Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 7294 times)

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #300 on: October 06, 2017, 10:00:20 PM »
A brilliant piece on Tidal energy just been posted on Fully Charged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEQQl-qpkCc

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #301 on: October 07, 2017, 11:34:18 AM »
One of the first wind farms certainly in Cornwall was built on Laneast Down a few miles from Launceston. I have never seen all turbines working. A few years back a turbine blade fell off fortunately these turbines are quite small and away from the road.
Just up the road alongside the A388 three turbines were erected, they are quite large and very close to the road. It appears they have been erected for a chicken farm but now that they are operational we now have some form of 'eco' holiday village.  I do not like these great turbines close to a road, it makes me feel very vulnerable. It is not just a case of a blade falling off it's the fact that will probably bounce or cartwheel
As to coal, I hope I remember correctly but some years back when the question of energy was becoming a talking point it was written that GB is sitting on 400 yrs of supply. I am just reading a book about the steam locomotive and it's workings and it has shown to me the problems allied to production of steam for powering machinery BUT what has happened to the work on cleaning coal emissions? It seems we are being subjected to the old political correctness. Closing coal power stations prior to end of life buying coal from Australia. What happened to the geo thermic work in west Cornwall?  Even the other night they were talking of the Lizard where the serpentine rock is the result of the earths crust being comparatively thin there. When will it all end? Basically it is all down to money, in my opinion not lack of it but not enough can be made by the greedy few who control everything. No I am not a communist they are just as bad, Whats mine is mine and whats your is mine too!!!!!!!!! I am just a member of joe public at the end of his years who just wants to be warm and fed and secure, all impossible it seems judging by the way the people that control us are carrying on.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #302 on: October 07, 2017, 12:15:20 PM »
It might not be fashionable amongst some circles to say it but I think nuclear power will be an essential component for many years to come and we absolutely can't just stop using fossil fuels at the drop of a hat. Long term we need to though both on environmental grounds but also on security of supply.

ColinS

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #303 on: October 07, 2017, 01:28:07 PM »
It might not be fashionable amongst some circles to say it but I think nuclear power will be an essential component for many years to come and we absolutely can't just stop using fossil fuels at the drop of a hat. Long term we need to though both on environmental grounds but also on security of supply.

I began my working career 46 years ago with the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA).  Why the government stopped investing in this area I do not know.  We could have been world leaders in the technology instead of importing from France.  Politics!

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #304 on: October 07, 2017, 02:37:54 PM »
Just on this "gas from grass" thing. Ecotricity do not plan to use any land currently used as arable land.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/18/could-gas-from-grass-rival-fracking-to-heat-uk-homes

Also, completely agree with Colin. How we have lost our world leader status in nuclear is criminal on the part of all governments. Hinckley -  built by the French Government's energy arm - EDF - and financed by a communist state - China. It's enough to make you weep.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #305 on: October 07, 2017, 10:23:13 PM »
Read an interesting article on wind turbines. Usually, when you see them stationary, it is not lack of wind that causes that but too much electricity. Because wind turbines can be shut down readily, the national grid PAYS the operators to shut them down when demand drops. It is known as "Constraint". It is easier to shut down 100 wind turbines than one oil or coal fired station, and certainly a lot easier than shutting down a nuclear power station. The average wind turbine is shut down for 38 days a year for Constraint. The operators are paid around 3M per month to shut them down. The price of going green!

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #306 on: October 08, 2017, 11:24:14 AM »
Read an interesting article on wind turbines. Usually, when you see them stationary, it is not lack of wind that causes that but too much electricity. Because wind turbines can be shut down readily, the national grid PAYS the operators to shut them down when demand drops. It is known as "Constraint". It is easier to shut down 100 wind turbines than one oil or coal fired station, and certainly a lot easier than shutting down a nuclear power station. The average wind turbine is shut down for 38 days a year for Constraint. The operators are paid around 3M per month to shut them down. The price of going green!

The main problem may be that renewables are so damn unreliable they are an embarrassment and a complication to grid operators,  so when they do generate some power it catches everyone by surprise so it is easier just to not have the power they are offering. The EU has been paying people (including farmers) to do nothing for years, renewables are just an extension of that ethos.

quotes from a couple of articles on renewables.........

As long as you have below 10 percent wind and solar, says Clements Triebel, of the German energy management company Younicos, “nobody notice that you will become any problem at the grid.”

And more than a bit of intermittent power can cause real problems for the grid—worst case, even a blackout. So to keep the grid stable, Germany’s had to slow down the introduction of some new renewable sources. Sometimes,  Triebel says, it even has to shut some wind and solar generators down.
Which, he says, is “a very, very, yeah, stupid situation. But you can imagine if people, knowing more about this situation, they’re running crazy, and they say it’s not what we want.”

While mature economies such as Germany and California have trialed large-scale renewables successfully, these successes weren’t achieved without fossil fuels backing them up. The Energy Information Administration’s Annual Energy Outlook 2017 to 2050 has renewables at only 18-26 percent penetration by 2050. Electric vehicles currently have 1 percent of the market and are projected to have only gained 6 percent by 2040.


Anyone who has any delusions about the place of renewables should read this.....

the opening paragraph says it all really

Humanity is owed a serious investigation of how we have gone so far with the decarbonization project without a serious challenge in terms of engineering reality. – Michael Kelly, Prof. Electrical Engineering, Cambridge

https://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/Renewable-energy-cannot-replace-FF_Lyman.pdf

« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 11:49:51 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #307 on: October 08, 2017, 12:06:30 PM »
These are opinions. They may have reasoning behind them but they ARE opinions. There are plenty of opinions saying the exact opposite.

Fossil Fuels will run out. What then?

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #308 on: October 08, 2017, 12:08:26 PM »
I'm not saying we can do away with fossil fuels, and for every article, paper and argument for them there is an equal and opposite article, paper or argument against. I am not against fossil fuel use, though I am very much against the building of more nuclear energy plants (especially if France and China have a hand in it). In a future confrontation China could melt down our nuclear power plants via a software back door. I'm sure Trump wishes he could do that in NK.
Our energy sources are a national defence and as such only the UK should have control of them.
What I am saying is with the improvements in technology that man is developing we should make use of them, and these include solar power generation and energy storage.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #309 on: October 08, 2017, 12:14:12 PM »
Pretty much my take on things Jocko.

I mentioned opinions above. Here are some opinions refuting the opinions quoted by Culzean above.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/climate-change/energyrevolution/renewable-energy-myths/

Of course it's Greenpeace and they have an axe to grind but so do many proponents of fossil fuels. The poster boy for the anti green lobby is Matt Ridley. Turns out he had an open cast coalmine on his land and has investments in a company making fracking equipment.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #310 on: October 08, 2017, 12:16:29 PM »
These are opinions. They may have reasoning behind them but they ARE opinions. There are plenty of opinions saying the exact opposite.

Fossil Fuels will run out. What then?

This reply came pretty quickly but it takes a while to read a 44 page article properly, they are more than opinions, they are reality at the moment.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #311 on: October 08, 2017, 01:48:31 PM »
Pretty much my take on things Jocko.

I mentioned opinions above. Here are some opinions refuting the opinions quoted by Culzean above.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/climate-change/energyrevolution/renewable-energy-myths/

Of course it's Greenpeace and they have an axe to grind but so do many proponents of fossil fuels. The poster boy for the anti green lobby is Matt Ridley. Turns out he had an open cast coalmine on his land and has investments in a company making fracking equipment.

They keep banging on about 'smart grids' and stuff,  even the smartest computer cannot draw power from a source that is not making any.  That is what the Cambridge Professor in my link meant,  when he said what he did about engineering reality.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #312 on: October 08, 2017, 03:16:05 PM »
I think the elephant in the room here is whether or not you believe in man made climate change. I do. For this reason I support the development of renewable energy sources and also nuclear power as well. When you are on a particular side of this debate a thing called confirmation bias kicks in. I'm probably guilty of this as much as the next person.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #313 on: October 08, 2017, 03:22:26 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Science

These people are funded by the fossil fuel industry. Confirmation bias. Not to be trusted IMO but then not everybody trusts the other side.

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #314 on: October 08, 2017, 04:20:54 PM »
Which ever side of the fence you come down on there is one problem which  I do not know if it has been fixed.
When I was a village bobby we had every so often to test the alarms in our offices. These gave us warning of a nuclear attack.  The signal was transmitted along telephone lines. Numerous bobbies far cleverer than I asked the question If there is a nuclear attack what happens to the phone lines? Usual answer don't ask stupid questions.
I can remember when  the western world laughed at the Russians because they the Russians still had old technology in their aircraft etc. Then someone woke up to the pulse that comes after a nuclear explosion which would destroy ALL  computers etc.
Now everything we use depend on and need is run by computers but I have never found out if the 'Pulse' problem has ever been resolved. Moving on the modern times, if NK gets it's way all the wind power solar panels power stations won't be  worth diddly squat. I don't think the public were ever shown the effect of a nuclear blast on the infrastructure, people etc as it was  decided to be too frightening. The world is getting to be a very fragile place because man wants to be top dog over his fellow man. We are fortunate in the West as we have much BUT for how long? It is always a case of the grass is greener and the hordes are looking at our perfect life. Yes we need energy but why can't the experts wake up and stop arguing about who is right over how we  produce the energy we need .Perhaps the EV is the answer BUT I understand the production of electricity is very inefficient so perhaps we should concentrate on making the production more efficient and less wasteful.  Just to really throw a spanner in the works. There are those that condemn Nuclear power and then spend thousands to get to lay on a beach soaking up  sunlight.  Miserable git aint I.

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