Transition for manual to CVT - initial thoughts.

[andruec]

The "drone" and noise complainers need to manage their expectations, it is a supermini optimised for urban use, not a luxury autobahn stormer.

That's true but to be fair once you've worked out how to use the accelerator it is as sprightly as almost anyone else on the road. I am rarely 'left behind' by anyone and if I'm at the head of a queue I usually leave everyone else behind when the way becomes clear. In my experience very few people use all the power they have under their right foot. Of course it's somewhat relative: Only using a bit a of what a 1 litre engine can give does less than only using a bit of what a 2 litre engine can give. But I have found that by using 'quite a bit of' my 1.3 litre engine I usually out accelerate the majority. And no, that doesn't mean I floor the accelerator at every opportunity. I've just learnt the sweet spot and movement that will bump the car straight up to 3,000 rpm.

It's really only the speedsters (typically driving BMWs or Audis) that require me to really push the car. Even then I rarely feel the need to get out of their way. There's a short stretch of dual carriageway leading away from Banbury up a steep(ish) hill and if I'm feeling frisky I can often lead the charge up there and it's not often that I feel like I'm being pushed. More often I'm having to hold back.

So what I'd say is that the Honda Jazz (manual or CVT) is a very performant 1.3 litre car. If you're not scared of working the accelerator pedal you will get all the acceleration that is required the vast majority of the time. The only cars that you might hold up through lack of engine power are - frankly - those who could probably do with calming down anyway.

[JazzandJag]

My HR-V has a very similar engine without the Atkinson cycle mode and can smoothly accelerate with rpm slowly increasing as the speed increases. How does the Jazz Sport behave in this respect?

I have done less than 100 miles so far in the Sport, all around urban roads, but it is clear that there is a lot more power available from standstill and the engine responds well to just a little extra throttle input rather than having to put the pedal well over half way down as I had to do with the 1.3 when in Atkinson mode. Overall I am very pleased and the performance will no doubt improve once I have done a few more miles.

It would be interesting to know how a 1.3 without the Atkinson cycle would perform. I would expect it to be more responsive but with a fuel consumption penalty.

[Kenneve]

+1 to Andruec's comments regarding the 'get up and go' of the Mk3 Jazz

[Pine]

Does the Sport have firmer suspension and sports style seats?  And is the engine/gearbox the same as in the HRV?

[JazzandJag]

Does the Sport have firmer suspension and sports style seats?  And is the engine/gearbox the same as in the HRV?

As far as I can tell the seats are the same as in the EX but with some feature stitching and a unique pattern on the seat faces. Similarly the suspension feels just the same. I have never driven a HRV but it looks like the powertrain is the same.

[peteo48]

The "drone" and noise complainers need to manage their expectations, it is a supermini optimised for urban use, not a luxury autobahn stormer.

I think that's fair comment.

[Dayjo]

The "drone" and noise complainers need to manage their expectations, it is a supermini optimised for urban use, not a luxury autobahn stormer.

Sorry..... If, sounding like a bag of marbles, is optimised. No wonder I was disappointed!

I expected the latest model's development, to be more refined, in urban use. Not less!

[andruec]

The "drone" and noise complainers need to manage their expectations, it is a supermini optimised for urban use, not a luxury autobahn stormer.

Sorry..... If, sounding like a bag of marbles, is optimised. No wonder I was disappointed!

I expected the latest model's development, to be more refined, in urban use. Not less!

There must be something very wrong with your Jazz if the engine sounds like a bag of marbles. I'd accept 'drones' or 'growls' or even (at high revs) 'howls'. But I would never describe the engine noise produced by any of the Mk3 Jazz that I've driven as 'a bag of marbles'. And compared with other cars I've ridden in or driven recently the most negative thing I'd say about Jazz engine noise is 'It's a bit loud and raw when you rev it hard'. But you don't often have to rev it really hard anyway.

[Dayjo]

Well.... I guess, that's me, put in my place.....

[Hebden]

Just looping the loop around it is fastest routes. Or it was today.Very disconcerting to be offered alternative routes to save time along the way. Thought it best to ignore that.

I think it has a deep purr suggesting strength!

[andruec]

Well.... I guess, that's me, put in my place.....

Lol, sorry, I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I just really struggle to understand how any noise the Jazz engine makes can be said to sound like a back of marbles. To me that description sounds like tappet or bearing issues.

[Dayjo]

Well.... I guess, that's me, put in my place.....

Lol, sorry, I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I just really struggle to understand how any noise the Jazz engine makes can be said to sound like a back of marbles. To me that description sounds like tappet or bearing issues.

No problem, Andruec! 

I was referring to my posting, on page 1.......

I can understand, drone.....

Today, I had a few hours with an EX Navi, courtesy car. Mk 3. 67 reg. 150 miles on clock.

Initial acceleration, needed the revs, at 2,000+. Sounding like a bag of marbles....
 When forward motion had been achieved. The revs then could drop to 1,500, to maintain sensible, town progress.

It needed a burst of revs, to overcome inertia. Then dropping back, when movement occurred. As though there was nil power below 2,000.

My 15 reg, Mk2. CVT, in the same circumstances. Will pull away, quietly, at 1,100rpm. Maintaining these revs, during town driving.

Frankly. I was a little disappointed, by this foible.

I am quite sure, I can easily develop an appropriate throttle technique.....

Hope so! Cos, I have an EX Navi on order. Delivery early April..... 

[John Ratsey]

I am quite sure, I can easily develop an appropriate throttle technique.....

Hope so! Cos, I have an EX Navi on order. Delivery early April..... 

To keep the engine out of the noisy zone you will need a very light touch on the accelerator and accept that acceleration will be slow. I've been there. This engine behaviour was one reason I traded in my Mk 3 for an HR-V.

I have to wonder whether you would be well-advised to change your order to the Jazz Sport. Not because you need the extra headline power but because of the better low end performance which delivers smooth acceleration without the engine getting into the noisy zone. Every now and again I deliberately give a couple of tugs on the left paddle on my HR-V in order to clear a few cobwebs out of the engine as this doesn't happen during normal usage.

[Dayjo]

John.
 I have already changed my enquiry, from a sport. As it's spec. lacks several "must haves", for me. (Though, an EX, with a 1.5 engine would be my idea of perfection).....

I was amazed, how slow my present Jazz's, initial acceleration was. Compared to my previous, Yaris cvt.
 I'm sure, I will soon develop the necessary throttle technique......

[peteo48]

John.
 I have already changed my enquiry, from a sport. As it's spec. lacks several "must haves", for me. (Though, an EX, with a 1.5 engine would be my idea of perfection).....

I was amazed, how slow my present Jazz's, initial acceleration was. Compared to my previous, Yaris cvt.
 I'm sure, I will soon develop the necessary throttle technique......

The whole thing with 0-60 times is so subjective. Just thinking about some of my old cars and also some current 0-60 times.

1) 1.3 Jazz CVT - 12.2 secs
2) Toyota Yaris Hybrid (test driven) - 11.8 secs
3) Nissan Leaf - 11.8 secs
4) VW Golf 1.9 Tdi - 11.3 secs

These 4 cars are pretty much in the same ball park but it's the torque. The Nissan Leaf feels really quick off the mark. My VW Golf - well I can hardly believe it is comparable in the 0-60 stakes to my current car. The Golf felt like a drag racer is comparison.

The whole torque thing is down to how effortless it feels. Push the Jazz hard and it will do the figures I'm sure. I have noticed a pronounced difference when dropping into S mode.

But do we buy cars like the Jazz for performance? I buy it for practicality (it spends a lot of life as a shopping trolley) ease of driving, mechanical reliability etc etc. If I'd wanted performance, £13 k will buy you a pretty decent BMW 3 Series (about 5 years old).