Author Topic: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear  (Read 22177 times)

guest7027

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I don't often drive my car above 30-40 mph (local, short trips on 30/40 roads) however last night I was travelling further afield and was on a few national speed limit roads and found myself accelerating from say 35mph to 50mph whilst in 5th gear which was fine but if I put my foot flat out on the pedal (completely down) there was a strange noise which appeared to be coming from the left hand side of the engine bay (left side when sitting in the car).

I can only describe the noise as a suction noise with a slight tickle/rattle - if I stopped accerlating the noise would disappear. If I didn't put my foot fully down it would not make the noise. Only seems to make the noise if the pedla is flat out and your doing low speed in a high gear and building up to a higher speed.

Also tested this in 4th gear from 25mph - did the same as above, same noise in pedla flat out but if you only tickle the pedal or half engage then no noise to be had.

I have't yet had a chance to test this in my other Jazz to see if it is the same or 'normal' but just wondered if anyone else has noticed this?

Ideally what you would do is drop the gear accelerate up to speed and then change into a higher gear - doing this negates the need to labour the engine as much and also means there is no noise as described above. I often however follow the 'change gear indidcator arrow' and this often tells you to shift into 5th gear at like 30 mph on a flat road which I always find odd but following the is how I found the above noise as when the speed limit switched from 30 to national i didnt bother switching gears from 5th and just thought I will slowly build up speed in 5th anyway.

Hope this makes sense!

Thanks


Jocko

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 01:31:34 PM »
Check there is an element in the air filter.

guest7027

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 01:39:48 PM »
This was my first thought given the origin of the noise seems to be from where the air intake housing is located - I will check this later on, I should hope it has an air filter element inside though... It has full Honda service history with the last service only been done 5 months ago!

I forgot to add in my initial post too that the car has fully warmed up by this point too so can't put it down to the car being cold.


culzean

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 02:27:53 PM »
I can only describe the noise as a suction noise with a slight tickle/rattle - if I stopped accelerating the noise would disappear. If I didn't put my foot fully down it would not make the noise. Only seems to make the noise if the pedla is flat out and your doing low speed in a high gear and building up to a higher speed.

The tinkle / rattle that you describe is classic 'pinking' or 'knocking' (pre-ignition) which happens at low revs in high gear, normally more noticeable on an uphill though - put some 97 RON or higher fuel in and try it again after a few miles to allow petrol to get into system.

Don't know what the 'roar, suction noise' is - you are more likely to get induction roar at high revs, not low.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 02:36:53 PM »
I had a Triumph 2.5 PI which had a lot of intake noise. I checked and found the previous owner had removed the air filter. So I removed the entire intake duct and ended up with six 2" throttle openings gulping in air. What a lovely sound.  Louder than the exhaust. That car was a brute. When I sold it I told the guy that I had to be honest and had had 16 mpg with it. I didn't mention that that was the best I'd had. 8 mpg was nearer the mark. The injectors were shot. The exhaust pipe was blued back to the second box and when you revved hard sparks came out the exhaust. It went through a set of six plugs every day (I carried a box of them with me and sandblaster a set every day I was at work).
We used to drag race our cars at work, and I was second quickest behind a FIAT spots car. Used to burn off Capri GT's regularly.

guest1372

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 02:39:56 PM »
If I didn't put my foot fully down it would not make the noise. Only seems to make the noise if the pedla is flat out and your doing low speed in a high gear and building up to a higher speed.
With modern electronics, it may not open the throttle as much as you demand from pedal position, these days the throttle pedal is meerly a request and can be moderated by the ECU.  Remembering back to manually adjusted cars, you would get 'pinking' in the circumstances you describe.

It would seem the obvious remedy is to drive in the appropriate gear with a light throttle, as you suggest.  I think my throttle pedal has only touched the carpet twice in the last decade (near suicidal crossing of a dual carriageway).
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TG

guest7027

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 02:47:35 PM »
I guess my next question would be 'is pinking normal when driving the car in the manner described or is there something not right?'

The noise is difficult to explain - it was a different engine tone as though it was struggling a bit but not enough to stutter and drop revs, it was though it was surging and trying to suck in more air or power and with this noise there was a slight rattle as thought some stones or pebbles where rattling but in no way would I describe it as a knocking noise.

My car has been back to the honda dealer 7 times in the last 3 months (not for this issue but other things) and I don't get much luck with them fixing things even though I have a 12 month warranty with the car.

Jocko

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 02:55:17 PM »
I regularly pull away from 25 mph, in 5th, with a light throttle. Never experienced any pinking. If I over do it the car tells me it doesn't like it and I change down. I use 4th gear and tick over for level 20 mph area. 1.2i-DSi is very flexible.

guest7027

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 03:10:52 PM »
If I use light throttle I don't get the noise at all, only if I put foot flat out which in fairness I rarely ever do this, just so happened to do it last night and noticed the noise and now I'm paranoid about the noise haha! It's a bit like when you have a mouth ulcer or broken tooth - you can't stop sticking your tongue in it once you know it's there!!!

I will have to test it in my other Jazz as it's identical to mine and if it does it in that one it's likely not to be an issue.

Car is running generally fine otherwise - I do get a clutch judder when pulling off when the car is cold, seem to have to apply more revs to eliminate this (2k+ or so) but when the car is warm the judder disappears and I can pull off at 1.5k revs as normal. Honda dealer couldn't find a problem when they inspected clutch, flywheel and gearbox but my other Jazz doesn't do it? Kind of lost faith in the dealer as they treat you as a nuisance in the hope that you will give up, disappear and stop 'nagging' them if they don't do anything for you.


culzean

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 03:19:02 PM »
If I use light throttle I don't get the noise at all, only if I put foot flat out which in fairness I rarely ever do this, just so happened to do it last night and noticed the noise and now I'm paranoid about the noise haha! It's a bit like when you have a mouth ulcer or broken tooth - you can't stop sticking your tongue in it once you know it's there!!!

I do get a clutch judder when pulling off when the car is cold, seem to have to apply more revs to eliminate this (2k+ or so) but when the car is warm the judder disappears and I can pull off at 1.5k revs as normal. Honda dealer couldn't find a problem when they inspected clutch, flywheel and gearbox but my other Jazz doesn't do it? Kind of lost faith in the dealer as they treat you as a nuisance in the hope that you will give up, disappear and stop 'nagging' them if they don't do anything for you.

I have had clutch judder on several cars,  one good way to cure it is to put handbrake on and deliberately slip the clutch - this will remove any glaze or contamination on friction surfaces.

Believe me,  what you have is pinking / pinging / pre-ignition / knocking / detonation - call it what you will,  the harder you press the  accelerator in a high gear the louder it gets,    try it on a hill as well to put engine under more load,  it will probably start to pink sooner.  Easy enough to try some higher octane fuel,  I know I may get some flack for this but do you use supermarket fuel ?  Modern cars have knock sensors on the engine to pick up the sound of knocking,  in response to input from knock sensor what the ECU does is retard the ignition point (fires the spark later in compression stroke) this reduces damage to engine but also reduces the power,  this will allow car with 11:1 compression to run on lower octane but at the price of lower power output.   Knocking is trying to force the piston back down the way it came up,  but without passing through top dead centre,  this will damage the engine.  Pinking (a kind of tinkling sound) is what you have left when the knock sensor has done its job,  knocking is much louder and more destructive - but using too high a gear and a wide throttle opening will cause any petrol car to ping.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 03:47:42 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 03:19:43 PM »
I remember driving up to Aberdeen, many years ago, when I heard a noise I thought was a big end rumble (I had recently experienced the same on a previous car). I was in two minds whether to turn back or not, but I had my mother and another old dear in the car and they were heading to an important family function, so I carried on. Three years and 50,000 miles later I crashed into the front of a lorry driving that car with not a hint of big end rumble!

VicW

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 03:35:59 PM »
I would go along with the 'pinking' theory as well, the circumstances are typical, wide throttle opening at low speed in an over high gear.  Use the gearbox a bit more.
I would ask what fuel you are using, I am not criticising supermarket fuel which I use all the time albeit 99 octane ?
There are fuel stations that have sprung up that are selling an unnamed brand but that is cheaper by a couple of pence than is usual. I wouldn't go near these.

Vic.

guest7027

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 04:22:04 PM »
I usually use Esso for fuel as this is close to me, car was running Esso fuel when I had the tickle noise.

Filled up yesterday at Tesco though just because I was low and it was the next station I passed.

Will I have done any engine damage? This is the first time I've had this happen (4/5 ocassions last night trying to work out the noise and its origin) and in the future I will use the gear box more to avoid any unnecessary engine labour.








guest7027

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2017, 04:24:48 PM »
And does every petrol car behave in this way? Or is this a fault?

I've always had diesels in the past.

culzean

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Re: Engine noise when accelerating heavily low speed in high gear
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2017, 04:34:30 PM »
And does every petrol car behave in this way? Or is this a fault?

I've always had diesels in the past.

Diesels work on compression ignition but petrol cars should not (which is basically what it is doing when it knocks).  I guess you are used to running a diesel at low revs in higher gear because of its lower down torque and limited rev range but you will have to get used to revving a petrol engine more to get the best out if it, especially a Honda engine.     A tinkling noise,  while not ideal should not damage the engine,  but if it gets louder, more like a knocking it would, but knock sensors are there to protect the engine that is their job to reduce severity of the knock.

Most petrol engines will ping slightly at low revs in high gear, just because petrol is more flammable than diesel.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:23:10 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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