Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 7294 times)

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #315 on: October 08, 2017, 05:35:45 PM »
The EMP from a nuclear blast is still a problem but has a very limited range from a ground detonated explosion (the NK tests have no effect other than in the detonation area). The problem lies with high altitude detonations, where a large area south of the detonation position would be affected. Lots of the effects are temporary. Modern electronics, particularly military equipment, are not as susceptible as the early solid state equipment.
I too believe that man made climate change is affecting the world. I watched a scientist, on the news today, talking about how climate change is causing the sea temperatures to rise, which lead to greater evaporation, which in turn create bigger and stronger storms. And this year's hurricane season is testament to that.
On a totally different tack, Australia is looking at changing the law so that it will not be an offence for a drunk driver to be in charge of an autonomous vehicle. It will be considered like being in a taxi. Other governments are looking at similar changes. I would imagine this will only pertain to Level 4 and 5 vehicles, not the driver's aids we have at present.

ColinS

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #316 on: October 08, 2017, 07:34:24 PM »
Why are we talking about a nuclear blast within the context of power generation?  It is physically impossible for a power station to undergo a nuclear explosion.  Such could only occur if fissile material were forced to a critical mass within a minute period of time.  Not possible in a nuclear reactor.

The worry would be a conventional detonation causing fissile material to be released into the atmosphere, but this is a totally new topic.  Lets not go there.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #317 on: October 08, 2017, 08:01:39 PM »
We are not talking about a blast in a nuclear power station. We are discussing the effect of a nuclear weapon being detonated, and its effect on the grid, or at least, that was my belief.
"Countryfile", this evening, had some interesting stuff on power generation, fracking, and solar energy storage.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #318 on: October 09, 2017, 07:07:01 AM »
Just re-watched the section of "Countryfile" where they looked at solar energy. They said that farmers tend to be early adopters of technology, if it will save them a bob or two, and solar was one such technology. The farm they visited was self sufficient for energy having a large solar array and storage. The presenter asked, "are these the batteries". and it was pointed out that batteries were a dirty word and they were "energy storage machines". There were about 3 or 4 container sized units. They went to great length to point out that the area used for the solar arrays was not wasted, as it was also used to graze sheep. They were selling excess energy, surplus to their own requirements, to the grid.
The point of the piece was to show that those that could make use of large arrays (farmers, warehouse companies, supermarkets and such), were adopting solar, and that was freeing up electricity for the charging of EVs. However, as often stated here, how the infrastructure will be adapted to accommodate charging was not discussed.

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #319 on: October 09, 2017, 08:46:22 AM »
I fully intended to apologise for my outburst, it was a very bad 'BLACK DOG' day.
How ever it seems as always Jazzers have taken it in their stride. Yes I was talking about a Nuclear conflagration. Nuclear power stations would of course be affected but then that would be the least of our worries. It is not only NK that is worrying. BUT of course we are talking here about EV and the where withal to have enough capacity to power them. So I apologise for straying so far off subject.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #320 on: October 09, 2017, 10:15:27 AM »
In UK we probably have more 'land owners' than farmers,  because growing crops, milk and animals is a very, very low margin business and people who own land can get subsidies for 'setting aside' (ie doing nothing with the land except grow flowers that are considered weeds on farmland, but are not part of human food chain) they can get subsidies for solar and wind infrastructure on their land, along with generous feed in tariffs so why wouldn't they do it ?  The average age of a UK farmer is over 60,  so pretty soon we will not have any farmers as such - just people to go around cleaning solar panels and collecting dead birds and bats from under wind turbines.

We grow less than 50% of the food we consume in UK,  most of the imported stuff no doubt arrives in smelly ships burning diesel or thick black sulphurous bunker oil, or on planes burning kerosene, we have outsourced our farming  in the same way we outsourced our industry, which means we can claim to be 'greener'  because all those nasty smelly things now take place on other peoples land (lamb from New Zealand, apples from South Africa or Chile or New Zealand,  milk from heaven knows where),  while we install solar panels and wind turbines - tokenism at its finest.

here is a quote from former director of Greenpeace.......

Notable Quote
•   I had no idea that after I left they would evolve into a band of scientific illiterates…. Clearly, my former Greenpeace colleagues are either not reading the morning paper or simply don’t care about the truth.
John Passacantando

Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #321 on: October 09, 2017, 10:18:34 AM »
Notable Quote
•   I had no idea that after I left they would evolve into a band of scientific illiterates…. Clearly, my former Greenpeace colleagues are either not reading the morning paper or simply don’t care about the truth.
John Passacantando

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #322 on: October 09, 2017, 10:34:07 AM »
Culzean has a point about the way we have outsourced so much agricultural production. There is a huge amount to be said for more localism.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #323 on: October 09, 2017, 11:40:35 AM »
It is over 100 years since Britain has been able to grow our own food. The population is just too large. Add to that the fact we can import food cheaper and it is understandable why we import so much. Britain has priced herself out of the market in many cases. We, the buying public, want to buy goods cheaply, the supermarkets want to sell to us, and if rubbish Granny Smiths are cheaper from Bulgaria than here (never mind what they taste like), they will buy them and we will be stuck with them. (Mind you, Granny Smiths originally came from Australia!)
It is the same with holidays. I often go away for a long weekend, somewhere in the UK, and I could have 10 days in the sun for a similar price (well I could before the £ fell).
As for the average age of farmers. The average age of the UK population is over 40 now and getting older. There are plenty young farmers, just their fathers are still living and owning the farms. We are not going to run out of farmers.
As an aside, the Scottish government is stepping in to buy up butter, to protect commercial bakers and the like. The reason there is a butter shortage is because farmers are shying away from milk production. And the reason for that is the fact the supermarkets have depressed the price of milk so low, farmers cannot make a living from producing it.
No one can blame a farmer for turning his land over for solar and wind turbines. They need to make a living and a return on their investment (the land) so if farming, per se, doesn't pay, then why not energy production.
It all stems from government policy since before the Great War.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #324 on: October 09, 2017, 12:59:21 PM »
Notable Quote
•   I had no idea that after I left they would evolve into a band of scientific illiterates…. Clearly, my former Greenpeace colleagues are either not reading the morning paper or simply don’t care about the truth.
John Passacantando

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

Pretty much my take on things Jocko.

I mentioned opinions above. Here are some opinions refuting the opinions quoted by Culzean above.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/climate-change/energyrevolution/renewable-energy-myths/

Of course it's Greenpeace and they have an axe to grind but so do many proponents of fossil fuels. The poster boy for the anti green lobby is Matt Ridley. Turns out he had an open cast coalmine on his land and has investments in a company making fracking equipment.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #325 on: October 09, 2017, 01:17:57 PM »
As for the average age of farmers. The average age of the UK population is over 40 now and getting older. There are plenty young farmers, just their fathers are still living and owning the farms. We are not going to run out of farmers.

Quote from a Guardian article below in italics......
(we all know that teachers are the last people on earth qualified to give careers advice to children as many of them have never really left the school environment and ventured into the real world). Many older farmers are unable to leave farming due to the shaky position of their finances, especially if they do not own the land they farm.

"Many of those who guide school children in their choice of career are unaware of the challenges and opportunities that agriculture offers – not only to those who are practical and interested in technology and engineering, but to science students interested in animal and plant breeding, nutrition, and soil management.

A report by the Royal Agricultural Society of England used the often-quoted statistic that the average age of a British farmer is 59 to predict a pressing requirement for 60,000 new farmers to replace those who will shortly leave the industry. Figures from Eurostat and CEJA, the European Council of Young Farmers, point out that the percentage of farmers under 35 in the UK has fallen from 16% in 1990 to 2.8% in 2016. It is clear that a steady supply of able, young entrants is needed to meet the challenges mentioned above."
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #326 on: October 09, 2017, 01:53:06 PM »
A report by the Royal Agricultural Society of England used the often-quoted statistic[/i]
I am very sceptical of statistics. I know how lobby groups can manipulate them and the old adage, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics", attributed to Benjamin Disraeli springs to mind.
I don't know, and I believe you don't know either, whether their definition of a farmer is the dictionary definition of "a farmer" as someone who owns or takes care of a farm, or someone who has studied and trained in farming. If it is the first instance, then there will be very few young men who own farms or even manage them, however, the second definition covers a far greater field (no pun intended).
Much though I hate quoting The Guardian for anything, according to this article
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/31/agriculture-uk-fastest-growing-subject-career-student-farmers
agriculture is the fastest growing subject at universities in the UK.
As I say, for every person/group/lobbyist saying black, there is another person/group/lobbyist saying white.
We all have our opinions, right or wrong.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #327 on: October 09, 2017, 01:56:11 PM »
One thing I'd like to clarify. Is this the five minute argument or the ten minute argument?

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #328 on: October 09, 2017, 06:11:03 PM »
I see that the BBC has cottoned on to the fact that the Scottish government announced, last week, that plans were soon to be announced for the "electrification" of the A9, with areas with charging points being installed, making it Scotland's first "electric highway".

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #329 on: October 09, 2017, 07:56:45 PM »
That will be a big step forward Jocko. The A roads need chargers especially these longer stretches in the countryside.

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