Author Topic: Another year, another service  (Read 3312 times)

andruec

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Another year, another service
« on: January 26, 2018, 03:58:40 PM »
..and unlike last year no tyre warning :)

Thank you to everyone who recommended Michelin Energy savers. Fronts are only down to 6mm and rears are down to 7mm (although I thought they started there anyway, lol).

Of more interest my courtesy car was a CVT Jazz this time. And I can report that the new model has a modified CVT. It appears not to have the dead zone at low revs. I'm not entirely sure as I've long worked out how to avoid it with the old CVT but it seemed more willing to rev the engine when the loud pedal was gently pressed.

What has definitely changed is how it reacts to a heavy foot. On mine the revs kick up to 4.5k then gradually rise to the red line. On the new model the revs jump to 4.5k then fairly rapidly climb to 6k before dropping back to 4.5k and starting another climb. So the bad news is that some fool has modified the programming to make it sound like a conventional gear box. The good news is that they've actually done a good job and although you can hear the difference you don't feel any loss of power so it seems to be cosmetic.

Even more interesting though is that after it's done its little song and dance it hangs onto the revs and they become nicely tied to the accelerator so you can control your (probably excessive) speed using just the accelerator. It seems to be putting the box into sport mode temporarily, unlike mine which if you lift off just lets the revs bleed back down and doesn't provide a great deal of engine braking.

So I'm a bit miffed at the silly 'pretend I have to change gear' effect but it doesn't detract from the feel and you do get some handy accelerator pedal control which if you've already been silly enough to wake the beast could help enhance the experience. It further confirms my view that the 1.5l+CVT is going to be quite a nice car for those who occasionally like to be a bit silly :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 04:00:22 PM by andruec »

peteo48

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 04:18:59 PM »
So, just for info, let's say you accelerate away from the lights but you are in a 50 limit. How soon do the revs come down once you've reached 50 and are going to stay at that speed for a bit? Just curious because I am now pretty sure my next car will be an auto box of some sort and CVT seems to be the most likely.

andruec

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 06:10:08 PM »
So, just for info, let's say you accelerate away from the lights but you are in a 50 limit. How soon do the revs come down once you've reached 50 and are going to stay at that speed for a bit? Just curious because I am now pretty sure my next car will be an auto box of some sort and CVT seems to be the most likely.
Depends how you do it. If you're sensible with the accelerator they will drop to below 2,000 rpm immediately on both cars. However if you have floored it then on my current model they will drop first of all to around 3,000 then after half a dozen seconds will drop back below 2,000rpm. On the new model I'm not sure. 50mph won't be enough I don't think to trigger the fake down shift so they will probably do the same as mine.

But if you floor it to 70 as I did (a slip road on the A34 outside Oxford so I had a good reason) then if you lift off completely the revs will rapidly drop down and you'll get quite a lot of engine braking. It felt quite natural and I immediately realised that gently lifting off was more appropriate. I played with the accelerator for a bit to confirm that I could use it to control the speed then after a few more seconds the revs dropped a bit more and I realised that normality had returned.

All in all I enjoyed the drive. I'd like to have more time to see if the low down dead spot really is fixed (on my current model you have to give the accelerator a definite jab at 20mph to move the engine into performance mode) but I think the changes at the top end might remove some of the anti-CVT luddite complaints. It doesn't 'sound like there's an elastic band' any longer. I'm just not hugely enamoured of faking the sound of a less advanced gearbox.

Only thing about the service I'm not happy about is that they claim I have 20% wear on my front discs and 10% on my rear. Given how little I use my brakes I don't believe it. Even if that represents 23,000 miles of driving :(
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 06:14:37 PM by andruec »

John A

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 08:41:50 PM »
Only thing about the service I'm not happy about is that they claim I have 20% wear on my front discs and 10% on my rear. Given how little I use my brakes I don't believe it. Even if that represents 23,000 miles of driving :(

I'd guess nowadays that you'll either have to replace the dics due to corrosion, due to lack of use, more often than if you use them a reasonable amount.

Rory

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 11:40:55 PM »
I'd guess nowadays that you'll either have to replace the dics due to corrosion, due to lack of use, more often than if you use them a reasonable amount.

Had them replaced on my Merc at 45K miles as the fronts had got very pitted - and that was under a Mercedes service plan, so not like the dealer was scamming me.  I pretty well only use it for long motorway trips and the rest of the time it sits there with the discs going rusty.

The dealer was baffled at first as they thought the pads were new as they were only 10% worn and couldn't understand why the disc wasn't clean if it had got through a set of pads.

The wear % the dealers give are very approximate anyway - they're only doing it from a quick visual check.

Downsizer

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2018, 01:52:30 PM »
..and unlike last year no tyre warning :)

Thank you to everyone who recommended Michelin Energy savers. Fronts are only down to 6mm and rears are down to 7mm (although I thought they started there anyway, lol).

Of more interest my courtesy car was a CVT Jazz this time. And I can report that the new model has a modified CVT. It appears not to have the dead zone at low revs. I'm not entirely sure as I've long worked out how to avoid it with the old CVT but it seemed more willing to rev the engine when the loud pedal was gently pressed.

What has definitely changed is how it reacts to a heavy foot. On mine the revs kick up to 4.5k then gradually rise to the red line. On the new model the revs jump to 4.5k then fairly rapidly climb to 6k before dropping back to 4.5k and starting another climb. So the bad news is that some fool has modified the programming to make it sound like a conventional gear box. The good news is that they've actually done a good job and although you can hear the difference you don't feel any loss of power so it seems to be cosmetic.

Even more interesting though is that after it's done its little song and dance it hangs onto the revs and they become nicely tied to the accelerator so you can control your (probably excessive) speed using just the accelerator. It seems to be putting the box into sport mode temporarily, unlike mine which if you lift off just lets the revs bleed back down and doesn't provide a great deal of engine braking.

So I'm a bit miffed at the silly 'pretend I have to change gear' effect but it doesn't detract from the feel and you do get some handy accelerator pedal control which if you've already been silly enough to wake the beast could help enhance the experience. It further confirms my view that the 1.5l+CVT is going to be quite a nice car for those who occasionally like to be a bit silly :)
I haven't been able to find the official consumption, emission and acceleration figures for the 2018 1.3 cvt Jazz.  If they are unchanged from the 2016 model, this suggests there hasn't been any significant cvt reprogramming.  The Honda web-site only offers the brochure for the 2016 model as yet, and the local dealer is offering them with 5 years free servicing and a "£1000" test drive deal, so they must be anxious to clear old stock.

culzean

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2018, 03:48:54 PM »
Only thing about the service I'm not happy about is that they claim I have 20% wear on my front discs and 10% on my rear. Given how little I use my brakes I don't believe it. Even if that represents 23,000 miles of driving :(

I'd guess nowadays that you'll either have to replace the dics due to corrosion, due to lack of use, more often than if you use them a reasonable amount.

The rear discs on my wifes GE were already corroded very badly at around 3 years old with 36K on the clock so not corroded from lack of use, first MOT note was 'rear discs corroded but structurally OK' - take a look at PDF photo attached and think if you would have passed them ?  I had already bought new discs and pads before MOT but decided to see if they would pass in that condition - and they did.  I fitted the new discs and pads just after MOT.  Just shows how much of braking effort the rear discs contribute.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 03:53:54 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Skyrider

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2018, 05:18:57 PM »
I believe that the Vehicle Stability Assist system uses the brakes to improve cornering feel and turn in. You may not be directly causing all the brake wear with the brake pedal.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 05:21:20 PM by Deeps »

andruec

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2018, 09:20:22 PM »
I believe that the Vehicle Stability Assist system uses the brakes to improve cornering feel and turn in. You may not be directly causing all the brake wear with the brake pedal.
I'd hope I don't trigger it very often. I'm not a hooligan - far from it. 6mm still left on front tyres after 10k miles ought to suggest that :)

Skyrider

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 08:59:56 AM »
The VSA can be quite subtle in some cars, it is not only a system that attempts to save those drivers who are defying the laws of physics. On checking it seems the Jazz is not that clever.

John A

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Re: Another year, another service
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 11:23:48 AM »
The most expensive way of using a car nowadays is not to use it, especially if it needs an MOT as all the discs will probably need replacing if the car isn't used for a long while. I guess it's since the asbestos was removed from brake pads, and now the discs are more often in need of replacement compared to the pads.

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