Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 7240 times)

auntyneddy

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Electric cars
« on: July 12, 2017, 11:36:56 AM »
Yesterday, received an update on our hairdressers Renault ZOE. Back at the main dealers AGAIN. This time a failure of the info system. What the out come was as Husband wasn't back' In her words probably be in black thunder if he has had the usual trouble,wait all day to be told can't fix it have to be new part from France.  That's why I am not allowed to go after I told them Its a pity you are not as good repairing them as you are selling them. So its not only Honda.
Air con failed in the recent heatwave, plus other constant niggles but what has shall we say upset them is the dealer used to allow a free charge up, now it's 6 for half an hour. It was this that showed them they did not have the car they ordered. They wanted a fast charge battery system, but after 6 worth the battery was no where charged. Check paperwork, it's the car ordered according to the paperwork.Sorry that salesman has left, no you can't complain. Both Husband and Wife were present on ordering. So is it a case of taking a tape recorder when you go to a dealer for ANYTHING? All of this is as related, it does nothing to suggest that these electric vehicles have a lot of development before they are foisted onto the public.

VicW

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2017, 04:43:02 PM »
When a totally electric car will do 450 miles on a charge with the same use all year round and will recharge with the ease with which I refuel with petrol and will cost the same to buy, then I might consider one.

Vic.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 05:34:09 PM »
I'm quite interested in electric cars because they would do 95% (possibly more) of my motoring. The longest return trip I've done this year is a 50 mile return trip. I do see the benefits not so much from a climate change point of view but certainly from an air quality one.

Interesting that this has come up today because the old lady next door came back from the shops in a Prius Taxi - a lot of taxis round here are Priuses and old ones at that. I asked the taxi driver how he found the Prius and he said it was great around town as far as mpg goes - less so on longer trips although still pretty good. I asked him if it did any mileage at all on electric only and he said he reckoned the range was no more than 2 miles at low speeds but the car did use the electric only mode quite a lot in stop start traffic.

The enthusiasm for EVs has, to some extent, overshadowed hybrids but they seem ideal as a town car. Not that I'm in the market at the moment but I think I might consider a hybrid next time.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 06:24:13 PM »
I am old enough to remember the power cuts of the 1970s.
Where we live in Staffs Moorlands was subject to long blackouts every winter for decades until the electrical supply   systems were improved in the 2000s.

I refuse to rely on electric heating and have a small petrol stand by generator..

Would I wish to be totally dependent on the elctricity supply? Knowing if the car ran out of charge, I would be stuck until it was restored AND the car was recharged...

(And having an automated house running on the mains?)

All our PCs have battery backups (bought cheaply)  due to prior outages.

Wait till the UK runs out of electrical generating capacity..

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 06:47:26 PM »
The electricity supply in UK has been getting more and more precarious for decades due to scrapping reliable coal fired stations and putting too much faith in unreliable wind and solar,  and successive governments inability to make decision on building new nuclear stations,  and due to delays country has lost ability to build its own nuclear and we have to go begging to French and chinese.   Most winters we have been down to less than a 5% reserve capacity and there has been talk of shutting industry down if we had any cold weather.

Electricity is hard and expensive to store so you need to generate it when it is needed,  if we had a cold winter with little wind we would be up the creek with no paddle. Solar in UK generates most power when you need it least,  in the daytime in summer.

The truth is we have idiots in charge of our energy policies.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/wind-turbines-are-neither-clean-nor-green-and-they-provide-zero-global-energy/
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:39:30 AM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 06:53:11 PM »
I truly believe that electric cars will never become "big" during my lifetime. For a start, the UK doesn't have enough electricity capacity to charge huge fleets of electric vehicles. We are on the verge of brownouts now. And where do you charge them? Most motorists don't have off street parking near their house.
They just built a new hospital wing here in Kirkcaldy and put in charging bays in the car park. Two of them!
Tesla's Supercharger supposedly gives 80% charge in 45 minutes, but even Tesla takes overnight to charge from a home charger.

jazzster

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2017, 07:14:17 PM »
I have been looking at electric cars for a while now, i have the same thought about power cuts, dont have many at the moments but uk capacity from power stations suppose to be borderline in winter, also the car are way to expensive and depreciation way to much money in few years, replacment batteries would cost more than most of the car are worth at 4 or 5 years old, I thought about hybrids but they seem to expensive for the savings on mpg.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2017, 07:40:45 PM »
Of the current crop of electric vehicles I think the PHEV models are probably the best bet. Assuming you have your home charger you can probably run "electric" for a load of your normal running about. In my case that would be about 50 - 60% of my motoring. You then have the "hybrid mode" for the rest. The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV does about 30 miles on battery alone.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 07:46:12 PM »
Of the current crop of electric vehicles I think the PHEV models are probably the best bet. Assuming you have your home charger you can probably run "electric" for a load of your normal running about. In my case that would be about 50 - 60% of my motoring. You then have the "hybrid mode" for the rest. The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV does about 30 miles on battery alone.

I worked with a couple of engineers who had Outlanders as company vehicles,  they say don't rely on more than 20 miles on a full battery (it is a heavy vehicle and the battery weighs 500kg) - after that 30mpg and only a relatively small fuel tank for the size of the vehicle.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 08:06:50 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 08:25:27 PM »
I just picked the Outlander as an example. I pass an advert every day. It is the principle of PHEV that I am saying seems best compromise at present. Mind you, even 20 miles would be more than adequate for my daily miles. VW Golf would suit me better! It supposedly does 30 miles and takes 2.5 hours to charge.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2017, 08:45:52 PM »
There are growing numbers of reports of electric vehicles setting on fire,  especially those with lithium-ion batteries.  Fire departments are worried about how to deal with battery fires in crashed electric cars as well. The amount of power being stored in EV batteries (over 100KW/h ) makes them similar to a bomb waiting to go off. And the amount of toxic fumes released in a Li-Ion battery fire are equivalent to all of Saddam Husseins 'weapons of mass destruction' put together LOL

Remember the problems with Boeing Dreamliner aircraft fires a a few years ago and you still cannot transport Li-ion on passenger aircraft.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/23/lithium-ion-batteries-banned-as-cargo-on-passenger-flights
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:46:14 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2017, 09:44:08 PM »
Personally, I will never have an electric car, for various reason. Unless of course I win the lottery. Then I will have a BMW i8 in my stable!

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 09:40:14 AM »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

TG

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 09:54:04 AM »
Then I will have a BMW i8 in my stable
My next door neighbour in Yorkshire has one - has never plugged it in, and in my London parking structure another i8 and an Audi R8 share three spaces as they are too wide for a standard bay (plus there are no sockets in the reserved spaces); be interesting to see what they fetch at end of lease - new they are 100k.  Chevrolet Bolt (not Volt) is a fantastic car, shame about the badge snob factor, and that an RHD version is unlikely by GM.

After getting a briefing on the new Audi A8, it seems obvious that we will all be getting 'mild hybrid' cars over the next decade as cars standardise on a 48V power subsystem with limited storage in addition to the 12V cold start battery.
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TG

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 12:28:38 PM »
I wonder how the real cost of the charging compares with petrol? A 100kWh battery would cost 15 to 20 to fully charge at current domestic tariffs. Free / subsidised charging will disappear as the number of electric vehicles increases.

Hybrid has a lot of potential as (i) there's the recovery of energy lost to braking and (ii) it allows the engine to spend more of its time operating under the most efficient conditions. Honda's Mk 2 Jazz hybrid was a bit half baked as both the battery (a heavy lead acid lump) and motor/generator were of limited capacity. A hybrid version of the Mk 3 Jazz is sold in some parts of the world but not here.

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