Author Topic: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?  (Read 1678 times)

PJ Hall

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2017, 01:36:25 PM »
It seems this conversation has become about CVT versus manual, but to go back to the original question l bought a new MK2 EX in 2013 and changed to a Mk3 EX a year ago.my feeling is that the MK3 is a much more accomplished, grown up and modern car compared to the previous models.Yes l do miss the panoramic roof ( one of the best features ) and the split level floor in the boot as others have mentioned, but not those awful door handles.The MK3 door hadles are much better.l liked the ergonomic dash board on the Mk2 and also think the seats were more comfortable. But the MK3 surpasses the old model in every other respect.I have the EX Navi and have not had a problem at all with the infotainment unit nor the digital controls for the heater etc. Though l will admit all the tech takes a bit of understanding and getting used to.mine is a manual and although you do have to use the gearbox in a different way to the five speed in the previous models l much prefer it to the CVT. I think as part of the cars function is autonomous Honda have gone a long way to future proofing the car that is as up to date ( and more) than most of the competition and many more expensive luxury cars.

ColinB

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2017, 01:51:11 PM »
One thing that is concerning me, having read loads of contributions on Revoo but also on Which, is criticism of the manual gearbox. The one in both the Mk1 and the Mk2 are class leading but I'm hearing reports of notchiness and clunkiness. Many see the Mk3 gearbox as inferior to that on the Mk2.!
Generalising about the smoothness or otherwise of the gearchange is always going to be subjective. However in your case you donít need to be subjective: your original post said youíre interested in one of the low-mileage examples your local dealer has, so you can test drive the very car youíre interested in buying and satisfy yourself about the gear change. For me, I donít feel the gearchange is any better or worse than any other car Iíve had recently (none have been Hondas) the only issue I have is a tendency to engage 6th when I really want reverse, but I suspect operator error could be a big factor in that.

poul

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2017, 01:55:42 PM »
I just bought a Black MK3 after my old 2012 MK2 broke Down in its CVT box. Must say the new MK3 are so much better then the mk2 driver more smooth and silent and the cvt are better too. So love the new car.

culzean

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2017, 04:34:49 PM »
the only issue I have is a tendency to engage 6th when I really want reverse, but I suspect operator error could be a big factor in that.

Its even worse when you frequently switch between a 6 speed and 5 speed Honda (like I do with Jazz and Civic), because Honda in their wisdom put reverse gear on the 5 speed where 6th gear is on the 6 speed - it means sometimes that you can try to get 6th gear on the 5 speed and you get reverse at 60mph plus.......WTF

Most cars have reverse over the side of gate where first lives, and some kind of double action like lifting a collar or pushing down the lever - much safer,  to be honest I expect better logic from Honda.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 05:28:47 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kenneve

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2017, 05:07:20 PM »
As P J Hall says this thread seems to have merged into a CVT/Man discussion, rather than whether the Mk3 is any good.
I note that most of those who decry the CVT have not actually driven one, so how can they form an honest opinion?

As I said previously, as with any small engine, if you want the power, then you have rev it and whether it's a CVT or Manual is largely immaterial.
 
So back to the original thread, the MK3 is without doubt better in many respects to the Mk2, can't comment about Mk1 as I never had one, The only exception is maybe the Atkinson cycle issue, however one gets used to that quite easily, especially when it saves money at the pumps!

Jocko

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2017, 05:49:49 PM »
The only exception is maybe the Atkinson cycle issue, however one gets used to that quite easily, especially when it saves money at the pumps!
When I drove the Mk 3, Honda loaned me for the day, I wasn't aware of the Atkinson cycle. The engine felt the same as my Mk1, only with more grunt.
At what rpm does the Atkinson cycle change to Otto cycle?

andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2017, 06:17:23 PM »
The only exception is maybe the Atkinson cycle issue, however one gets used to that quite easily, especially when it saves money at the pumps!
When I drove the Mk 3, Honda loaned me for the day, I wasn't aware of the Atkinson cycle. The engine felt the same as my Mk1, only with more grunt.
At what rpm does the Atkinson cycle change to Otto cycle?
It seems to be between 2,000 and 2,500 rpm. I didn't notice it when driving a manual and I think that's because you have a fixed RPM for a given road speed per gear. If you're at all competent with gear selection the engine has no choice other than to switch modes and if you ask for more power the RPM will increase by a known amount. The problem the CVT has is that it has the flexibility to run at a wide range of RPM for any given road wheel speed and can mix and match the RPM to the accelerator input as it sees fit. Unless you tell it you want to get up and go it's sometimes content to just increase the ratio to maintain current RPM but increase road speed. If you're in Atkinson mode that increase will be slooooooow.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:21:21 PM by andruec »

Downsizer

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2017, 06:41:40 PM »
The problem the CVT has is that it has the flexibility to run at a wide range of RPM for any given road wheel speed and can mix and match the RPM to the accelerator input as it sees fit. Unless you tell it you want to get up and go it's sometimes content to just increase the ratio to maintain current RPM but increase road speed. If you're in Atkinson mode that increase will be slooooooow.
A couple of clicks on the left hand paddle is a great option for a sudden surge of power.

Deeps

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2017, 06:57:31 PM »
I can't tell when the Atkinson /Otto switchover takes place on my MT car, I would expect that the engine ECU decides when to switch over depending on demand and load. The VTEC coming in is noticeable at about 3,500 to 4,000 revs but this is also ECU controlled.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 07:00:36 PM by Deeps »

jazzster

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2017, 08:09:59 PM »
I have not driven MK3 but sat in one briefly, Im 6 foot tall and to me there did not seem to be as much room for my knees, the seat seemed to be fully back and steering wheel  fully up and back, it may be just me not trying hard enough, as for CVT very rarely need to make it rev past 4000rpm even uphill, to me its no worse than when you are in a hurry a manual rev high then change gear, just the CVT stays at in higher revs for longer. I have MK2 15 Plate only just got to 11000 miles and seems to be getting a little bit more torque around 2500rpm. If I was a the point of buying another car, I would just try the Mk3 properly to see if I had the seat fully adjusted and like the touch screen etc. I think it looks better than the MK2 (more up to date I guess), but the boot shelf sounds poorly made.
If I was looking at other make I would be struggling to find a smooth gear box like the CVT and the space of the Jazz boot without having a larger car.

Deeps

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2017, 08:57:06 PM »
I am 6' tall with long legs, I find the most comfortable set up to be seat right back, reclined one notch, steering wheel right out, and tilted until the top is visually level with the instrument cowl.

andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2017, 10:23:15 PM »
I am 6' tall with long legs, I find the most comfortable set up to be seat right back, reclined one notch, steering wheel right out, and tilted until the top is visually level with the instrument cowl.
I'm not especially tall (1.8m) and find that my right knee brushes the underside of the steering column when moving from accelerator to brake. I can just about avoid it making contact but it concerns me what might happen in a collision. I can see my knee being forced back and up into the steering column  :o

I think I managed to get myself a bit more clearance under there on the previous models. Oh and I still miss the arm rest a bit.

Deeps

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2017, 10:46:08 PM »
To add to my setup the seat is fully down.

peteo48

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2017, 11:27:03 AM »
I called the dealers (actually they called me and left a message). What I hadn't fully appreciated was that the SE trim has only manual air con. I've had climate control since 2008 so I don't want to downgrade as it were. Annoying, as well, that they have removed the cup holder on the passenger side and one of the glove boxes. The top one on the Mk2 is useful for keeping your water cool when you have the climate control on.

I think I'd need an EX and they are not trying to offload these at present!

One thing I am going to do, at some point, is try out a CVT. I have dissed them based on the noise and clutch slipping sensation I've experienced in an Auris and a Jazz but this was as a passenger. I really need to see for myself.

andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2017, 04:57:45 PM »
One thing I am going to do, at some point, is try out a CVT. I have dissed them based on the noise and clutch slipping sensation I've experienced in an Auris and a Jazz but this was as a passenger. I really need to see for myself.
To be honest I don't think you'll be aware of it unless you're in the habit of flooring the accelerator all the time. For a more sensible driver it doesn't really sound or feel much different to a manual. Personally I quite like the constant cute growl while accelerating. It tells me that the engine is working hard. I find now that being in a conventional car sounds odd with the engine being moved around it's rev range in a desperate attempt to get the power or the efficiency that the driver is looking for.

Horses for courses.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 06:43:24 PM by andruec »

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