Author Topic: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)  (Read 9538 times)

guest5876

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Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« on: July 13, 2017, 08:44:01 PM »
I am yet to do this but I will be attempting to adjust the handbrake but I don't think will help the hot brake I get from the rear right hand side of the car.

Will it be a caliper replacement. If so how to I replace it as I can't find any information in how to do a replacement. All I can see is rear disc and pads.

Talking of which is it worth changing the pads?

Many thanks

Ryan

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culzean

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 09:11:11 PM »
If you are going to trouble of messing with brakes probably better to get new pads, bear in mind the rear pistons have to be rotated as you push them back and a special tool is needed.  I use a laser brand 1314, Honda pistons are RH (clockwise) twist to push back.

Most likely to be a pad ears binding, or slide pin binding,  in brakes with pistons only on one side the caliper has to slide on the slide pins to equalise the force on the disc.  Also the pads have to be able to slide freely to take up this equalization and also take up wear in the pads.  A common problem is that the 'ears' at each end of the pad are not free to slide, either due to just being too tight when installed,  or from rust which can bind them in their slots. 

A seized slide pin can be caused by rubber gaiter being either split or not engaged on the spigot at each end properly.

My money would be on tight pad ears,  easy to fix with a file to remove a bit of metal.

Search brakes on this forum,  been covered plenty of times.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:25:27 PM by culzean »
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Jem

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 10:13:38 PM »
My rear left stared to bind. Had new pads and cleaned out the piston etc. Still did it. Ended up having to have a new caliper on that side as it was not working properly. It could be freed up but would start binding almost straight away again.

Jocko

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 07:42:24 AM »
At the price of a part exchange, re-manufactured caliper, I would just go for that for a car the age of ours. Change it and be done with it.

guest5079

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 09:32:33 AM »
Our previous car a Rover based on the Civic was a pig for one rear brake binding.  3 yrs running I cleaned everything including making sure the 'ears' on the pads were not binding. In the end I bought a refurbished caliper and no more trouble. Considering the effort that had been spent previously it was well worth the money. Easy to do as the company sent the correct box and return details.
As to doing the job, well the biggest pain is bleeding the system everything else was quite straightforward. However, when reassembling with new pads  as Culzean states make sure the pads are free to move.  I would also recommend using a propriety brake grease. I used Mintex Cera Tec NOT copper grease. Cost a few quid for a tube that will last a long time.

guest5876

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 03:53:56 PM »
I'm thinking of adjusting the handbrake as its pretty crap anyways and then if that doesn't make a difference then I'll pull the caliper apart. Looking it's only a ten minute job.

Here is the current state of the rear brakes.

You can see the one with less meat on the pads.
How so I lubricate the slide pins. Are they apart of the caliper removal?

Also removing the brake line... will I get much fluid from it. It will get bagged anyways. I want to change the brake fluid as it's looking pretty dark. It may help in the brake feel side of things.

I've seen plenty of used calipers for sale... worth the risk?

Ryan

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Jocko

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 04:16:56 PM »
I've seen plenty of used calipers for sale... worth the risk?

I wouldn't, but there again, I work for a motor factors and I know what a factory recon part costs.

Jocko

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 04:27:22 PM »
When I bought my Jazz, the trader I bought it from had served his time as a Honda mechanic, and worked for the local main dealer for many years. He warned me that the handbrake on the Jazz can be weak and advised me to always firmly apply the footbrake prior to applying the handbrake. I always do that and have never had any problem with it holding. I also ALWAYS leave the car in gear, when I park it.

culzean

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 05:15:27 PM »
How so I lubricate the slide pins. Are they apart of the caliper removal?

Also removing the brake line... will I get much fluid from it. It will get bagged anyways. I want to change the brake fluid as it's looking pretty dark. It may help in the brake feel side of things.

The slide pins live under the rubber concertina gaiter seals - just have to pop off one end of the gaiter from its grooved locator boss, just smear the pin surface,  don't be tempted to put extra grease into the hole where the pin fits as this can get trapped in there (they are blind holes) and stop pins moving properly,  use TRW PFG110 brake grease or ceratec.   On the ears of the pads it should be high temp molybdenum or graphite grease as it is nice and thick and wont get washed away,  they normally supply a sachet of moly grease with good quality or OEM pads.

I did not have to uncouple handbrake cable or brake lines when I did my Jazzes,  but it is a bit tight.  To bleed the brakes i use a MityVac vacuum pump,  but it will draw in air from round the bleed nipple thread when it is slackened off, so either a bit of PTFE tape round the end of thread nearest the hexagon only,  or a fat 'O' ring under the hexagon stops air being sucked in.   With the MityVac I draw as much old fluid out of the reservoir as I can and top it up with fresh before I start bleeding,  that way only fresh fluid is being sucked in.  Never had any luck with the positive pressure bleed systems that run off you spare tyre as they only supply screw threaded cap adaptors and Honda used a quick twist helix cap.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 05:27:22 PM by culzean »
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guest5876

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 08:27:09 PM »
So I've adjusted the cable and the arm now touches the stop which it didn't do. Ita slightly better but I will see how it is when I drive it next.

Can someone tell me if you can undo the stop pins in situ and grease them one by one without taking the caliper off?

Ryan

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culzean

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 08:39:34 PM »
Can someone tell me if you can undo the stop pins in situ and grease them one by one without taking the caliper off?

Do you mean slide pins ??  The only way to access the slide pins is to take caliper apart. 

Before you suspect slide pins check if the pads are evenly worn,  as a binding slide pin normally shows up as uneven wear on pads because caliper struggles to equalise force onto the disc. 

I have had hot brake a couple of times ( after i bought a car but before I replaced pads ) and both times it has been the pad ears binding in their groove - it is important that ears have some room to move,  and every set of pads I have bought (always buy OEM) has needed the ears adjusting with a file (even after carefully cleaning the grooves out of crud and rust).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest5876

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 08:58:12 PM »
Can someone tell me if you can undo the stop pins in situ and grease them one by one without taking the caliper off?

Do you mean slide pins ??  The only way to access the slide pins is to take caliper apart. 

Before you suspect slide pins check if the pads are evenly worn,  as a binding slide pin normally shows up as uneven wear on pads because caliper struggles to equalise force onto the disc. 

I have had hot brake a couple of times ( after i bought a car but before I replaced pads ) and both times it has been the pad ears binding in their groove - it is important that ears have some room to move,  and every set of pads I have bought (always buy OEM) has needed the ears adjusting with a file (even after carefully cleaning the grooves out of crud and rust).
Yeah I did mean the slide pins. I've seen that there are two rubber boots to stop the shite getting in. I've sprayed some lub on the cables to help and as you mentioned uneven pad wear....it looks as if the outer pad has worn more than the inner. I have also noticed that the inner part of the disc looks like it has more wear (less pits and corrosion/shiny) so I'm not entirely sure what that suggests.

Any pictures of the so called "pad ears"?

Ryan

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guest5876

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 09:00:24 PM »
Can someone tell me if you can undo the stop pins in situ and grease them one by one without taking the caliper off?

Do you mean slide pins ??  The only way to access the slide pins is to take caliper apart. 

Before you suspect slide pins check if the pads are evenly worn,  as a binding slide pin normally shows up as uneven wear on pads because caliper struggles to equalise force onto the disc. 

I have had hot brake a couple of times ( after i bought a car but before I replaced pads ) and both times it has been the pad ears binding in their groove - it is important that ears have some room to move,  and every set of pads I have bought (always buy OEM) has needed the ears adjusting with a file (even after carefully cleaning the grooves out of crud and rust).
Yeah I did mean the slide pins. I've seen that there are two rubber boots to stop the shite getting in. I've sprayed some lub on the cables to help and as you mentioned uneven pad wear....it looks as if the outer pad has worn more than the inner. I have also noticed that the inner part of the disc looks like it has more wear (less pits and corrosion/shiny) so I'm not entirely sure what that suggests.

Any pictures of the so called "pad ears"?

Ryan

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You can see in this picture the wear.

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guest5876

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 09:05:04 PM »
When I bought my Jazz, the trader I bought it from had served his time as a Honda mechanic, and worked for the local main dealer for many years. He warned me that the handbrake on the Jazz can be weak and advised me to always firmly apply the footbrake prior to applying the handbrake. I always do that and have never had any problem with it holding. I also ALWAYS leave the car in gear, when I park it.
My car is a cvt. So leaving it in park would be sufficient enough than using the handbrake.. I've adjusted the cable... easy enough. The arm now touches the stop as it should do when brake is released. I also sprayed some dry lub on the return spring.

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culzean

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Re: Hot rear right hand brake (possible binding)
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 08:47:16 AM »
See attached PDF

Ears are the square bits that stick out at each end of the pads,  they slide in grooves on the caliper - the groove is lined with a stainless steel shim material and does not corrode,  but the ears are normal steel and do go rusty which can cause binding,  OEM good quality pads normally contain a sachet of black molybdenum / graphite high temperature thick grease, the grease is mainly for the ears as it is exposed and normal thin grease would get washed out, it is high temperature (as all brake grease should be) to stop it melting and running onto the pad friction material and discs.

Not recommended to use the supplied graphite grease on slide pins,  use ceratec or TRW PFG110 special brake grease.

On the handbrake spring and pivot I use the same spray grease that I use for my motorbike chain,  Wynns chain grease with PTFE,  it goes on thin and thickens up and is very 'clingy',  I also use it on brake pipes and exposed threads under the car to protect them - this grease is also rubber friendly (motorbike chains have 'O' or 'X' rings in the links to keep water and dirt out) so can be sprayed onto pretty much anything under the car,  also bonnet latch mechanism etc..

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 08:52:53 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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