Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 694612 times)

guest5079

  • Guest
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #165 on: September 15, 2017, 02:42:54 PM »
I am getting old and the brain cells are rusty but can you with chaps explain the ad I saw recently.
Good old VW. It was an ad for a Golf GTE presumably GT electric. Unfortunately the TV was on mute but at the end came up 'petrol+electric' speed ( I think it was speed).
The ad appeared to suggest the car had a petrol engine and an electric motor.
As I said I did not hear the blurb ( most ads are muted in our house) but what is the point of an  petrol engine which produces electricity to power an electric motor to give speed.
Clearly i have missed something but as VW have previous for conning the world perhaps this is another German master race idea to blind us with science. .

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #166 on: September 15, 2017, 03:11:27 PM »
It is not unusual to use both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine. That is what the current Formula One use to give added power. If you have a 150 bhp engine driving the front wheels and a 50 bhp engine driving the rear you effectively have a 200 bhp vehicle. The batteries can be charged by regenerative braking (as per F1) as well as using the engine to charge the battery when you don't need the 150 bhp. Or, in the case of a PHEV, you charge it, mainly, from the mains.
It would appear that the GTE is a pretty conventional Plug In Hybrid. The electric motor is also used to give low down torque, combining with the ICE when it is required for more grunt. This is similar to the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

VicW

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 07 Plate Civic 1.8 i-Shift.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #167 on: September 15, 2017, 03:33:14 PM »
It is not unusual to use both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine.

Isn't this what the Jazz Hybrid, Honda Insight, Toyota Prius plus others did or do?

Vic.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #168 on: September 15, 2017, 03:55:05 PM »
It is not unusual to use both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine.

Isn't this what the Jazz Hybrid, Honda Insight, Toyota Prius plus others did or do?

Vic.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/long-term-tests/bmw/bmw-i3-range-extender-2017-long-term-test-review/

BMW i3 has a range extender engine to top up its 100 mile range,  I think it is an option - my joke about city people without access to home charging using a Honda mobile generator to charge the battery may not have been too wide of the mark after all.  The i3 is pretty porky at 1440KG,  no wonder they had to use carbon fibre, if I remmber correctly the Jazz is around 400KG lighter.   Cost from factory of i3 is best part of £37,000 (before taking off around £5K plug-in grant courtesy of UK taxpayer LOL) - you need to save a lot of fuel to justify that price - don't know if you lease the battery though.

Anything with 'hybrid' in the name will be an ICE + leccy motor / battery setup.

Even the flagship BMW i8 is not immune to plummeting residuals,  look in the link above and nearly new cars are available over £30K less than new (£100K whew !!) cost.  Average mpg on 110 mile motorway commute was 35mpg.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 04:54:10 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #169 on: September 15, 2017, 04:05:13 PM »
Here's an illustration of what is still wrong with the charging network for pure EVs. My wife's brother-in-law is over from South Africa and staying with his son and his wife in Rotherham. We are popping over to see him on Sunday - 140 mile round trip. This has just been arranged this lunchtime. Check on zap map and there are no chargers on either of the main Manchester to Sheffield routes (snake and Woodhead passes). This is a trip arranged at short notice and one that a Nissan Leaf couldn't do without a huge amount of faffing. Yes you could put a few miles on by using a plug at the destination but only a few. You'd then have to drive into the town centre and sit in a council car park for 40 minutes on a wet Sunday afternoon.

The infrastructure is still a joke and will remain a joke until charge points are as common as petrol pumps. EV an ideal second car at the moment but, as your only vehicle? No - not yet.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #170 on: September 15, 2017, 04:13:09 PM »
The infrastructure is still a joke and will remain a joke until charge points are as common as petrol pumps. EV an ideal second car at the moment but, as your only vehicle? No - not yet.

Charge points need to be much more common than petrol pumps, a single petrol pump can easily service over 10 cars and hour (a normal garage with say 10 pumps = say 70 to 80 cars an hour to allow for queuing to pay and waiting for other cars to move),  a single EV charge point 1 car per hour at a push (an average UK EV charging point with a couple of outlets = 2 cars an hour, but sometimes if two cars plug in at same time charging current is halved - even with a Tesla supercharger,  so a 1 hour charge now becomes a 2 hour charge to get same range ) - and what is worse if your EV runs out of fuel on the road you can't stop a passing car and get a lift to nearest garage for a can of fuel, or ring your mate to bring one out - when I was an apprentice I was sent to stores for a 'box of amps' - that is what you will need with an EV,  the AA towing a big battery around.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 04:28:29 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #171 on: September 15, 2017, 04:59:14 PM »
The currently available EVs, with the exception of the Tesla, are not suitable for long distance journeys. However, range is being extended all the time and battery/charging technology is improving at a phenomenal rate. EVs may never be a replacement for ICE cars, for every occasion. A group of people will never be able to jump into a car at Land's End and drive non stop to John O Groats by sharing the driving and only stopping for the toilet and fuel. But how many people do that. An EV with 300 mile range and overnight charging would suit my driving requirements, and probably most peoples personal motoring. Driving for an eight hour day at 70 mph would require 560 mile range. No one, sales rep or other, would ever need to do that (or should be allowed to do that). The current Tesla Model S 100D currently boasts 420 miles. 560 miles is not that far off.

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #172 on: September 15, 2017, 05:24:55 PM »
In terms of charge points you might not need as many points as petrol or diesel pumps because most charging will be done at home but you certainly need the spread.

I agree with Jocko that you will see improvements in battery technology but this will need to filter down below the sorts of prices that Tesla charges for a car albeit an upmarket one. I think that's why the deadline - 2040 - is about right.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #173 on: September 15, 2017, 06:55:11 PM »
I am in my 70th year and I firmly believe that electric cars for the masses will take off in my lifetime.

VicW

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 07 Plate Civic 1.8 i-Shift.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #174 on: September 15, 2017, 07:42:50 PM »
Nobody has yet answered the question how EV owners with no off street parking are going to charge their cars.
I don't think that the government has given this problem a thought either, remember they don't live in the real world along with the rest of us.
Don't think for one minute the local authorities are going to line the streets with charging points the cost would be horrendous.
How many millions of cars are there in this country, where is the electricity coming from to charge them all?
What will the government introduce to take the place of petrol/diesel tax?
An electric HGV doing 400 miles a day, I don't think so.

Vic.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #175 on: September 15, 2017, 07:47:30 PM »

VicW

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1441
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 07 Plate Civic 1.8 i-Shift.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #176 on: September 15, 2017, 08:05:48 PM »
And the special charging points for all these millions of HGV's?

Vic.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #177 on: September 15, 2017, 08:13:01 PM »
That one uses Hydrogen fuel cells. Fills up like a pump.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #178 on: September 15, 2017, 08:29:24 PM »

An electric HGV doing 400 miles a day, I don't think so.


Read a bit about feasibility of battery powered lorries and due to weight of batteries required you soon reach the point where weight of batteries is eating into the payload big time, that is probably why they use hydrogen cells for that truck in Jacko link.   But with present technology hydrogen can either be made with electrolysing water (inefficient and power intensive) or from cracking hydrocarbons (fossil fuels) - ironically you use the hydrogen and the carbon becomes a waste product.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 08:40:16 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #179 on: September 15, 2017, 08:39:56 PM »
But once we have cheap renewable energy that we can "waste"!

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top