Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 771254 times)

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1590 on: November 15, 2020, 03:34:41 PM »
That's true but how do you go about converting iron oxide to iron?

That's for the boffins to work out.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360128518300327

I just thought it was a different angle to the big problem, which is filling the gaps with intermittent generation methods.

JimSh

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1591 on: November 15, 2020, 03:41:48 PM »

That's true but how do you go about converting iron oxide to iron?

That's for the boffins to work out.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360128518300327

I just thought it was a different angle to the big problem, which is filling the gaps with intermittent generation methods.
I assume there must be something in it since they've gone as far as using it on a small industrial scale but I can't see it as sustainable.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 03:45:23 PM by JimSh »

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1592 on: November 15, 2020, 04:48:42 PM »
As for discontinuing petrol and diesel vehicle sales from 2030, I understand that this only is for non-hybrid vehicles. Hybrid vehicles can continue to be sold until 2035. One way or another there will still be ICE vehicles on the road until 2050 so the transition to BEVs isn't quite so hurried as the 2030 headline suggests.

Why do you think Smart Meters are being installed?

It's so when demand exceeds supply ,they can switch consumers off.

(they have admitted it. Sort of)
I've had a smart meter for several years and there's no way it could cut off my electricity as it doesn't include any switching capability. The main advantage of the smart meter is that the consumption is reported in half hour time steps so it's easy to change from a flat rate tariff to one which charges acording to the time of day and hence scarcity / abundance of cheaper power. I use the Octopus Go tariff https://octopus.energy/go/ which costs 5p/kWh between 00.30 and 04.30. It doesn't need a separate meter like the old-fashioned Economy 7 but just uses the smart meter half hourly data. Smart metering and time-of-usage tariffs are one way to spread the peak demand on generation by making it easy and providing incentives to use electricity when it's cheaper.

However, we will also be herded towards electrically-powered heat pumps in order to reduce gas consumption so heating is likely to add to the morning and evening electricity peaks during cold weather. It''s easy to defer the car charging until the middle of the night but coming home from work and sitting in a cold house while waiting for the electricity price to drop won't be popular.
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Kremmen

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1593 on: November 15, 2020, 04:59:09 PM »
With all these cars and heating charging overnight will overnight no longer be 'off peak'
Let's be careful out there !

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1594 on: November 15, 2020, 05:06:30 PM »
I've had a smart meter for several years and there's no way it could cut off my electricity as it doesn't include any switching capability.

A moot point in this context, but smart meters do indeed have the capability to disconnect you by remote, but only for the purposes of cutting you off for unpaid bills, etc.. Once you have one fitted, they no longer need to enter your premises to do that.

They don't however, as some people are led to believe, have any way of knowing what circuits are using what electricity, they just guess from average household usage. Nor can they disconnect individual circuits of course.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1595 on: November 15, 2020, 05:10:35 PM »
With all these cars and heating charging overnight will overnight no longer be 'off peak'

The difference in consumer peak and off-peak costs have been steadily reducing for years. About 20 years ago, off-peak E7 electricity cost less than 20% of the cost of peak electricity, it is now around 50%.

The new off peak will be in summer time afternoons when solar generation is at it's maximum,

guest4871

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1596 on: November 15, 2020, 07:40:37 PM »

Exactly the point.

It's the same reason for converting surplus wind energy to hydrogen, instead of dumping - energy is consumed compressing the gas, but in periods of surplus, you would otherwise be effectively throwing the electricity away. Of course it costs energy to convert the electricity into fuel, but as the grid currently has to pay a penalty to disconnect wind farms from the grid, the electricity is effectively cheaper than free.

The big advantage with such materials is that they are stable for long periods and easily stored or transported.

This is exactly what BP are doing in Germany.

"Oil supermajor BP (BP.) has signed a deal with the Danish power group Ørstead (DEN:ØRSTED) to develop a hydrogen project in Germany. The companies are planning a 50 megawatt facility that would use renewable energy from a wind farm in the North Sea. The hydrogen electrolyser, which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen, is still at the design stage. A final investment decision will come in 2022 and, if positive, operations will kick off in 2024. BP has said that it will grow its current renewable investment from around $500m (£377m) a year to $5bn a year by 2030. "

https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/shares/2020/11/10/bp-announces-hydrogen-deal-after-vaccine-boost/

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1597 on: November 16, 2020, 12:38:31 PM »
This is exactly what BP are doing in Germany.

"Oil supermajor BP (BP.) has signed a deal with the Danish power group Ørstead (DEN:ØRSTED) to develop a hydrogen project in Germany. The companies are planning a 50 megawatt facility that would use renewable energy from a wind farm in the North Sea. The hydrogen electrolyser, which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen, is still at the design stage...

There is already a conversion plant operating up in Orkney, albeit smaller scale, converting surplus energy to hydrogen - which is subsequently mainly used to run school heating and for producing electricity to maintain the inter-island ferry fleet while in dock.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 04:44:53 PM by sparky Paul »

sparky Paul

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madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1599 on: November 16, 2020, 01:23:08 PM »
This is exactly what BP are doing in Germany.

"Oil supermajor BP (BP.) has signed a deal with the Danish power group Ørstead (DEN:ØRSTED) to develop a hydrogen project in Germany. The companies are planning a 50 megawatt facility that would use renewable energy from a wind farm in the North Sea. The hydrogen electrolyser, which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen, is still at the design stage...

There is already a conversion plant operating up in Orkney, albeit smaller scale, converting surplus energy to hydrogen - which is subsequently mainly used to run school heating and for producing electricity to maintain the inter-island ferry fleet while in dock.
[/quote]

The Orkney plant is using a new 1.8MW vanadium # battery to iron out the peaks and troughs in tidal energy production  .

# Produced by Invinity  Energy Systems plc

VicW

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1600 on: November 16, 2020, 02:31:17 PM »
Here we go...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/uk-government-considers-road-pricing-cover-ev-tax-shortfall

https://news.sky.com/story/road-pricing-sunak-eyes-40bn-tax-threat-from-electric-vehicle-drive-12133772

So our Chancellor finally realises the bleeding obvious but suggests setting up a new department to collect said tax which will cost money to run. It hasn't occurred to him to use the existing tax collecting agencies that cover road fund licence, fuel tax and VAT.

Vic.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1601 on: November 16, 2020, 03:04:42 PM »
The Orkney plant is using a new 1.8MW vanadium # battery to iron out the peaks and troughs in tidal energy production  .

# Produced by Invinity  Energy Systems plc

Not yet it isn't, the flow battery is another part of the tidal test rig project which should come on stream next year.

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/tidal-flow-batteries-and-green-hydrogen-combined-in-world-first-1-8m-orkney-project

The hydrolyser has been operating for a few years, producing hydrogen which is transported to the other islands by lorry tanker.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1602 on: November 16, 2020, 04:43:38 PM »
So our Chancellor finally realises the bleeding obvious but suggests setting up a new department to collect said tax which will cost money to run. It hasn't occurred to him to use the existing tax collecting agencies that cover road fund licence, fuel tax and VAT.

Vic.

One thing for certain, with things as they are, it won't be revenue neutral.

I can see these costs being in addition to the existing duties for us poor ICE vehicle drivers.

JimSh

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1603 on: November 16, 2020, 05:02:55 PM »
Firms agree Scotland to England renewable energy 'superhighway'

They've stolen our oil. Now they're going to steal our leccy  :o 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/16/firms-agree-scotland-to-england-renewable-energy-superhighway
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 06:34:44 PM by JimSh »

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #1604 on: November 16, 2020, 06:36:24 PM »
Firms agree Scotland to England renewable energy 'superhighway'

They've stolen our oil. Now they're going to steal our wind and waves.  :o 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/16/firms-agree-scotland-to-england-renewable-energy-superhighway

Don't worry Jim, when independence comes, you'll be able to sell it to us... and add a bit on to make up for the oil.

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