Author Topic: Brexit and the scare mongers  (Read 24866 times)

guest4871

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »

Interesting read. Several words spring to mind on the way things have been and continue to be handled but it's Sunday.

+1

Very troubling.

guest1372

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2018, 10:15:43 PM »
.... but I hope you are all wise enough to be able to distinguish between opinion pieces by anti-EU campaign groups and facts.
--
TG

culzean

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2018, 10:38:03 PM »
.... but I hope you are all wise enough to be able to distinguish between opinion pieces by anti-EU campaign groups and facts.
--
TG

It's all fact, released under that damn 30 year rule designed to protect people with stuff to hide until it no longer matters, the statute of limitations has kicked in, or they are dead and can't be prosecuted for their actions,  do they still hang people for high treason ?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/9233096/Europe-alienates-us-all-as-foretold-40-years-ago.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/883540/FCO-30-1048-Brexit-EU-secret-document-damned-Britain-EU-membership

Just shows the utter contempt politicians hold the electorate in..
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 10:57:19 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

MartinJG

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2018, 11:09:11 PM »
.... but I hope you are all wise enough to be able to distinguish between opinion pieces by anti-EU campaign groups and facts.
--
TG

There are always two sides to an argument. That is fundamental to democratic principles. The problem I have with the EU assembly and their politics is the lack of accountability. They are really little more than a self appointed body of people who consider they know best and are qualified to rule accordingly. That is a poor state of affairs to put it mildly. At least we have the opportunity of holding our own homegrown politicians to account every few years and hopefully achieving some consensus.

Jocko

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2018, 06:18:47 AM »
Latest anti Brexit scaremongering. Supposed US lobbying to have geographical name protections dropped so that they can make and sell Cornish pasties, Scotch whisky, Cumberland sausage and such.
https://inews.co.uk/news/us-lobbying-uk-drop-food-name-protections-sell-cornish-pasties/


sparky Paul

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2018, 05:04:56 PM »
The problem I have with the EU assembly and their politics is the lack of accountability. They are really little more than a self appointed body of people who consider they know best and are qualified to rule accordingly.

Presumably, you didn't vote for any of the UK's MEPs?

culzean

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2018, 06:33:06 PM »
The problem I have with the EU assembly and their politics is the lack of accountability. They are really little more than a self appointed body of people who consider they know best and are qualified to rule accordingly.

Presumably, you didn't vote for any of the UK's MEPs?

Unfortunately the power lies with the  EU commission who are not elected,   not the elected parliament of MEP's (who are just there to give a veneer / illusion of democracy).
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 06:44:24 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

MartinJG

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2018, 07:22:50 PM »
The problem I have with the EU assembly and their politics is the lack of accountability. They are really little more than a self appointed body of people who consider they know best and are qualified to rule accordingly.

Presumably, you didn't vote for any of the UK's MEPs?

sparky P

A touch mischievous. I voted for the UKIP party whom I felt best represented UK interests along with many others it seems. The majority in fact. Not my normal party of choice which appeared to suffer from stagefright when it mattered most. I would add that had the EU 'whip hands' been more amenable to grassroot views in the UK, things might have been different, but they clearly have their own agenda, as do we. We are where we are.

PS - I think it is ironic that Cameron's decision to offer a referendum was perhaps unwittingly his finest hour and will probably haunt him for the rest of his days. If nothing else it has opened up a proper debate on the future direction of the UK.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 08:16:30 PM by MartinJG »

culzean

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2018, 08:20:48 PM »
After Italian election result we may not have an EU to leave by this time next year.  Try telling the Italians they can't have a hard border with France and Spain..........

EU, the political project built on foundation's of sand, the reaction time of the EU to anything is measured in decades. Crisis, what crisis ?
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2018, 09:13:45 PM »
PS - I think it is ironic that Cameron's decision to offer a referendum was perhaps unwittingly his finest hour and will probably haunt him for the rest of his days. If nothing else it has opened up a proper debate on the future direction of the UK.
I just wish that he had said that there would need to be a majority of the electorate in favour of Brexit to trigger the exit process.
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guest1372

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2018, 09:50:05 PM »
..... a majority of the electorate in favour ...
51.9% x 71.8% = 37.26%
The threshold for public servants to call industrial action is 40%.
--
TG


sparky Paul

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2018, 11:00:02 PM »
A touch mischievous.

Sorry Martin, it seemed in keeping with the thread.  ;)

I just wish that he had said that there would need to be a majority of the electorate in favour of Brexit to trigger the exit process.

Indeed, for a vote with such long-term consequences, a simple majority vote is normally insufficient. This is not about electing someone who can be removed in 4-5 years or less, this is an irreversible change which should require it to be generally seen that most people really want to take the step. In such cases, it is common practice to require a 'supermajority', for example, over 50% of the electorate, or alternatively over 2/3 of those who voted, with a minimum turnout. If change is genuinely 'generally seen',  it should be easy to get a supermajority.

Anyway, all that is now academic. We are where we are, and the question is not if, but how. Cameron's mistake was his confidence that he could put this away, once and for all, by setting the bar low and winning a simple majority vote. As one of Cameron's fellow dinner guests famously said to his face, "not even my golf club alters its rules by a simple majority vote".

Jocko

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2018, 06:56:11 AM »
..... a majority of the electorate in favour ...
51.9% x 71.8% = 37.26%
The threshold for public servants to call industrial action is 40%.
--
TG
Perhaps it is time we joined countries like Australia and Belgium, where voting is mandatory. If not in all elections, at least in referendum. My opinion is, if you didn't vote, then take what you get.

ColinS

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2018, 07:03:27 AM »
My opinion is, if you didn't vote, then take what you get.
+1

sparky Paul

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Re: Brexit and the scare mongers
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2018, 08:26:41 AM »
Perhaps it is time we joined countries like Australia and Belgium, where voting is mandatory. If not in all elections, at least in referendum. My opinion is, if you didn't vote, then take what you get.

Another way to look at it, 37% voted for Brexit, 35% voted against, and the other 28% were so incensed by our continued membership of the EU that they couldn't be arsed to vote.

On a major constitutional issue like this, the supermajority argument is essentially that abstention should be a vote for the status quo. If the people really want change, they should at least have to vote for it.

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