Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 695887 times)

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #285 on: October 05, 2017, 07:16:44 PM »
The company you are paying only buys green electricity, so they are only paying for green electricity. Once it goes into the grid it is all the same. You may even be getting French electricity, if you live in the South East! But at least your money goes towards furthering renewables, even though you could be using "coal electricity".

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #286 on: October 06, 2017, 10:47:45 AM »
Yes that's right. Companies buy electricity wholesale and charge you for that. Green tariffs mean that you can be assured none of your money goes to fossil fuel producers but the stuff that comes down the wire is the same for everybody in your area.

Even the big 6 often offer green tariffs undertaking that your dosh goes to renewables. Ecotricity is interesting in terms of gas because they are a producer and are putting gas made from grass, yes grass, into the grid.

guest5079

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #287 on: October 06, 2017, 12:29:07 PM »
Thank you gentlemen Yes I know it all comes down the same cable!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as I know the only LOCAL generating outfit is in Plymouth and that is run on gas.
I know not if it is general but here all power is actually 'supplied' by Western Power Distribution who on occasion we have had to contact over problems. We were plagued with power cuts 10 in one day. About 30metres away is a distribution cabinet. Along would come a man and another in separate vehicle and one would done great big gloves and go in and reset the fuse. Well we all got fed up with continuous power cuts and they found a broken cable outside our bungalow. Poor installation. Several cases since.
Western Power have ALWAYS been helpful and polite. When we changed 'supplier' we were told to contact Western Power Supply. That is a hint about the same 'Lectric' going down the line.
Seriously if it wasn't for the National Grid and people like Western Power we would be in a state if we had to rely on people like EDF to actually physically supply the power. AS to Water we have NO choice just pay an awful lot of money to South West Water for lousy water. If you complain  all you get is the water is of drinkable quality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!2017 and our water is gravity fed from a cistern on a hill far away,which in turn is fed from Meldon reservoir. When they built Meldon there was considerable concern about the arsenic mines that surround the are. This of course was discounted. The joke is between the cistern and Meldon is a whopping great reservoir, no we can't have that it's for Plymouth. that's progress.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #288 on: October 06, 2017, 02:01:42 PM »
Interesting article on the news today. Researchers at Rice University, a private research university located on a 295-acre campus in Houston, have found that using carbon derived from bitumen in the making of Lithium batteries allows them to charge 10 to 20 times faster. It also reduces the formation of the deposits that limit the life of the battery.
A battery, built this way, can be charged from zero to full charged in 5 minutes.
Once this is fully developed it brings the prospect of charging your battery in little more than it takes to top up with petrol or diesel.
It does not get round the infrastructure problems, nor the fact that to charge that quickly requires extremely high voltage or current (or both), but these are issues they will overcome in time. It may be that a charging station will be supplied by a high voltage 3 phase supply (as factories are now), which will be used to charge permanent battery or super-capacitor installations. These storage devices will be able to rapidly dump the 100 kW or whatever the car requires, almost instantly. A bit like the way NASCAR teams rapidly fill their cars with fuel. Fill the can with a normal pump, dump it in the car in seconds.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41523653

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #289 on: October 06, 2017, 05:09:39 PM »
Yes that's right. Companies buy electricity wholesale and charge you for that. Green tariffs mean that you can be assured none of your money goes to fossil fuel producers but the stuff that comes down the wire is the same for everybody in your area.

Even the big 6 often offer green tariffs undertaking that your dosh goes to renewables. Ecotricity is interesting in terms of gas because they are a producer and are putting gas made from grass, yes grass, into the grid.

So another case of 'renewables' being propped up by 'reliables' because whether your 'green' power supplier gives money to fossil or nuclear generators the fact is that you are probably reliant on fossil / nuclear for a 24/7/365 supply. On hols in Cornwall today and went past a few windfarms today, including Goonhilly, needless to say (and far too common) non of the turbines rotating.

If these shonky operators are selling green power, then when no green power is available their customers should go without, otherwise they should have to calculate how much 'conventional' electricity they relied on to supply their customers and give that amount to the reliable providers - otherwise it's all smoke and mirrors.

As for making gas from grass, IMHO grass is for cows to eat to make milk and steaks, it is not a good use of arable land to grow grass to supply gas, that way lies madness.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #290 on: October 06, 2017, 05:17:13 PM »
Interesting.

I wonder how the charging/range conundrum will pan out over the next few years. The more range the car has, the less the need to charge on the move. I realise that's stating the obvious but it's this current generation of EVs where the issue is critical.

A petrol head who has made the leap to electric cars is Quentin Willson - Top Gear main presenter pre Clarkson - you know - when it was about cars.

His advocacy is based entirely on air quality rather than climate change but he has been pestering Nissan for some time about the provision of uprated batteries for existing cars. Interestingly I've read various accounts on why this can't be done from marketing issues to technical but when he has put them on the spot they have not denied that uprating the battery should, and is, technically possible. Willson make the very valid point that people won't make the switch in the next few years if they think their car will be obsolete as soon as they get it - as he says - 2040 is a long long way in the future - people who change every 3 years might expect to own 7 cars in that time.


peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #291 on: October 06, 2017, 05:24:16 PM »


So another case of 'renewables' being propped up by 'reliables' because whether your 'green' power supplier gives money to fossil or nuclear generators the fact is that you are probably reliant on fossil / nuclear for a 24/7/365 supply. On hols in Cornwall today and went past a few windfarms today, including Goonhilly, needless to say (and far too common) non of the turbines rotating.

If these shonky operators are selling green power, then when no green power is available their customers should go without, otherwise they should have to calculate how much 'conventional' electricity they relied on to supply their customers and give that amount to the reliable providers - otherwise it's all smoke and mirrors.

As for making gas from grass, IMHO grass is for cows to eat to make milk and steaks, it is not a good use of arable land to grow grass to supply gas, that way lies madness.


I think that's wrong on several counts. Your "reliables" are anything but - they will run out and as more marginal sources are mined or extracted the environmental costs will get higher and higher. There is already robust resistance to fracking especially where it is due to take place and that resistance is not from the usual suspects alone. People don't want this stuff.

The gas from grass initiative - launched by Ecotricity - does not involve any arable land, whatsoever, being used. Dale Vince and Ecotricity are applying to build grass mills wherever the fossil fuel industry tries to frack. Marginal grass lands will provide all the gas needed. This is on the assumption that electricity generation becomes wholly carbon neutral in time.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #292 on: October 06, 2017, 05:31:21 PM »
Scotland has announced this week that the current ban of fracking will continue indefinitely and that Underground Coal Gasification will also be banned.

guest1372

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #293 on: October 06, 2017, 05:45:33 PM »
.... unless they fit a filter to sort out all the electrons that come from non green sources.
I realise you are only poking the wasps nest but it's very easy; we have this with one of our properties - the supplier only buys from renewable sources.  The generation mix is chosen by each supplier quite freely, but there are targets to meet versus levies to pay. 
--
TG

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #294 on: October 06, 2017, 05:48:38 PM »
There is enough coal still in the ground to last an awful long time, same with oil and gas,  also USA has enough of the atomic stuff in storage to generate all their electrical power needs for over 700 years, and they have enough left over to nuke north korea many times over.

USA and Canada are nett exporters of oil and gas due to fracking and shale. This has bought OPEC to heel and oil prices have plummeted, Saudi wants to undercut
North American  cost of production by keeping oil flowing at low price.

Unfortunately it is too common a site in UK (one of the windiest and most suitable for wind power in Europe, if not the world) to drive past windfarms where the turbines are playing statues. The only way we can reliably have EV is to build another 20 nuclear power stations,  anything else is just dreaming.

As for making biomethane from grass, it is calculated that over 60% of UK agricultural land would be required, this does not include the land needed to house the digesters and pipelines. The Co2 released converting gas to burnable quality is being ignored by ecotricity as are a lot of other things,  no such thing as a free lunch.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 07:08:13 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #295 on: October 06, 2017, 05:50:03 PM »
There is not a lot of wind or solar energy being generated today. We are buying almost as much from France at the moment.

guest1372

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #296 on: October 06, 2017, 05:53:28 PM »
Toshiba claim a new battery composition can give 300km range on a 6 minute charge.
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2017_10/pr0301.htm

The new battery also offers high energy density and ultra-rapid recharging characteristics, and its titanium niobium oxide anode is much less likely to experience lithium metal deposition during ultra-rapid recharging or recharging in cold conditions—a cause of battery degradation and internal short circuiting.
".... maintains over 90% of its initial capacity after being put through 5,000 charge/discharge cycles, and ultra-rapid recharging can be done in cold conditions, with temperatures as low as minus 10°C, in only ten minutes."

・New battery realizes driving range of electric vehicles boosted to 320km on 6-minute, ultra-rapid recharge, triple that possible with current lithium-ion battery.
・New anode material, titanium niobium oxide achieves double the capacity of the anode of current lithium-ion batteries.

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TG

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #297 on: October 06, 2017, 06:01:44 PM »
Storage solutions are improving exponentially and as it does the market for conventional hydrocarbon powered vehicles, electricity generation and therefore oil production will diminish.
Canada has ditched plans to build two huge pipelines. Lots of reasons given but fundamentally the money men don't want to get lumbered with massive depreciating assets. Canada's oil is not cheap to produce and with the increasing solar, wind and tidal production, oil is fast becoming cheaper, and who wants to buy expensive Canadian oil when Saudi Arabia is giving it way.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #298 on: October 06, 2017, 06:04:55 PM »
Five year price of oil.

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #299 on: October 06, 2017, 07:00:43 PM »
There is not a lot of wind or solar energy being generated today. We are buying almost as much from France at the moment.
And that's most likely being generated by nuclear power stations!

I'd like to see some of the small modular reactors being built. They are expected to produce power at significantly lower cost than Hinkley Point C http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/09/go-ahead-mini-reactors-energy-crunch-looms/.

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