Author Topic: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations  (Read 770 times)

csp

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The Intelligent Speed Limiter is very good and I use the system most of the time but it can be caught out, so the driver still needs to remain fully alert when using the limiter.
Sometimes when I drive past the local Esso garage the camera interprits the red lettering on the ESSO sign as a 50mph limit sign then switches the speed limiter and dashboard display from 30mph to 50mph. This seems to be light dependant, there is  a tree near the sign which possibly masks off the ES so the camera probably just sees SO.
Some roundabouts leading to motorway on-slip roads have 40mph limits so when I have turned on to the slip road I have had to cancel the limiter because the car will not accelerate because the camera has not seen a derestriction sign.
Sometimes when I have been driving in a 40mph area or on unrestricted road if there is a badly aligned 30mph sign on a side road the display and limiter has switched over to 30mph.
I am not sure how an autonomous car would handle these situations, although speed limit data may be based on sat/nav information, that would not take into account temporary speed limits.

andruec

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2018, 09:10:34 PM »
When travelling along the east-bound dual-carriageway of the A55 near Halkyn it will register the 40mph limit of the single carriageway road running alongside. I've never felt the need to use the limiter (my right foot will keep me below the speed limit without assistance) but if the limiter actually applies the brakes in such cases that could be dangerous.

However we should not be judging how autonomous vehicles will behave based on how the Jazz does. The Jazz will be using a simple and crude system. An autonomous vehicle will use something completely different. Comparing the two would be like questioning whether a helicopter can fly because your bicycle can't.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 09:13:14 PM by andruec »

peteo48

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 09:14:24 PM »
I have the speed limiter on my car but do not intend to use it unless somebody can tell me how it works in practice. What happens when you reach, and try to exceed, the posted speed?

I must admit, on the MK3, that bit of the controls is a right dogs breakfast. I haven't even worked out how to use the cruise properly and I've had it on my last 5 cars. What in the name of all that is holy are they doing using the same switch for entirely different functions?

Jocko

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 09:25:24 PM »
My Citroen Berlingo van had a manually set system and it was brilliant. If it was set to 40 it wouldn't exceed 40 unless you pushed down hard against the resistance offered by the accelerator. It wouldn't brake for you, it just beeped annoyingly as you slowed down to the speed you set.
The problem with temporary speed limits, at roadworks and the like, is so many don't have signs cancelling the limit. If you are lucky you get an "End" sign. If you're lucky. Also, they don't always cover up all the repeater signs, so a long 40  can have several 50 signs showing, before you get to the "End".

peteo48

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 10:07:46 PM »
Some people obviously like speed limiters. The salesman told me he preferred it to Cruise Control. I've only ever been done for speeding once and that was at 4.30 in the morning so I don't think I need it.

It just mucks up the controls for the cruise. The Mk3's instrumentation is a step back from the clarity of the Mk2 - all the numbers are tiny and difficult to read. You have to press "Main" then toggle between speed limiter and cruise using a button that says "LIM."

Very poor design if you ask me. Should have mentioned it in my thread comparing the Mk2 to the Mk3.

But user friendliness is old hat in all sorts of areas these days.

ColinS

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 10:15:05 PM »
It makes sense to me that the same button is used for all three functions as they can only be used independently of each other.

The controls do the same (or very similar) things in each mode.

The brakes are never applied, only engine braking, when a limit is exceeded.

Pressing the accelerator pedal to the floor will override in any of the modes, as will the cancel button.

I use the intelligent limiter all of the time but it does have the limitations as previously described so I will never totally rely on it (Your Honour).  You are always the driver, this is just an aid.

One annoying feature of the intelligent limiter is that it cancels if you indicate and turn sharply down a side road.

Downsizer

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 10:31:45 PM »
Another aspect that annoys me is that the my car overestimates the real speed by about 7%, so the limiter operates below the real limit.  You can correct this manually, but you have to repeat the correction every time the car sees a new limit sign.  Coupled with the other problems noted above, I have decided not to bother with it.  I've driven for 58 years without penalty (not without breaking the limit!) so I'm prepared to take the risk.

andruec

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 08:52:43 AM »
I must admit, on the MK3, that bit of the controls is a right dogs breakfast. I haven't even worked out how to use the cruise properly and I've had it on my last 5 cars.
I don't agree with that. It seems (apart from one button) to be a simple system. Press the rocker down to activate CC at the current speed or reduce the target speed. Press up to activate CC and restore the previous target speed or increase the target speed. One button to deactivate CC. It's the same as previous versions of the Jazz and seems simpler and easier to use than my Dad's Citroen which is controlled through one of the stalks. The only button that seems pointless is the on/off button. I've never wanted to switch CC off - just deactivating it is enough.

Although on the Mk3 it should be noted that actually switching CC off does cause the time to be displayed in the information screen which might be the only place you can see it if you haven't tapped 'ok' to the infotainment unit warning and have allowed it to go black.
It just mucks up the controls for the cruise.
Eh? You must have had a different Mk2 or be driving a different Mk3 to me. CC operates the same on both models. It's even the same as on the second generation Honda Civic Hybrid.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 08:59:57 AM by andruec »

andruec

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 08:57:28 AM »
Another aspect that annoys me is that the my car overestimates the real speed by about 7%, so the limiter operates below the real limit.  You can correct this manually, but you have to repeat the correction every time the car sees a new limit sign.  Coupled with the other problems noted above, I have decided not to bother with it.  I've driven for 58 years without penalty (not without breaking the limit!) so I'm prepared to take the risk.
All cars over estimate speed. That's by design.

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/how-accurate-is-a-car-speedometer/

"The UK law is based on the EU standard, with some minor changes. A speedo must never show less than the actual speed, and must never show more than 110% of actual speed + 6.25mph. So if your true speed is 40mph, your speedo could legally be reading up to 50.25mph but never less than 40mph. Or to put it another way, if your speedo is reading 50mph, you won’t be doing more than 50mph but it’s possible you might actually only be travelling at 40mph.

To ensure that they comply with the law and make sure that their speedometers are never showing less than true speed under any foreseeable circumstances, car manufacturers will normally deliberately calibrate their speedos to read ‘high’ by a certain amount. As your satnav is not the designated device by which a car’s speed is measured, it does not need to incorporate any fudge factoring."

Skyrider

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 10:29:47 AM »
My car is doing an indicated 65 mph when the satnav shows 70 mph. I don't use the speed limiters but find the cruise control logical and easy to use. Better than a few cars I have owned !
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 10:31:43 AM by Deeps »

csp

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 10:56:42 AM »
On my car Mk3 SE the speed limiter only controls speed using the engine not the brakes, on a down hill section the car will exceed the limiter setting but then sounds the warning buzzer. I have not been able to override the limiter by flooring the throttle. My car was from the furst batch of Mk3 supplied in the UK in September 2015, the software was last updated in Setember 2017.
I do not like using cruise control as I feel I have less contol over the car with CC activated, but I do like the intelligent and manual speed limiter. 
The instructions for the limiter coud be better and the salesman who supplied my car did not seem to know about the intelligent speed limiter.

andruec

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 10:58:09 AM »
The instructions for the limiter coud be better and the salesman who supplied my car did not seem to know about the intelligent speed limiter.
That could be the problem, right there  ;D

Personally I love using the CC on motorways. I just sit in lane one and set the CC to 60 (55 if I come up behind an HGV). I'm rarely in a hurry so am happy to just bimble along and get not far off 70mpg.

I also use it on relatively straight and flat single carriageways that I'm familiar with if the traffic is light.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 11:00:30 AM by andruec »

John Ratsey

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 11:08:38 AM »
I don't use the speed limiter or cruise control but find the display of the most recent speed limit sign to be useful (although it's not infallible) particularly in urban areas which mix 30 mph and 40 mph speed limits. My approach to job-sharing is that I try to control the speed according to the conditions and signage and let the car decide what gear to be in.

peteo48

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 12:10:57 PM »

It just mucks up the controls for the cruise.
Eh? You must have had a different Mk2 or be driving a different Mk3 to me. CC operates the same on both models. It's even the same as on the second generation Honda Civic Hybrid.

It's all about opinions. If I could wave a magic wand I'd have the dashboard from my old Mk 2 transplanted into the Mk3. You must, surely, agree, that the multi information display (or whatever it's called) is a step down from the Mk2 if only because it uses tiny digits.

I think the MK3 dash is rubbish quite frankly but then I think most dashboards on most new cars are nightmarishly complex and distract from concentration. I drove a new Civic last year as a loan car. Horrendous dashboard, confusing, distracting and borderline dangerous.

The fact that the cruise control is on the steering wheel, as in previous models, is good. Toyota have a silly little stalk that sits below the steering wheel and Honda's system is much better. It's a personal thing but as I consider the speed limiter to be of no benefit (I will never use it) it annoys me that it clutters up the cruise control switch.

However if people want speed limiters then I will have to accept it.


andruec

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Re: Intelligent Speed Limiter & Dash Speed Limit Display limitations
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 01:36:51 PM »
It's all about opinions.

Oh aye, perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote. I was only taking issue with the suggestion that the CC buttons were confusing and/or had changed. Those seem unchanged from the Mk2 and I like their simplicity.

The rest of the dash..yeah. I've several times now said that I don't think Honda did a very good job of it. The rev counter and speedometer are fine but a lot of things seem to have been stuck on wherever they could find space. Then there's daft things like the bright green LED on the (I think) traction control button. Thankfully my wheel position means it's mostly hidden but I know some on here find it distracting. And the idle stop button (which I don't use because I do like I/S) is down by the gear lever..presumably because they ran out of space on the dash.

And the whole infotainment idiocy. Poorly thought out UI. A daft warning to dismiss. And if you don't dismiss the warning the entire screen goes black except for the time displayed very dimly in the top right. And if you don't have CC switched off that means you have no visible clock except when the cabin is dark.

And the automatic wipers can no longer be left at one speed and forgotten. Sometimes trigger because condensation has got into the housing (which of course the wipers can do nothing about).

I've posted before that I felt at home in the Mk1 and Mk2 Jazz. I would describe myself as 'A Honda Jazz driver'. With the Mk3 I describe myself as 'Someone who drives a Honda Jazz'. I no longer feel like the car was designed around me. Overall it's a better car - but it lacks the thought and care that seemed to have gone into the previous versions.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 01:39:39 PM by andruec »

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