesla batteries seem to be holding up better but they, unlike the Leaf, have active battery cooling.

The advice seems to be that you need to build in battery degradation into any purchase so that probably explains why most Leafs are bought on PCP deals. If you are buying second hand the advice seems to be to ask yourself how long you want to keep the car and whether you could still cope with, say, 75% capacity after 6 years or so. This means a car that could do 80 miles would be down to 60 and, possibly, below 50 in bad weather.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #410 on: November 04, 2017, 08:03:00 PM »
Many Leafs are cheap because you still have to lease the batteries. Prices rise if you buy one with owned batteries.

The repairers for Toyota are mirrored  - in a smaller scale - for other hybrids. Not that there are many of them..

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #411 on: November 04, 2017, 09:38:09 PM »
Old Leafs with battery seem to start around the £5-6K mark, unless you are prepared to delve into salvage auctions... which wouldn't put me off at the right price.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #412 on: November 04, 2017, 10:54:03 PM »
Old Leafs with battery seem to start around the £5-6K mark, unless you are prepared to delve into salvage auctions... which wouldn't put me off at the right price.

I have seen some discussion around buying an old Leaf with a degraded battery and putting a new one in for, I think, around £5,000 thus giving you a car with decent capability for around £7,000 to £8,000.

guest1372

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #413 on: November 05, 2017, 06:14:07 PM »
Still wouldn't drive an EV through a ford.
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #414 on: November 05, 2017, 06:51:17 PM »
Still wouldn't drive an EV through a ford.
I, after over 50 years of driving, have only once encountered a ford. Depends where you live I suppose. Flooding, an increasingly more common occurrence, would be a bigger worry.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #415 on: November 06, 2017, 07:11:50 AM »
E.on has announced it is going to expand its charging network across Europe by a further 10,000 charging points by 2020. These will include the UK. They will be rapid chargers, capable of 150 kW (equivalent to the Tesla Supercharger) and with a modular upgrade option for 350 kW available.
They have also released a cool video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaC7QCZvZ74&list=PLLmBxZJyM4N82bkFkwWSbGgUiPkVMuVBf&t=3

This comes on top of BMW, Daimler, VW Group and Ford announced their plans to add 400 ultra-fast chargers by 2020 as well. That is a drop in the ocean, but if the four are working together it at least means some standardisation in connectivity.

Add to that that Chris Grayling is expected to announce later today that legislation should be in place, by 2021, permitting self driving vehicles to be used on UK roads.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #416 on: November 06, 2017, 08:48:05 AM »
Still wouldn't drive an EV through a ford.
I, after over 50 years of driving, have only once encountered a ford. Depends where you live I suppose. Flooding, an increasingly more common occurrence, would be a bigger worry.

When driving through flood (or even parked up on a flooded area) and electricity and water meet the resultant gassing would re-float the car,  and any passing hydrogen car could get a free fill-up,  after which the EV would either explode from a spark in the electrics or the occupants would be subject to 'electric chair' treatment LOL

Better make sure they don't install charging points on flood plains or flood prone areas (which unfortunately includes most areas in UK where houses are built).

I'm assuming that any EV caught in a flood would have its battery and inverters and any electronics 'below the water level' well and truly fried - ££££££££'s
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 09:13:33 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest5079

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #417 on: November 06, 2017, 09:39:50 AM »
Has the Fire Service sorted out their concerns over putting water on an EV? Given Culzean's comment about water plus other = hydrogen I am not surprised Trumpton is concerned.
Sorry no disrespect to the Fire service. Working alongside retained Fire persons we were Plod and they were Trumpton.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #418 on: November 06, 2017, 09:44:27 AM »
I can drive through a small ford locally once a week when travelling to our Beekeeping Association Apiary. It's not very deep in dry weather but over 30cms in wet. I choose not to as frequent immersion in water can lead to water ingress into the wheel bearings - bad news. (Citroen Xantias had gearbox water ingress in floods!).. Water in car electrics usually means future contact corrosion and multiple electronic problems.. run away job.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #419 on: November 06, 2017, 10:00:01 AM »
Has the Fire Service sorted out their concerns over putting water on an EV? Given Culzean's comment about water plus other = hydrogen I am not surprised Trumpton is concerned.
Sorry no disrespect to the Fire service. Working alongside retained Fire persons we were Plod and they were Trumpton.

Most EV batteries work at 350V DC and above,  bearing in mind that anything over 48volts is considered a shock hazard in IEEE electrical regs no wonder Trumpton is a bit wary of dealing with EV,  also when an EV crashes the amount of energy stored is well capable of causing an explosion,  and unlike petrol you can't wash electricity away with water or foam.  The leakage of flammable Ethylene Glycol coolant (basically alcohol) from battery cooling systems can feed the flames.

https://jalopnik.com/watch-volunteer-firefighters-in-austria-extinguish-a-fi-1819665352

It is not only shock hazard,  fire fighters have to wear breathing apparatus to deal with the toxic cocktail of gasses given off by Lithium battery fire,  and Tesla advise keeping vehicle in quarantine for minimum 48 hours after crash to make sure other fires / explosions do not spontaneously happen - scary stuff.

Why Tesla don't fit an 'isolate on impact' device I don't know,  normal cars have a device to disconnect fuel pump power supply in event of a crash.   I wonder if the not-so-well known (it has been hushed up) propensity for Tesla cars to have suspension failure resulting in wheels randomly falling off was the cause of this crash,  or a failure of autopilot software.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 10:36:04 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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