Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 => Topic started by: guest7024 on October 22, 2017, 02:18:55 PM
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Sick of taking off cleaning can you actually take it apart to clean. If I blank it off would it cause any harm
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Sick of taking off cleaning can you actually take it apart to clean. If I blank it off would it cause any harm
Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
Blank it off but leave it connected - otherwise you will get a light on :D
Only starts to open above about 3500 rpm to 'cool' combustion and reduce Nox.
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Sick of taking off cleaning can you actually take it apart to clean. If I blank it off would it cause any harm
Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
Blank it off but leave it connected - otherwise you will get a light on :D
Only starts to open above about 3500 rpm to 'cool' combustion and reduce Nox.
Thanks
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Stevec1962 - I have been meaning to ask this question for a while but seeing your post has prompted me to get on with it! Is cleaning the EGR valve a routine job (if so, is it a DIY job?) or is it a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? What are the symptoms if it isn't working properly?
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Stevec1962 - I have been meaning to ask this question for a while but seeing your post has prompted me to get on with it! Is cleaning the EGR valve a routine job (if so, is it a DIY job?) or is it a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? What are the symptoms if it isn't working properly?
Mine gives slight judder around 40 / 50 mph I stripped off cleaned 2 x then tried little can cleaner from halfords you spray in air system both seem to work for about month 2 bolts to get it off
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Cleaned my EGR because of stalling at junctions, particularly uphill starts. Seriously considering blanking it off, you can get a blanking plate that fits most small Hondas, including the Jazz, for a few pounds.
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Stevec1962 - I have been meaning to ask this question for a while but seeing your post has prompted me to get on with it! Is cleaning the EGR valve a routine job (if so, is it a DIY job?) or is it a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? What are the symptoms if it isn't working properly?
Mine gives slight judder around 40 / 50 mph I stripped off cleaned 2 x then tried little can cleaner from halfords you spray in air system both seem to work for about month 2 bolts to get it off
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OK, thanks. I don't get the juddering you describe but I do find a similar situation that Sparky Paul reports i.e. I have found it difficult to get a smooth start from rest. At first I put it down to poor clutch control on my part, as I found I had to really put my foot down on the accelerator because I had the feeling that the car would stall if I didn't. Sometimes I don't need to do that and the car will move off smoothly - other times it stalls or is about to. I've had the car (07 reg) for just over a year now and it's just the same as it was at the beginning.
As I've been driving for about 50 years using a huge variety of cars in that time, I don't think the problem is down to me!
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Cleaned my EGR because of stalling at junctions, particularly uphill starts. Seriously considering blanking it off, you can get a blanking plate that fits most small Hondas, including the Jazz, for a few pounds.
Paul - thanks for your comments. Please see my reply to Steve1962 above - I think I have the same problem as you.
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I have found it difficult to get a smooth start from rest. At first I put it down to poor clutch control on my part, as I found I had to really put my foot down on the accelerator because I had the feeling that the car would stall if I didn't. Sometimes I don't need to do that and the car will move off smoothly - other times it stalls or is about to. I've had the car (07 reg) for just over a year now and it's just the same as it was at the beginning.
As I've been driving for about 50 years using a huge variety of cars in that time, I don't think the problem is down to me!
I have been driving for over 50 years, I experience the above, and I too have had my Jazz for over a year. I think it is down to me. The Jazz is a relatively low powered vehicle (my 1.2 litre one certainly is), it has a relatively fierce clutch (I have driven cars where you could almost slip your foot off the side of the clutch and it would still take up smoothly), and it has a notoriously fickle accelerator (you can buy an electronic circuit to smooth the accelerator operation out). As a consequence, driving, as I do, with thick soled size 10's, requires more than a bit of finesse with the throttle and clutch.
The motorcycle I learned to ride on (Honda CB100N) was exactly the same. You just had to give it enough revs to get further up the torque curve, slip the clutch, and off you went. Smoothly. I find it is exactly the same with my Jazz.
Personally I have never had any doubts about the operation of my EGR valve. The engine performs flawlessly, fuel consumption is great, no judder at any speed once clutch is fully engaged, and no warning lights or codes.
If however, you think there is an issue, then a blank can be purchased for £3.89 from eBay, two bolts and you can try it and see.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-valve-blanking-plate-Honda-Accord-Prelude-Civic-Jazz-Shuttle-Petrol-engines/121234492470?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-valve-blanking-plate-Honda-Accord-Prelude-Civic-Jazz-Shuttle-Petrol-engines/121234492470?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VYIAAOSwwo1XfpEP/s-l500.jpg)
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Personally I have never had any doubts about the operation of my EGR valve. The engine performs flawlessly, fuel consumption is great, no judder at any speed once clutch is fully engaged, and no warning lights or codes.
IMHO and general consensus on 'tinternet seems to be that EGR more likely to give problems if car is constantly used for short local journeys and never gets a higher speed higher rev blast occasionally to burn off the crud that can build up in the EGR, especially the solenoid shaft. There are dire warnings on some politically correct sites that 'blanking off the EGR can cause your engine to overheat' by allowing combustion temperatures to rise etc. in fact when the EGR is working properly it actually reduces both the combustion temperature and engine power by replacing some of the oxygen in the combustion chamber with exhaust gas, which is also what happens when the EGR sticks open but then it reduces power and messes up the combustion at revs around tick-over and above (when you need good clean combustion to allow you to pull away smoothly).
Only time I have had jerky take-offs of Jazz and Civic I knew it was clutch related and I gave the clutches a good warm up by leaving handbrake on and deliberately slipping the clutch. My clutch control is pretty good but even I was unable to control the juddering when using normal revs to pull away and had to resort to winding the revs up and letting the clutch out as slowly as I could, but the 'Italian clutch tune-up' worked wonders and I had a smooth clutch afterwards.
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Short local journeys and no high revs pretty much describes my use of the Jazz. I wasn't advocating doing away with the EGR valve but just replacing it temporarily, to see if it cured Bonzo James' issues when pulling away.
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Short local journeys and no high revs pretty much describes my use of the Jazz. I wasn't advocating doing away with the EGR valve but just replacing it temporarily, to see if it cured Bonzo James' issues when pulling away.
I wasn't advocating keeping the EGR either, there are plenty of posts from people on internet who have blanked off the EGR but left it connected when it was giving them problems and cleaning didn't help, it can be the cheapest option.
I deliberately said 'politically correct' websites will say you cannot blank off the EGR and then give dire warnings about you contribution to the NOx in the air and overheating of engines, which possibly could happen if you drive everywhere like a lunatic, but then if you drove like that the EGR is unlikely to give problems anyway.
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Short local journeys and no high revs pretty much describes my use of the Jazz. I wasn't advocating doing away with the EGR valve but just replacing it temporarily, to see if it cured Bonzo James' issues when pulling away.
I wasn't advocating keeping the EGR either, there are plenty of posts from people on internet who have blanked off the EGR but left it connected when it was giving them problems and cleaning didn't help, it can be the cheapest option.
I deliberately said 'politically correct' websites will say you cannot blank off the EGR and then give dire warnings about you contribution to the NOx in the air and overheating of engines, which possibly could happen if you drive everywhere like a lunatic, but then if you drove like that the EGR is unlikely to give problems anyway.
I'm fed up of cleaning mine so blanking off option for me
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Maybe you should fit a brand new EGR. Perhaps it's passed cleaning. I've seen them from £35 upwards.
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I have found it difficult to get a smooth start from rest. At first I put it down to poor clutch control on my part, as I found I had to really put my foot down on the accelerator because I had the feeling that the car would stall if I didn't. Sometimes I don't need to do that and the car will move off smoothly - other times it stalls or is about to. I've had the car (07 reg) for just over a year now and it's just the same as it was at the beginning.
As I've been driving for about 50 years using a huge variety of cars in that time, I don't think the problem is down to me!
I have been driving for over 50 years, I experience the above, and I too have had my Jazz for over a year. I think it is down to me. The Jazz is a relatively low powered vehicle (my 1.2 litre one certainly is), it has a relatively fierce clutch (I have driven cars where you could almost slip your foot off the side of the clutch and it would still take up smoothly), and it has a notoriously fickle accelerator (you can buy an electronic circuit to smooth the accelerator operation out). As a consequence, driving, as I do, with thick soled size 10's, requires more than a bit of finesse with the throttle and clutch.
The motorcycle I learned to ride on (Honda CB100N) was exactly the same. You just had to give it enough revs to get further up the torque curve, slip the clutch, and off you went. Smoothly. I find it is exactly the same with my Jazz.
Personally I have never had any doubts about the operation of my EGR valve. The engine performs flawlessly, fuel consumption is great, no judder at any speed once clutch is fully engaged, and no warning lights or codes.
If however, you think there is an issue, then a blank can be purchased for £3.89 from eBay, two bolts and you can try it and see.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-valve-blanking-plate-Honda-Accord-Prelude-Civic-Jazz-Shuttle-Petrol-engines/121234492470?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-valve-blanking-plate-Honda-Accord-Prelude-Civic-Jazz-Shuttle-Petrol-engines/121234492470?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VYIAAOSwwo1XfpEP/s-l500.jpg)
Thanks for your interesting reply! Like you, I find my Jazz performs flawlessly exactly as you describe. I get about 45 mpg which is not bad considering practically all my journeys in it are very local, typically around 5 miles each way! (We have a 2014 Jazz CVT as our other car which is used for longer runs, typically anything up to 170 miles each way). I get no problem pulling away if I give the accelerator some wellie but this can be embarrassing sometimes, taking me back to my learner days back in the late 60's! I guess I can only try the blanking-off idea and see if that makes any difference.
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Personally I have never had any doubts about the operation of my EGR valve. The engine performs flawlessly, fuel consumption is great, no judder at any speed once clutch is fully engaged, and no warning lights or codes.
IMHO and general consensus on 'tinternet seems to be that EGR more likely to give problems if car is constantly used for short local journeys and never gets a higher speed higher rev blast occasionally to burn off the crud that can build up in the EGR, especially the solenoid shaft. There are dire warnings on some politically correct sites that 'blanking off the EGR can cause your engine to overheat' by allowing combustion temperatures to rise etc. in fact when the EGR is working properly it actually reduces both the combustion temperature and engine power by replacing some of the oxygen in the combustion chamber with exhaust gas, which is also what happens when the EGR sticks open but then it reduces power and messes up the combustion at revs around tick-over and above (when you need good clean combustion to allow you to pull away smoothly).
Only time I have had jerky take-offs of Jazz and Civic I knew it was clutch related and I gave the clutches a good warm up by leaving handbrake on and deliberately slipping the clutch. My clutch control is pretty good but even I was unable to control the juddering when using normal revs to pull away and had to resort to winding the revs up and letting the clutch out as slowly as I could, but the 'Italian clutch tune-up' worked wonders and I had a smooth clutch afterwards.
Your first sentence describes my situation exactly - short local journeys and very rare high rev blasts!
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If its constantly gooing up, It might be not enough to clean just the valve.
In the old days it was just a case of cleaning a pipe. On the jazz you have to do a bit more dismantling.
Look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1xdHMWSFNM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1xdHMWSFNM)
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EGR codes popped up on my Jazz. I cleared them but they popped back up again after some local driving.
I plan to clean the EGR valve first and see if I can get rid of the codes... I'll let you know how it goes... if that fails I'll tackle a full EGR passages which will take a little more time... 310k KMs so I suspect a more thorough clean will be required.
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EGR codes popped up on my Jazz. I cleared them but they popped back up again after some local driving.
I plan to clean the EGR valve first and see if I can get rid of the codes... I'll let you know how it goes... if that fails I'll tackle a full EGR passages which will take a little more time... 310k KMs so I suspect a more thorough clean will be required.
I bought some stuff from halfords blasted through sorted it cost about £10 before that cleaned couple times
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EGR codes popped up on my Jazz. I cleared them but they popped back up again after some local driving.
I plan to clean the EGR valve first and see if I can get rid of the codes... I'll let you know how it goes... if that fails I'll tackle a full EGR passages which will take a little more time... 310k KMs so I suspect a more thorough clean will be required.
The fault code relates to if the EGR shaft is lifting when it should, whether the passages are clean or not will not affect it as the EGR feedback is purely solenoid lift and it does not know whether exhaust gas is actually going through it. The normal thing that happens is that crud builds up on shaft due to valve not being used and when it does open or partly open it cant close again properly (there is probably more force from solenoid to open it than there is from spring trying to close it again). This is like having a leak in intake system at low revs (when valve should be fully closed) and messes up the fueling and causes lack of power and jerking.
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Perfect explanation. Thank you!
The fault code relates to if the EGR shaft is lifting when it should, whether the passages are clean or not will not affect it as the EGR feedback is purely solenoid lift and it does not know whether exhaust gas is actually going through it. The normal thing that happens is that crud builds up on shaft due to valve not being used and when it does open or partly open it cant close again properly (there is probably more force from solenoid to open it than there is from spring trying to close it again). This is like having a leak in intake system at low revs (when valve should be fully closed) and messes up the fueling and causes lack of power and jerking.
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Oh well, my clean of the EGR valve cleared the engine light for a while but it returned.
The valve itself didn't look too bad but I noticed that the valve inside didn't shake or rattle while disconnected from the electrics and in my experience a working valve rattles and you can press the valve in easily. Mine is stuck fast.
I will have one more go to try and loosen the valve but the electrical components may have seized.
I wonder if I should attempt dismantling the actual valve?
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Oh well, my clean of the EGR valve cleared the engine light for a while but it returned.
The valve itself didn't look too bad but I noticed that the valve inside didn't shake or rattle while disconnected from the electrics and in my experience a working valve rattles and you can press the valve in easily. Mine is stuck fast.
I will have one more go to try and loosen the valve but the electrical components may have seized.
I wonder if I should attempt dismantling the actual valve?
I don't think the valve is easily dismantled, it all looks crimped together. I don't think it rattles either, the plunger is under quite strong spring tension to keep it closed, it's the solenoid that shoves it open. To move it, you have to pull it out, not push it in.
If you ease a fine bladed screwdriver under the edge of the plunger, you should be able to lift it enough to get a purchase on it - it's very hard steel, so doesn't mark easily. Once you can move it, you can flood the plunger with some carb cleaner or similar whilst giving it a bit of wiggle.
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I unplugged my EGR valve and sure enough the car was much smoother, no juddering in slow moving traffic. Plugged it back in and the judder returned, the check engine light remained lit but went out after a few days or 30 miles of normal driving, no need to disconnect the battery. Once the weather improves I'll give the EGR valve a good clean.
Note that my normal driving routine is 10 miles to work each way on mostly dual carriageway, so whilst it's a short trip the car is usually driven at 70mph were conditions allow, so the engine should have plenty of opportunity to breath.
I did try three tankfuls of Shell V Power back to back some months back and it *seemed* smoother, the judder was less noticeable but still present.
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An update on my EGR valve: cleaning doesn't unfreeze the valve. It is stuck fast.
I will motor to the local wreckers to find a second hand clean and seemingly function valve and try that - new ones (both Honda and unbranded) seem to retail for around $400 in Australia off eBay and much more from a retail shop or the dealer themselves.
I'll keep you updated.
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Managed to pick up not 1 but 2 used EGR valves from the local wreckers.
Because the cars were outdoors the EGR valve mounts looked a little, shall we say, rusty and the pistons and chambers themselves looked as blackened as my original faulty one did before I cleaned it.
I didn't hold out much hope but picked both up for $30 - the first one I fitted seems to have cleared the MIL, two days of driving and counting.
Seems that my original EGR valve was either seized beyond fixing or simply on its way out (over 300k KMs).
Got to love car wreckers.