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Messages - andruec

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Are you sure you haven't got blocked ventilation outflow vents? It sounds to be misting as if it could/ would in recirculate mode i.e. there is not a free flow of warm moist air leaving the cabin or even that fresh air is not entering in the first place. Just a thought. It could be a low tech issue like a blocked pollen filter!
I don't think so. It isn't as bad as if it was in recirc mode, this is just a gradual build up. I had it on my Mk2 and my Mk3 and it's often been mentioned here and on the wider web so I'm pretty sure it's just poor ventilation design. As I mentioned earlier the Mk2 had the added 'bonus' that if you left it blowing air at the windscreen after an hour it would switch to blowing out cold air. Hardly what you want in the middle of winter :-/

It's one thing I miss from my old Nissan days. With my three Nissans as long as you had your aircon on you could drive on recirc forever without it misting up, the system was that good. My first Civic was fine but that was the joint effort between Rover and Honda and actually had a centre windscreen vent on the top of the dash. After that all my Hondas have suffered misting to some degree, usually in the rear even though I'm usually the only one in the vehicle. My first Jazz was like that but the last two have been worse.

I find that the heater fan dosen't cut in, until the engine temperature light goes off, thus ensuring that you don't get unwanted cold air blowing in, at the start of your journey.
I never seem to,be troubled by a misted screen, maybe because the car is normally kept in the garage overnight.
I find it tends to build up during a long journey or even a short one if it's cold enough outside. It's something of a known issue - or at least one that a lot of people have complained about over the years.

I like climate control because it's mostly a set and forget thing. Unfortunately since the Mk2 it's not been quite so good. Both Mk2 and Mk3 have a tendency to get steamed up. The climate control is supposed to direct air toward the windscreen automatically but it's not very good at it. Typically it will direct it at the screen for a minute or so from start then never again which is unlikely to be enough in most cases. For both the Mk2 and Mk3 I resorted to setting the output to screen and feet (overriding the climate control for that but leaving it to handle everything else). One improvement with the Mk3 is that you can do that for as long as you want. The Mk2 had an annoying fault that meant after an hour set that way the CC would start pumping out cold air.

Mind you this evening was a bit weird suggesting the Mk3 has other foibles. Leaving the office car park the temp was 11 degrees outside and slightly misty. With the CC set to auto apart from vent set to screen and feet the fan was off. I was beginning to think it was broken and was just about to stop before joining the main road when it suddenly woke up at level 3. Most odd.

I certainly don't accept some people's description of the CVT as being 'loud and whiny'. At high RPM loud and growly is a better description. I tested it tonight driving up a steepish dual carriageway between the M40 and Middleton Cheney. I left the car in 'D' and from 30 up to 80 with my foot to the floor revs are not constant - they rise from 4,000 to the red line. They only become constant when they reach the redline and that ain't no whine - a manual car would sound the same at that point. I think that in 'S' the revs would start at 4,500 so would top out earlier.

And for another point: Coming down that hill in the morning my Jazz will sit at 60mph for the last half mile with no acceleration input. Despite that I pulled away from everyone else leaving the roundabout quite easily and eventually reached 100mph(*) before having to back off as the next roundabout approached. The Jazz might not be a sports car but it's no slouch either.

(*)All purely out of scientific interest you understand ;)

One thing I am going to do, at some point, is try out a CVT. I have dissed them based on the noise and clutch slipping sensation I've experienced in an Auris and a Jazz but this was as a passenger. I really need to see for myself.
To be honest I don't think you'll be aware of it unless you're in the habit of flooring the accelerator all the time. For a more sensible driver it doesn't really sound or feel much different to a manual. Personally I quite like the constant cute growl while accelerating. It tells me that the engine is working hard. I find now that being in a conventional car sounds odd with the engine being moved around it's rev range in a desperate attempt to get the power or the efficiency that the driver is looking for.

Horses for courses.

I am 6' tall with long legs, I find the most comfortable set up to be seat right back, reclined one notch, steering wheel right out, and tilted until the top is visually level with the instrument cowl.
I'm not especially tall (1.8m) and find that my right knee brushes the underside of the steering column when moving from accelerator to brake. I can just about avoid it making contact but it concerns me what might happen in a collision. I can see my knee being forced back and up into the steering column  :o

I think I managed to get myself a bit more clearance under there on the previous models. Oh and I still miss the arm rest a bit.

The only exception is maybe the Atkinson cycle issue, however one gets used to that quite easily, especially when it saves money at the pumps!
When I drove the Mk 3, Honda loaned me for the day, I wasn't aware of the Atkinson cycle. The engine felt the same as my Mk1, only with more grunt.
At what rpm does the Atkinson cycle change to Otto cycle?
It seems to be between 2,000 and 2,500 rpm. I didn't notice it when driving a manual and I think that's because you have a fixed RPM for a given road speed per gear. If you're at all competent with gear selection the engine has no choice other than to switch modes and if you ask for more power the RPM will increase by a known amount. The problem the CVT has is that it has the flexibility to run at a wide range of RPM for any given road wheel speed and can mix and match the RPM to the accelerator input as it sees fit. Unless you tell it you want to get up and go it's sometimes content to just increase the ratio to maintain current RPM but increase road speed. If you're in Atkinson mode that increase will be slooooooow.

All sounds very complicated to me.
Yes, pushing the clutch down before changing gear really challenges my abilities. As an automatic driver for over 25 years I don't know how I ever manage. Worse than doing a quickstep!  ::)
When I take mine to the dealer for work I inevitably end up with a manual courtesy car. I think the gearbox on the Mk3 is fine. I was a bit perturbed when I realised it had six gears though. My clutch skills aren't what they were but nothing that using a few more RPM couldn't fix  ;D

However I now have the opinion of somebody with a mechanical engineering background who has spent a lifetime in the industry. CVTs, he says, are a particularly nasty bit of cost cutting and he hates them with a passion. He prefers more conventional automatics which spare you the slipping clutch sensation.
I feel this opinion is in fact prejudice.  CVT may sound like a slipping clutch, but the cause is very different - cvt is the logical way of running the engine at the optimum speed for the required power output.  I doubt if the cost is very different from other less efficient forms of automatic transmission.

My understanding is that they contain fewer parts and are simpler to manufacture so cost is an issue. That doesn't just come from my own source but a bit of internet research as well.

On the other hand, CVTs do deliver better fuel economy than manuals whereas automatics were traditionally more thirsty. That has to be a strong point in their favour.
Personally I also love the smoothness of a CVT but unfortunately the Mk3's dual mode engine has taken some of that away.


Back to topic, I am very glad I did not buy a Mk 3. Although I have never driven one, (this type of car I own not for drive ability but functionality), I wanted the car with bigger windows and more practical boot space and not excessive leg room in the rear. Nor did I want a car with "driving aids" or a touch screen.

I personally think the two are different cars, different interpretations of the same concept, and thus the preference must purely that of the user.  If they were both concurrent new cars side by side I would chose the Mk 2. That they are consecutive is only a matter of production practicality.

PS I love the CVT. I cannot imagine why anyone would want to "change gears" for a pastime and a CVT knocks 1000 spots off a conventional automatic .

This is what is, slowly but surely, turning me away from the Mk3. I have just noticed that they've removed the passenger's cup holder - my Mrs will go ape!

The CVT thing is interesting. I've been a passenger in 2 cars with CVT boxes - a Mk2 Jazz and, more recently, a Toyota Auris hybrid. The noise from both cars is/was horrendous. It's like driving a car with a badly slipping clutch. The Jazz CVT was woeful on hills - almost scarily so.
What? Its just the sound of an engine running at a constant - and ideal - RPM. It's not noisy. It's the sound of good engineering. The Rise fall of RPM under acceleration that you are so familiar with is the sound of compromise.

You just need to re-educate your hearing. A CVT is not noisy. It's correct.

One thing that is concerning me, having read loads of contributions on Revoo but also on Which, is criticism of the manual gearbox. The one in both the Mk1 and the Mk2 are class leading but I'm hearing reports of notchiness and clunkiness. Many see the Mk3 gearbox as inferior to that on the Mk2.

I couldn't contemplate the CVT - the screaming as you accelerate would drive me mad!
It doesn't scream. If you push it it gives out a cute but willing growl. If you're driving sensibly you can't hear it.

Otherwise known as the rubber band effect. The MT car's 4,5, and sixth gears are overdrive gears (less than 1 to 1 ratio) so third is the most versatile gear for using power. Sorry to hear about your inability to change gear.  :D
and I'm sorry to hear that you have to keep pulling a lever in order to keep the car in approximately the right gear ratio. Mine is almost(*) always in exactly the right ratio ;)

Also last I checked the CVT has a longer top gear. Presumably because any top gear you have is inevitable inadequate at the very end of its range whereas 100% of my box's available ratios are all useful. I assume that's where the better fuel consumption comes from.

(*)Aside from some confusion occasionally caused around the engine mode cross-over.

Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Honda Connect & Smartphone problems
« on: November 12, 2017, 09:37:32 AM »
Yah. One thing you can do is use your phone as an audio source when using it for navigation. If you do that the navigation instructions will also come through the infotainment unit along with whatever else you are listening to.
Although this is annoying if you want to use the phone for navigating whilst (a) listening to the car radio and (b) charging the phone. What happens is that as soon as you plug in the USB cable, the Mirrorlink app in the phone automatically turns Bluetooth on even if you’ve previously turned it off, and then you have to either switch the Connect unit to Bluetooth input which means you lose the radio, or manually switch off Bluetooth so you only get directions from the phone speaker. To avoid this you have to find the hidden Mirrorlink app and disable it so it doesn’t turn Bluetooth on. So, not only does Mirrorlink not work, it actually gets in the way of how I want to use the car. Grrr.
Have you tried it using a power-only USB cable?

I find third and fourth gears the most useful for performance use, overtaking etc. They are both usable from almost walking pace to 80mph. We all potter about but if you want to get a move on and accelerate hard you have to get the engine above 3,000 revs, you will not harm it, it is designed to work at these speeds.
Indeed. I occasionally like to let rip by putting my CVT in 'S' then flooring the accelerator. Revs go straight to 4,500 then a gradual climb up to the red line. No need to pause for gear changes :)

One thing I have noticed - looking through the specs - is that although the Mk3 has a tad more bhp it has less torque than the Mk2.  This worries me slightly - in the Which review somebody described it as like driving with the handbrake on.

Why would you build in less torque? I will have a test drive obviously but is the slight reduction in torque from the Mk2 noticeable in any way?
No. The new Jazz has plenty of get up and go. It's obviously not a sports car but it has more than enough umph to keep pace with and even outpace the average driver simply because most drivers don't accelerate very hard. The only issue as alluded to earlier in this thread is that you do have to ensure that the engine is in power mode not economy mode. With a manual gear box that's implicit but the CVT sometimes gets confused and doesn't change down enough to wake the engine up unless you actually trigger a kick down.

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