Author Topic: Alternative Gearbox oil.  (Read 283 times)

vincereynard

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Alternative Gearbox oil.
« on: November 10, 2017, 03:45:12 PM »
Hello again everyone.

I have just reacquired a 2006 GE Jazz off No 2 son.  (It was mine when new for a short while.)

The gearbox is a bit crunchy 1st to 2nd and I wondered if an oil change would benefit it. Worth a try as it has never been done as far as I know.

Are there an alternative oils recommended for older gearboxes other than official Honda these days?

It is a bit of a culture shock coming back to it after 10 years!

Other than dead steering it seems sound enough.  Although I seem to recall that the steering never was a strong point.




Andy83

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 04:12:57 PM »
Hello mate if you going to change the oil I would say stick to Honda own gearbox fluid...
Thanks
Andy

Jocko

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 04:13:21 PM »
My Honda: 06 mk1 (?) jazz - if you check your VIN number you will get an accurate description of the vehicle.
JHMGD57106S****** GD5 is my model and 6S is the year and trim level.

TG

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 06:25:44 PM »
Yep, changed gearbox oil solved my slightly dodgy 1st & 2nd selection.  Of course CVT people should only use the Honda CVT-F fluid but the choice is wider for us manual (& i-Shift) folks.  In a pinch the the handbook says you can use engine oil as a temporary measure as it's not that different, the basic viscosity specs for gearbox and engine oils overlap somewhat although the scales used are quite different *.  Wear/frictional characteristics & cold flow differ because it's flung about rather than pushed around it needs more 'cling'.

MTF numbers are just manufacturers designations.  The recommended Honda manual gear oil for the GD is MTF-3 at about 10 a litre, although Rover/Land Rover/Mini MTF-94 at 20 for 5 litres is the same stuff.  You won't find MTF-3 at most factors but they will have MTF-94, or gear oil using the spec  75W-80 GL4.   Many dealers won't have it either as most networks have an exclusive supply agreement with Castrol so they may supply Castrol Syntrans FE 75W

GL4 means medium EP, "EP means extreme pressure and refers to the additive used in gear oils. This additive is designed to stop metal-to-metal contact taking place between transmission components. The EP additives are usually based on sulphur and phosphorous. These elements bond to the metal surfaces where there are points of extreme pressure and temperature, forming a sacrificial chemical layer. The sulphur gives gear oils their characteristic smell."

Draining / filling is quite easy but you do need a 3/8" square drive to remove the plug and fill until level with the hole.  A funnel & hose helps a lot.
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TG

* 75W90 gear oil is equivalent viscosity to 10W40 engine oil

vincereynard

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 07:47:54 PM »
Thank you all for the replies.

My Honda: 06 mk1 (?) jazz - if you check your VIN number you will get an accurate description of the vehicle.
JHMGD57106S****** GD5 is my model and 6S is the year and trim level.

JHMGD17506S***** - they are virtually sisters.


MTF numbers are just manufacturers designations.  The recommended Honda manual gear oil for the GD is MTF-3 at about 10 a litre, although Rover/Land Rover/Mini MTF-94 at 20 for 5 litres is the same stuff.  You won't find MTF-3 at most factors but they will have MTF-94, or gear oil using the spec  75W-80 GL4

Draining / filling is quite easy but you do need a 3/8" square drive to remove the plug and fill until level with the hole.  A funnel & hose helps a lot.
--
TG

Thanks for that - most interesting.

http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/genuine-honda-mtf3-manual-transmission-fluid-1-litre-p-993.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7eGTk6u01wIVZpPtCh2_RQCrEAQYASABEgLQg_D_BwE

As you say, loads of MTF-94 available.

Next question - how much is needed and where is the filler plug?  I bought a digital worshop manual but it has never worked.

Then I must get the tracking checked, I had a new front bearing fitted for the MoT and it does steer a trifle strangely.

culzean

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 08:15:08 PM »
The filler and drain plugs are both on near side of car engine, the drain plug is 3/8" female square, at a pinch you can use 3/8" drive socket set wrench which will fit directly into it.

Seem to remember fill plug is 17mm a/f male hexagon.

Make sure you can get to and slacken the fill plug before you take out drain plug, as you may drain the box and have no way to refill it if our cannot get fill plug out.

Space is limited and I had to use a funnel and plastic tube to get oil back into gearbox, the good news is that when oil is at correct level it will start to overflow out of filling hole.  Make sure car is on the level when refilling.

Have attached a PDF of picture from Haynes manual showing drain and fill plugs.

capacity is 1.5 litres,  workshop bloke at local Honda said normal fully synth engine oil is OK to use, but I prefer the proper stuff and a few years ago I used Castrol SMS-X but its been replaced by Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 now I think.  No point in putting cheap oil in as only a small amount needed and it will last 70K,  I used molyslip gearbox additive in mine as well and when I traded it in with 120,000 miles on the clock the gearbox was still not making the dreaded whining noise in lower gears.  It also made the already slick Jazz gearbox action even slicker.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 08:41:13 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 08:42:14 PM »
JHMGD17506S***** - they are virtually sisters.
A Mk 1 1.4 i-DSi. Be aware. The i-DSi has eight spark plugs. Four at the front of the engine, and four at the back.

vincereynard

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 11:17:28 PM »
Culzean - thanks for that.  I am surprised about the Molyslip.  The only time I tried that was in a Mini ( a real one) and it ruined the syncro. action. Gearbox stuff must be different.

Jocko - all that was done about 6 months ago.  I did a full engine service, changed the rear hubs and brakes. (discs , calipers & pads).  Handed it back running sweetly.  Now it comes back wrecked again. I don't know how he does it!

culzean

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 09:08:01 AM »
Culzean - thanks for that.  I am surprised about the Molyslip.  The only time I tried that was in a Mini ( a real one) and it ruined the syncro. action. Gearbox stuff must be different.

Synchro has come a long way since British Leyland efforts,  I had an original Mini as well and as I remember no synchro on 1st,  so had to double-declutch from 2nd to 1st.   Baulk ring assemblies have meshing teeth on them now to actively align the gear teeth,  not just smooth faces to match the speed of gears (which need friction to work properly).  If you do get a crunching noise on a modern box it will be baulk ring teeth, not the actual gear teeth.

I have put gearbox moly in all my Civic and Jazz manual boxes, never a hint of trouble with the gearboxes. I normally pre-mix the moly and oil in the squirty bottle the oil comes in (but I found these bottles to be of limited use on Jazz due to limited access to the fill-'ole,  and used a funnel and plastic tube, the funnel was up by the battery - I only use an 8mm ID tube so oil takes a while to move down,  luckily not a huge amount of oil to fill). 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

vincereynard

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 12:09:01 AM »
3 litres of oil and Moly are on order.  I shall report back if it does the trick!  The problem will be -  was it the oil or the moly?  Interestingly 3 > 2 is slick, which I would have thought was harder on the syncro that 1 > 2.

It still steers peculiarly!

I've bought 3 litres so I can also do my wife's shopping trolley Hyundai I10, which is just starting to develop the same "snick".

Jocko

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Re: Alternative Gearbox oil.
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 07:50:52 AM »
It still steers peculiarly!
Pop into Kwik Fit, or the like, and get the tracking checked. You only have to pay if it needs adjusting.

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