Author Topic: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?  (Read 1594 times)

peteo48

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Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« on: November 11, 2017, 05:25:59 PM »
Our local Honda dealership has a number of delivery mileage only SE spec Jazz Mk 3s with manual transmissions for 14,000. It's got me tempted I must say. I've seen people having a few niggles with the new Jazz not in terms of reliability but issues around electrics, infotainment etc etc.

I'm interested in anybody who has had a Mk2 and now has a Mk3 and my question is this:

Is it a better car in terms of comfort, economy and performance?

trebor1652

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 06:33:48 PM »
Had a mk1 now got a MK3 ex.
Never liked the mk2'.
Had no real problems with the mk3 after 2 years.
So my choice- mk3.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk


andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 06:49:40 PM »
Overall yes. As long as the Dealer has updated the infotainment software it should be glitch free. The only things that I feel the Mk3 didn't improve on are:

* The boot floor. You can forget the carpeted spare wheel well and handy hatch/cargo net arrangement. What you get with the Mk3 is a some flimsy felt covered hardboard and a chunk of polystyrene filling an un-carpeted wheel well. You can remove the polystyrene but then you have painted metal that needs covering before you put anything in it and anything heavy in the main area will bow the floor.
* The wing mirrors don't rotate far enough. Some people have had luck in forcing them into a lower position but it seemed to require more force than I was willing to risk. As a consequence I can't rotate mine far enough to see the rear wheels and kerb when reversing.
* The auto wipers. The Mk2 seemed better at adapting to changing weather conditions. I found a position I could leave the switch at. With the Mk3 I have to keep adjusting the speed to match changing rain conditions so not as automatic. Also when the car is cold condensation can form in the sensor housing which causes the wipers to wipe until the interior warms up (or you manually turn them off).
* Still doesn't feel as well thought out as the Mk2.
* There's another niggle relating to the engine but I think that only applies if you buy the CVT version.

But for balance here are some improvements:

* Auto main beam - works very well most of the time. I leave it on during my commute and it rarely makes a mistake.
* Climate control - you can now leave the system set to blow air to the screen (partially or fully) and it won't start blowing cold air after an hour.
* Infotainment - with the latest updates it's fault free. The UI is a bit poorly thought out and don't talk to me about Daylight Savings but functionally it's very good.
* Suspension - not as harsh.
* Fuel economy - improved about 5% I'd say.

Don't let the above put you off - it is better than the Mk2 overall and if you have the money then you'll be pleased with the upgrade. It's just that (to me) the Mk2 with CVT was perfect. The Mk3 isn't. The implementation has its flaws and it doesn't seem to have received the same level of thought that went into the Mk2.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 06:58:19 PM by andruec »

VicW

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 07:13:34 PM »
It's just that (to me) the Mk2 with CVT was perfect. The Mk3 isn't. The implementation has its flaws and it doesn't seem to have received the same level of thought that went into the Mk2.

Can you expand on that please?

Vic.

mikebore

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 07:52:14 PM »

It's just that (to me) the Mk2 with CVT was perfect. The Mk3 isn't. The implementation has its flaws and it doesn't seem to have received the same level of thought that went into the Mk2.


IMHO the nub of the issue is that the Mk 3 has a dual cycle Atkinson engine for economy. This means the CVT has a more complicated job to do than the Mk 2. In trying to respond to the driver demands it also has to consider which cycle is in operation and what will happen when when the cycle changes etc. It is another factor.

The net result is occasional slightly less automatic response to the accelerator while it ponders these issues. The power and acceleration are there, but not as readily.

The payback is the better economy of course.

As the previous owner of a Mk2 and Mk1 (still have), the answer to your question is that the Mk3 is definitely a better car than the Mk2. I would particularly mention the steering, which was awful on the Mk1, better on the Mk2 and right on the Mk3. Also rear seat leg room.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 07:53:46 PM by mikebore »

mikebore

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 08:00:35 PM »
* The wing mirrors don't rotate far enough. Some people have had luck in forcing them into a lower position but it seemed to require more force than I was willing to risk. As a consequence I can't rotate mine far enough to see the rear wheels and kerb when reversing.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the travel. I can point them down to see the rear wheels, same as Mk1 and 2. Forcing shouldn't come into it. If your travel is wrong the neutral position in the housing may need adjusting which has been very easy to do on my Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3. Maybe yours is extra stiff, in which case I can understand your comment, so may be get the dealer to look at it?

andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 08:09:43 PM »
It's just that (to me) the Mk2 with CVT was perfect. The Mk3 isn't. The implementation has its flaws and it doesn't seem to have received the same level of thought that went into the Mk2.

Can you expand on that please?

Vic.
Not easily :)

I just always felt at home in the Mk2. Everything it did it did perfectly. Controls were well positioned and things like the boot floor showed an attention to detail and thoughtful design. By contrast the Mk3 feels like a bunch of people got together at the behest of the marketing department, trawled the shelves looking for cute 'toys' then stuck them almost haphazardly around the car.

Now all this is very subjective and I will say that most of the toys are welcome additions (I'm a computer programmer and although 50 still have a little child-like geek in me). It's just that they don't seem well implemented (the infotainment being built on an obsolete version of Android being the worst example).

Now don't get me wrong. I am absolutely not saying that the Mk3 is a bad car. Not even that I regret buying it. It is the best car I've owned to date. However the rough edges mean that (as I've posted before now) whereas with the Mk1 and Mk2 I would say I was a Honda Jazz driver..with the Mk3 I say I'm a driver that currently owns a Honda Jazz.

andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 08:12:52 PM »
* The wing mirrors don't rotate far enough. Some people have had luck in forcing them into a lower position but it seemed to require more force than I was willing to risk. As a consequence I can't rotate mine far enough to see the rear wheels and kerb when reversing.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the travel. I can point them down to see the rear wheels, same as Mk1 and 2. Forcing shouldn't come into it. If your travel is wrong the neutral position in the housing may need adjusting which has been very easy to do on my Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3. Maybe yours is extra stiff, in which case I can understand your comment, so may be get the dealer to look at it?
Yeah I might do that. I've also got to get them to replace the driver side door controls. The intermittent issue with mirrors not unfolding is becoming more common. So much so that I'm not sure I'll make it through to the next service in February (getting to my dealer is a bit of a pain). Worth noting that it's the first Jazz I've owned that has ever developed a fault (and of course my infamous almost-doesn't-start is another one. Pretty poor after only 18 months. I kept the Mk1 and Mk2 for four years each and neither ever developed a fault.

andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 08:19:05 PM »
You know one theory I have is that it's because the Mk3 wasn't built in the UK. I don't know how much control Swindon had over design decisions or component choices I wonder if perhaps the Mk3 is just a bit too foreign whereas the Mk1 and Mk2 were more UK oriented.

Whatever - I don't want to the put the OP off. It's a great car really and worth upgrading to. Where technology is concerned I can be very picky and the infotainment unit in particular - it being a computer - annoys me because it could have been so much better. Otherwise we'll see what happens in 18 months to 24 months time. I'm just no longer feeling that Honda cares.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 08:23:30 PM by andruec »

peteo48

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 09:53:17 PM »
One thing I have noticed - looking through the specs - is that although the Mk3 has a tad more bhp it has less torque than the Mk2.  This worries me slightly - in the Which review somebody described it as like driving with the handbrake on.

Why would you build in less torque? I will have a test drive obviously but is the slight reduction in torque from the Mk2 noticeable in any way?

Jocko

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 10:03:26 PM »
I had a loan of a 67 plate Mk 3 and I thought it a wonderful car. So much more sophisticated then my Mk 1. I have never driven a Mk 2, but I would have a Mk 3 at the drop of a hat.

Downsizer

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 10:13:32 PM »
Our local Honda dealership has a number of delivery mileage only SE spec Jazz Mk 3s with manual transmissions for 14,000.
I'm interested in anybody who has had a Mk2 and now has a Mk3 and my question is this:

Is it a better car in terms of comfort, economy and performance?
Comfort - yes; economy - yes;  performance - pass. I had a manual mk 2 and CVT mk 3, so can't compare.

andruec

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 10:22:39 PM »
One thing I have noticed - looking through the specs - is that although the Mk3 has a tad more bhp it has less torque than the Mk2.  This worries me slightly - in the Which review somebody described it as like driving with the handbrake on.

Why would you build in less torque? I will have a test drive obviously but is the slight reduction in torque from the Mk2 noticeable in any way?
No. The new Jazz has plenty of get up and go. It's obviously not a sports car but it has more than enough umph to keep pace with and even outpace the average driver simply because most drivers don't accelerate very hard. The only issue as alluded to earlier in this thread is that you do have to ensure that the engine is in power mode not economy mode. With a manual gear box that's implicit but the CVT sometimes gets confused and doesn't change down enough to wake the engine up unless you actually trigger a kick down.

Deeps

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 10:47:06 PM »
Agreed, use the revs, get the power. 100bhp is plenty adequate for a supermini.

Deeps

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Re: Honest Answers Required - Is the Mk3 better than the Mk2?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2017, 08:10:44 AM »
I find third and fourth gears the most useful for performance use, overtaking etc. They are both usable from almost walking pace to 80mph. We all potter about but if you want to get a move on and accelerate hard you have to get the engine above 3,000 revs, you will not harm it, it is designed to work at these speeds.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 08:12:31 AM by Deeps »

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