Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: jonathan on January 28, 2019, 11:11:18 AM
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Good Morning All to you driving instructors/examiners.
Can i ask a question to settle.....
When you are travelling a dual carriageway (30mph) left hand lane with a fixed central reservation barrier and approach a side turning residential road on your left (30mph) and (20mph) should you glance into the road to ensure that there are not vehicles turning into the carriageway.
What is expected on the driving test??
Additionally, when you approach any road crossing, large or small would you get penalised in your test if you glanced to see if any vehicles were crossing or planning to enter your road...
Hope someone can help...
Thanks in advance.
Jonathan
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I would have thought you would be penalised for not checking. Item 21. Junctions: Observation.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/659103/dl25-driving-test-report-form.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/659103/dl25-driving-test-report-form.pdf)
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Hiya,
If you are continuing on the carriageway, past the side turning, a glance from a distance is just part of the general observation of driving you are not necessarily required to look into the junction as you pass it, unless you feel it is required.
If you are turning in to the junction look for hazards, pedestrians, parked cars, skips etc to ensure it is safe to proceed, if its not slow or stop as is required.
Ozzie, 23 years a driving instrutor
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Good Morning,
Quick question if i may to all you Jazzy driving instructors.
On the approach to this mini roundabout (with a left turning of roundabout ahead and straight on)
If you are approaching the mini roundabout and due to carry straight on up the hill. There is a car approaching the mini roundabout or even a car/s 5-6 car lengths away from the mini roundabout (cars approaching not indicating) , so presuming cars are going straight on, would you stop and wait for the approaching cars to leave the roundabout? or proceed with cautions i.e, in 1st gear rolling slowly across the mini roundabout as cars approach fro other side. Hope this makes sense....
Thanks
Jonatrhan
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I am not an instructor, just an experienced driver, but in this age of indicating when you feel like it I would wait to see where they were going. If they were far enough back that I could negotiate the roundabout without impeding their progress then I would go. I regularly negotiate a similar roundabout and as well as indicators you have to assess vehicle speed and position in the road.
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The first rule of safe driving is never to assume ( assume = ASS you make of U and ME ) what other vehicles are going to do, many people do not signal their intentions when approaching a roundabout and most don't even bother to go around those mini-roundabouts, they just drive straight across the centre. My wife calls the tiny ones 'fantasy islands'........
If another vehicle has their wheels over the give way line before you and decides to turn across in front of you, even though they are not signalling then you are in the wrong.
Are you asking the question for 'a friend' or have you been involved in a accident under the circumstances you describe ?
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Are you asking the question for 'a friend' or have you been involved in a accident under the circumstances you describe ?
No, My wife is learning to drive and has this query....
Thanks to all for the thoughts. if in doubt play safe...
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If another vehicle has their wheels over the give way line before you and decides to turn across in front of you, even though they are not signalling then you are in the wrong.
According to Rule 185 of the Highway Code: give priority to traffic approaching from your right,
So it is not just once they cross the give way signs that they have priority.
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Hi
I think these mini roundabouts should be removed
A lot were put in where junctions used to be and there not good at all
I have had so many near misses with vehicles going to fast and there only about a car length so not much before an accident
Also, since these were put in, there’s usually 3 entries/exits where we are, and delays are larger because where 3 cars approach, they all wait then they all set off again then stop then go...
The worse are those at speed or with 1 mini roundabout, most do not even look - I know because I watch them (you can clearly see the driver) so even when I have entered I always check to see if an approaching vehicle first looks to see traffic and gauge how fast there going - most blindly just go straight through whilst I stop to avoid accident- and they simply unaware of it....
In terms of who would be at fault - a minefield I think
Many thanks
John
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Raising mini roundabouts slightly, just a couple of inch kerb, would deter the straight line motorists, but wouldn't impede buses and trucks that are unable to go round them. Mind you, that would cost the councils money. They are happy to slap down some paint.
Around here all new housing and business parks have proper roundabouts installed, before construction starts, to allow easy access to the "main" road. There is one stretch I use where there are about 5 roundabouts with left and right stubs, where new estates have had planning permission.
The other thing would be strict enforcement if rules at mini roundabouts, but that will never happen.
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If another vehicle has their wheels over the give way line before you and decides to turn across in front of you, even though they are not signalling then you are in the wrong.
According to Rule 185 of the Highway Code: give priority to traffic approaching from your right,
So it is not just once they cross the give way signs that they have priority.
Yes maybe on a big island it is obvious that they are on the island and approaching you from your right and have right of way because they are already on the island and on bigger islands if you see a vehicle just entering the island at an entrance to your left and they have to do a circuit of the island pretty much every driver will judge whether they can enter the island without impeding the other vehicle, if everyone did not enter an island when another vehicle was anywhere on it traffic would grind to a halt.
Mini islands with maybe 3 exits all very close together are a pain. Interesting discussion here, http://www.roadsafetyknowledgecentre.org.uk/help-forum/741.html and the consensus seems to be that Rule 185 was written well before mini-roundabouts were introduced and need updating 'to give way to people already on the island - not simply approaching it and not onto it yet'..
Mini roundabout priority
The problem with the highway code is that the instructions for using roundabouts was written long before the introduction of mini roundabouts.
Alas the wording has not been updated.
In rule 185 this is the first paragraph:
'give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights'
The classic is the 'T' junction replaced with a mini roundabout.
A driver approaching the roundabout on the 'main' carriageway will perceive that they are on the right of the driver already at the roundabout, despite the fact that they are not yet on it.
Every carriageway comes to an end, at the end of the carriageway there is a line marking end of carriageway, this line is either a solid line meaning stop or a broken line meaning give way.
Until a driver has crossed that line they are still on their original carriageway and not yet on the roundabout.
Also note, at some roundabouts the give way line is a double broken line, this indicates that there is also a give way sign. Typically the carriageway nearest to the 'minor' carriageway will be marked like this.
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If you look at the markings on the mini roundabout in the PDF attachment of the OP you will see one of the roads has a double dashed white line across it and the other two have single dashed white line, this means the car approaching / waiting at the double dashed line has to give right of way to cars at the single dashed white line..
This is common on mini-roundabouts where sometimes with cars so close together it can get tricky - bet you will look out for the difference in the white lines from now on.....
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All the mini roundabouts round here have one line.
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I hate mini roundabouts, half the drivers on the road haven't a clue what they are doing.
There was one on a regular journey I made that replaced a crossroads, all four entries were marked up with double-dashed lines and associated give way signs, not that it made a blind bit of difference. It's now been replaced again with traffic controlled traffic lights.
One double dashed give-way is the norm, as culzean says, and most (if not all) of them are marked thus around here.
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Hi
As jocko all mini roundabouts here have only single dash line - 1 mini roundabout is opposite police station and a supermarket on a busy road. But cars que on roundabout which blocks everything including police cars trying to leave police station. They even que on the yellow box outside fire station, which is at the side of police station. Worst still, almost opposite the police station is a doctors/pharmacy with double yellow lines and cars park half on pavement but still block traffic as well. All this by the police station...
Many thanks
John
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Found the definitive guides. It would appear single lines are the norm and where they may be overlooked then a Give Way sign and double lines are used. Both have the same legal requirement.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561491/mini-roundabouts-report.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561491/mini-roundabouts-report.pdf)
and Section 6.3 here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/773421/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/773421/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf)
Amazing where threads take is on this forum!
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I teach in London and in this situation, I would tell my pupil to go in 2nd gear if no one is signalling right. If you stop and wait you will probably increasing the risks of someone hitting you from behind. Obviously as other members says, be cautious of drivers not signalling and I tell my pupils to put their thumb on the horn in case.
The other situation that needs more attention imo is drivers doing U -Turns on mini roundabouts. Usually they approach very slowing, turning their steering frantically, and looking at you. They are the worst in my opinion. And I hate those who turn left on the right and don't signal...I always used the horn to show my dissatisfaction!
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I always used the horn to show my dissatisfaction!
What would be the examiners reaction if a pupil did that on their test?
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Thanks for all your advice.
From what i have gleened from your posts the best advice is to.
If the approaching car is near the roundabout, say less than 5 car lengths to wait for car to leave the roundabout untill you proceed onto the roundabout.
Jonathan
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If the approaching car is near the roundabout, say less than 5 car lengths to wait for car to leave the roundabout untill you proceed onto the roundabout.
As an experienced driver I would adjust my approach speed to allow the other vehicle to reach the roundabout before me, so I didn't have to stop, but I realise learners have so much more to think about that makes set rules easier to follow.
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I always used the horn to show my dissatisfaction!
What would be the examiners reaction if a pupil did that on their test?
Hahaha Jocko...the 2nd paragraph is me, as a member! But true though, many of these drivers think is ok not to signal and don't even know how it affects everyday traffic!
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Quote from "123Drive!"
"I teach in London and in this situation, I would tell my pupil to go in 2nd gear if no one is signalling right. If you stop and wait you will probably increasing the risks of someone hitting you from behind. Obviously as other members says, be cautious of drivers not signalling and I tell my pupils to put their thumb on the horn in case."
........Surely letting your pupils carry on onto the roundabout when there is approaching car on your right is bad practice.... Even a major fault on the test.
I think ill stick to waiting for the traffic to leave the roundabout till you drive on.....
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........Surely letting your pupils carry on onto the roundabout when there is approaching car on your right is bad practice.... Even a major fault on the test.
I would think that stopping could also be classed as undue hesitancy, examiners seem to be quite hot on that.
If the car to your right has not yet reached the roundabout, you must have right of way once you are on the roundabout. Of course, you have to make a judgement as to the speed of the approaching car, and the likelihood that they would be able to stop, but if they are a few car lengths away from the roundabout, I will generally pull out.
We have one near us which is terrible. It replaced a T-junction on a (now) 40 mph road, visibility is restricted, and coming from town, you can drive over the roundabout as though it didn't exist, in both directions. Many drivers do, at 40mph plus, and I've had a few ding-dongs with other drivers when I am joining from the side road.
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5 car lengths from the roundabout is safe to go, in my opinion.
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5 car lengths from the roundabout is safe to go, in my opinion.
I would certainly agree with that, any less and you have to make the judgement.
I've no problem holding someone up that thinks they can tear over a roundabout with complete impunity, so long as I don't make it easy for them to bash my back wing in.
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Jonathan I think according to your photo, the car is coming from straight ahead and technically, I will only give priority "if" the 3rd party is signalling right. Of course if there are 3 exits on a mini roundabout and 3rd party is approaching on my right without signal, I would definitely stop.
To be faIr, probably best to let your wife's instructor to give her the right advice because each circumstances may be unique.
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Jonathan I think according to your photo, the car is coming from straight ahead and technically, I will only give priority "if" the 3rd party is signalling right. Of course if there are 3 exits on a mini roundabout and 3rd party is approaching on my right without signal, I would definitely stop.
To be faIr, probably best to let your wife's instructor to give her the right advice because each circumstances may be unique.
I think it’s best to wait if the car is approaching near the roundabout as per the Highway Code.
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123drive!
“Jonathan I think according to your photo, the car is coming from straight ahead and technically, I will only give priority "if" the 3rd party is signalling right”
Surely u would give way regardless of if they signalled or not. You have to give way to the right. Back to the “assume” rule :)
Some would say you would give bad advice, and from a instructor.
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Bear in mind if the car is 5 car lengths away and not indicating and indeed goes straight on, the examiner will mark it as undue hesitation as the car went exactly where it indicated that it would. Not indicating is the signal for straight on. This is the frustration driving instructors face all day, every day !
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Jonathan I found this video which may help your wife.
If you have a vehicle on the right and it's signalling left on a 3 exit mini roundabout, I would plan to go if the vehicle looks like it's turning left. Otherwise wait. Hopes that clarifies my earlier post.