Electric cars

[Jocko]

Almost all BEVs have battery temperature management and can both heat and cool the battery as required. Compared with battery weight the cooling system is minimal. Nissan went the cheap route, though The new 60kWh Leaf has overcome the charging issue though it still does not have a liquid cooled battery yet. I believe the battery type will change sometime soon and the new one will be controlled.
The majority of private BEV owners only ever have to charge their cars at home so range is not an issue, but the range will have to increase dramatically before fleet owners start to change willingly.

[culzean]

Almost all BEVs have battery temperature management and can both heat and cool the battery as required. Compared with battery weight the cooling system is minimal. Nissan went the cheap route, though The new 60kWh Leaf has overcome the charging issue though it still does not have a liquid cooled battery yet. I believe the battery type will change sometime soon and the new one will be controlled.
The majority of private BEV owners only ever have to charge their cars at home so range is not an issue, but the range will have to increase dramatically before fleet owners start to change willingly.

There is no mystery to me why BEV are not taking off - the tech still being developed to an everyday usable state.  Who in their right mind is going to splash out loadsa money on a vehicle only to find in six months it has been superseded by something that is more sorted and in all probability cheaper, while the value of your existing one just dropped like a lead balloon.  Long live the early adopters who are willing to suffer just because they want to be 'first'.

[Jocko]

My next car, when the Jazz goes to scrapyard heaven, will definitely be electric. For my use patterns and electric vehicle ticks all the boxes, and I feel that the technology is far enough advanced for my needs. Second hand prices for a 2011 Leaf start around £6K, not much dearer than a Jazz around that year.
The furthest I have ever driven "down South", in over 50 years driving, is a couple of days stay in York. 230 miles. If I had to do that, or longer, again, I would just hire a wee car for a couple of days.
Mind you, the way I am going my next BEV could be one of these!

[culzean]

I would still like to know how the roadside services like AA, RAC etc. deal with BEV with flat battery.  Do they have to tow it to nearest suitable charge point, hook up a mobile generator ?  With petrol or diesel they can carry jerrycan of fuel and get it going without moving it. Maybe they will invest in battery wagons capable of adding enough charge to get vehicle to a charger, or BEV car drivers will carry a long extension lead and knock on peoples doors asking if they can plug it in.

[Jocko]

Found this from 2014.
https://leasing.com/car-leasing-news/rac-to-charge-to-the-rescue-of-stranded-ev-drivers/

[culzean]

So an ICE powered van, with ICE powered generator ( or was that a 'universal voltage battery / inverter setup) comes to rescue of  stranded BEV,  priceless.

I would expect an electric van to turn up and erect a solar panel or wind turbine or if close to a local stream a water turbine to charge up the battery.  BEV drivers could always carry a can of electrons in the boot, or maybe a spare battery to give them some extra range.  Normally if an ICE car runs out of fuel through a total numpty driving it, the normal remedy is to cadge a lift to a local service station, buy a plastic can and top fuel tank up and drive to local station to fill up properly,  ( unless it is a Diesel, do you still need to get the AA to come and refill the system if you run out of fuel ? )

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/08/electric-cars-wont-get-us-very-far-because-they-cant/
few years old but still relevant.

Truth is that if government took their big chunk of tax off the cost of petrol it would hardly make economic sense to own a BEV, they are normally double the cost to buy of an ICE car, and without subsidy hardly any would have been sold.

The green bit does not even ring true any more,  particularly now we know that wind farms and solar need pretty much 100% backup capacity from other .'non-green'  ( conventional) forms of generation if we are to maintain a reliable electricity supply).

[richardfrost]

Well, if we followed your line of logic and applied it retrospectively, we would still be transporting things and ourselves using the horse and cart,  .

I think in general we need to push ourselves along a little bit with a challenge. You used the Kennedy speech about going to the moon recently to inspire us to face up to the hard challenges.

Getting electric propulsion and storage technology efficient and effective for personal transportation will take a long time and will probably only be solved when other things come into play too, such as improved public transport, a shift in the ownership model and societal changes in travel needs.

[sparky Paul]

Found this from 2014.
https://leasing.com/car-leasing-news/rac-to-charge-to-the-rescue-of-stranded-ev-drivers/

I think that service was soon discontinued.

AutoAid recover you to the nearest suitable charging point, I would think most recovery operators would do the same.

[guest4871]

Well, if we followed your line of logic and applied it retrospectively, we would still be transporting things and ourselves using the horse and cart,  .

There is some case for the horse and cart. Environmentally friendly and about the same speeds as today. Faster sometimes.

Don't be completely taken in by the environmental benefits of EV. The energy (pollution) has to be produced somewhere just not in the cars. EV is a wonderful way for car manufacturers to meet their environmental targets by shifting the problem elsewhere. And don't forget the environmental consequences of batteries.

This all seems to be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I do hope EV does not follow the same route as governments enthusiasm for diesel and the disaster that is and obviously was going to be.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of time for EV but they are not the universal panacea they might be made out to be.

[Jocko]

All else considered, here in the UK it is more environmentally friendly to produce electricity in bulk, transport it over the grid, then charge your EV, compared to running fossil fuel powered vehicles. CO₂ emissions from energy supply has fallen 57% from 1990 to 2017 whereas CO₂ from transport has only fallen 1%.

Seems now that all the motoring organisations just tow/trailer you to the nearest operational charge point.

[sparky Paul]

I'm surprised more effort didn't go into hydrogen fuel cell technology, but I guess the same reluctance to invest in infrastructure exists as it does with EV charging.

It seems sensible to use a fuel source which can be made, in part at least, with excess renewable electricity - as they are doing on a small scale on Eday and Shapinsay up in Orkney.

[culzean]

All else considered, here in the UK it is more environmentally friendly to produce electricity in bulk, transport it over the grid, then charge your EV, compared to running fossil fuel powered vehicles. CO₂ emissions from energy supply has fallen 57% from 1990 to 2017 whereas CO₂ from transport has only fallen 1%.

Seems now that all the motoring organisations just tow/trailer you to the nearest operational charge point.

They are using an awful lot of gas to generate power theses days ( as back-up for unreliable renewables )   seems household gas boilers are not green, but gas used to generate power is fine..

We had a lot of new nuclear power stations in the pipeline that as usual got bogged down in planning or got half built and then problems over money. Chinese economy has tanked so I guess Chinese part of the nuclear power station in Somerset is doomed, and the French are unlikely to carry on single handed.  I really miss the times when we could make our own stuff in the UK, even the new Queensferry bridge was mainly made in China and Spain.

Makes more sense to tow BEV than to invest in specialised van and charging equipment.

[John Ratsey]

There is some case for the horse and cart. Environmentally friendly and about the same speeds as today. Faster sometimes.

I recall reading that the urban streets were filthy when horse-drawn transport was predominant. Horses produce their own form of pollution!

[ColinB]

There is some case for the horse and cart. Environmentally friendly and about the same speeds as today. Faster sometimes.

I recall reading that the urban streets were filthy when horse-drawn transport was predominant. Horses produce their own form of pollution!

Correct, there is nothing environmentally-friendly about large-scale horse-based transport:
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/
Invention of the ICE is generally credited with saving us from that apocalypse!

[Jocko]

When I was a lad we had a horse drawn baker's cart come round. Every time it stopped it would leave a deposit. Our next door neighbour, an avid rose grower, would nip out with a shovel and pail, to collect the manure for his blooms. The reason for the horse drawn cart was the driver had been with the Co-op for about 50 years, couldn't drive, and until he retired (or the horse pegged it) they carried on with the horse drawn deliveries. They then replaced it with an electric mobile shop! As kids we used to hop on the back between stops.

Like this but red.