Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often

[Sidot]

I changed my Jazz last September.
Due mainly because the tyre pressure warning system was driving me crazy and my local dealer was unable to offer any solution.
I now have a Jazz SE CVT updated version.
I love the car and it's my third Jazz.
My question is .......
I haven't been near the tyres either to check or calibrate or inflate. I don't due much motorway driving at all. ALL the problems with last car were on the motorway. No matter what was done the message kept coming on.
I have covered 1800 miles.
Should I check the tyre pressures and re  calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?

[mikebore]

Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.

Not sure who that is replying to?  Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.

I mean driving at 70mph for a long period after initializing the system, the calibration happens after you initialize the TPMS. The calibration happens while you are driving as it can only happen when wheels are rotating. ( to initialize the TPMS the handbrake needs to be on).

Ah gotcha! You could be right...I just looked at the manual again and see:

"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)."

The first calibration today had about 15 minutes before getting onto the M25/M1 and the second was all M1, but there is a lot of 50 mph limit, though can't now recall whether that was in the calibration period. The M25 was quite slow so not much at 70.

Any way I have now initialised it again and will not be doing any motorway for a while so will see what happens.

About 60 mins of local low speed motoring in the last two days with no TPMS warning, but wife just went 10 minutes down the A38 dual carriageway and the warning came on again after five minutes.

Going to replace the 37000 mile Michelin on the front to have a matched pair of new Goodyears on the front.

I wonder if the system can cope with two new Goodyears on the front and two old Michelins on the back. Will report back on this.

[peteo48]

I changed my Jazz last September.
Due mainly because the tyre pressure warning system was driving me crazy and my local dealer was unable to offer any solution.
I now have a Jazz SE CVT updated version.
I love the car and it's my third Jazz.
My question is .......
I haven't been near the tyres either to check or calibrate or inflate. I don't due much motorway driving at all. ALL the problems with last car were on the motorway. No matter what was done the message kept coming on.
I have covered 1800 miles.
Should I check the tyre pressures and re  calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?

Your position mirrors my own. I got the car in February last year and I had 3 false alarms within the first 2 to 3 months of ownership. Each time I checked the tyre pressures and each time they were correct. The tyres are all original equipment (Michelin ES) and all are wearing evenly. Each time the alarm went off it was after a short period of motorway driving, each time I recalibrated.

The dealer couldn't find anything wrong but we agreed that, after the next false alarm, I would leave the tyre symbol on (ie not recalibrate) and they would look at it.

The problem has gone away all by itself. I haven't had a single false alarm or any other type of alarm since then. The system is active because a symbol shows when the ignition comes on and then disappears as it should.

To be honest I don't know if the system works or not. I will assume that, if it comes on again, it's a false alarm but I will check the pressures to be on the safe side.

[guest4871]

A common theme here seems to be that the false alarms occur on high speed roads when the tyre pressures will be at their highest.

When checked, presumably when the tyre has cooled, the pressures are correct.

Over time the tyres naturally lose air pressure so that, even on high speed roads, the tyre pressures do not reach the point that the warning is triggered.

This, after all, is a tyre pressure monitoring system.

Nothing says it is only for low pressures. It may also be monitoring, and triggering, for over inflation as well as low pressure. i.e. say + or - 20% of calibrated pressure triggers the alarm.

The calibration instruction seems to indicate that tyre temperature is a factor in the calibration process:

"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)." - [an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve in urban driving!].

[Beaver]

I changed my Jazz last September.
Due mainly because the tyre pressure warning system was driving me crazy and my local dealer was unable to offer any solution.
I now have a Jazz SE CVT updated version.
I love the car and it's my third Jazz.
My question is .......
I haven't been near the tyres either to check or calibrate or inflate. I don't due much motorway driving at all. ALL the problems with last car were on the motorway. No matter what was done the message kept coming on.
I have covered 1800 miles.
Should I check the tyre pressures and re  calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?

I don't have a Jazz with the TPMS, but even if I did, I'd still manually check my TP's regularly.

[mikebore]

A common theme here seems to be that the false alarms occur on high speed roads when the tyre pressures will be at their highest.

When checked, presumably when the tyre has cooled, the pressures are correct.

Over time the tyres naturally lose air pressure so that, even on high speed roads, the tyre pressures do not reach the point that the warning is triggered.

This, after all, is a tyre pressure monitoring system.

Nothing says it is only for low pressures. It may also be monitoring, and triggering, for over inflation as well as low pressure. i.e. say + or - 20% of calibrated pressure triggers the alarm.

The calibration instruction seems to indicate that tyre temperature is a factor in the calibration process:

"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)." - [an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve in urban driving!].

I see your logic, but the recommended pressures surely allow for the increase in pressure when hot?  Surely Honda are not going to recommend pressures which trigger the alarm when hot due to excess pressure?

It is not really a tyre pressure warning system, it is a rolling radius warning system. The software is designed to accept a gradual approximate uniform change of rolling radius as tread wears and pressure reduces. Then trigger the warning if one steps out line compared to the other three.

My belief is that the tendency for new cars to have the problem is more likely to do with the tyres bedding in and the rolling radius changing as they do so.

[Skyrider]

I assumed the 70 mph motorway calibration was a wind up due to the requirement for the handbrake to be on for calibration to be initialised.

[Jocko]

Poster was suggesting that the 30 minutes driving should not be carried out at 70 mph, a suggestion that was confirmed by the official speed range of 25 - 62 mph from Honda.

[peteo48]

Thinking about my 3 false alarms, I bought the car used (it was 10 months old when I bought it). I have no idea how long it had been standing on the dealer's forecourt. Possible, I guess, that the pressures were low. They pumped them up pre delivery and that interfered with the system by altering the rolling radius.

Anyway, the main thing is, the problem has gone away. It was annoying the hell out of me at first but now I'm not that bothered. I spent the almost previous 50 years of car ownership without a system of this sort so I've almost forgotten the car has it.


Still don't trust it though!

[John Ratsey]

Should I check the tyre pressures and re  calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?

As a matter of habit I tend to visually check the tyres before starting a journey. It also appears that the TPMS won't immediately warn of a soft tyre (see https://www.hrvforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=920).

If you do check the tyres with a gauge (which involves slight air loss) and optionally top up pressures then it will be prudent to set the vehicle to re-run the TPMS calibration. Any slight pressure change might be enough to get the TPMS over the warning threshold.

So far, I've only had one TPMS warning and that was driving on a motorway southwards on a sunny afternoon. It was a false alarm and I have to wonder if the sun on one side caused slight extra warming and pressure rise sufficient to get over the threshold.

[mikebore]

Should I check the tyre pressures and re  calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?

It also appears that the TPMS won't immediately warn of a soft tyre (see https://www.hrvforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=920).

When I checked my pressures last Friday after the alert, the tyre with the nail in was 25psi which was 5psi lower than the other three. I wouldn't have thought driving on this would be enough to destroy a tyre. In the linked thread the tyre did reach completely flat, although claimed not driven like that.

So my experience would suggest the TPMS is sensitive enough to prevent destroying a tyre by driving on it underinflated.

[culzean]

When I got rim corrosion it was triggering an alarm at around 25 psi on affected wheel so I have confidence in the system. It has also complained with new tyres fitted on one axle with 5mm difference between old and new, system also notices when I swap from winter to summer tyres and back but speedometer vs GPS on nextbase dashcam hardly any difference.

In the event of self blowout no system is going to have time to warn you, I just eyeball tyres every time I leave or go back to car and check pressures about once a month.

[John Ratsey]

When I checked my pressures last Friday after the alert, the tyre with the nail in was 25psi which was 5psi lower than the other three. I wouldn't have thought driving on this would be enough to destroy a tyre. In the linked thread the tyre did reach completely flat, although claimed not driven like that.

So my experience would suggest the TPMS is sensitive enough to prevent destroying a tyre by driving on it underinflated.

Perhaps there's a minimum speed for TPMS to activate. My understanding from that HR-V link is that the TPMS may not immediately give an alert if a vehicle is being manoeuvered. By the time the vehicle has reached the threshold speed after manoeuvering the damage coud be done if the tyre was flat or very low pressure.

[mikebore]

When I checked my pressures last Friday after the alert, the tyre with the nail in was 25psi which was 5psi lower than the other three. I wouldn't have thought driving on this would be enough to destroy a tyre. In the linked thread the tyre did reach completely flat, although claimed not driven like that.

So my experience would suggest the TPMS is sensitive enough to prevent destroying a tyre by driving on it underinflated.

Perhaps there's a minimum speed for TPMS to activate. My understanding from that HR-V link is that the TPMS may not immediately give an alert if a vehicle is being manoeuvered. By the time the vehicle has reached the threshold speed after manoeuvering the damage coud be done if the tyre was flat or very low pressure.

The manual does indeed say the system does not operate at low speed, but doesn't say what "low" means. Perhaps  the same 25mph min required for calibration? Wouldn't take much driving on a flat tyre at 25 mph to destroy it.

Because we keep referring to the manual I attach the two pages covering the TPMS in my manual:

[John Ratsey]

The manual does indeed say the system does not operate at low speed, but doesn't say what "low" means. Perhaps the same 25mph min required for calibration? Wouldn't take much driving on a flat tyre at 25 mph to destroy it.

Given that TPMS is primarily a safety feature then it is plausible that the threshold speed could be as high as 25 mph. However, I would hope the threshold would be much lower otherwise one could be driving a long way with a soft tyre in urban conditions but only get told about it on getting to a faster road where it might be less convenient, or safe, to stop.