Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Diagnostics, Tuning, Modifications and Maintenance - all Hondas => DIY Guides => Topic started by: guest2958 on December 11, 2011, 02:08:02 PM
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Hi all,
I've owned my 2005 1.4 SE from new and I've beeen doing all the car's servicing myself, since the manufacturer's guarantee expired at 3 years. It's been a great car - totally reliable, just wear and tear items needing replacement.
It's still on it's original clutch at 115,000 miles, so rather than knacker the flywheel completely I thought I'd renew it while it was still behaving properly - you know, sensible preventative maintenance and all that....
It's not a quick job because you have to take out half the front of the car just so you can get the gearbox assembly out to access the clutch (which is why dealers & garages charge so much). Not inherently difficult if you like mucking around with cars, just a bit tedious.
I've done a few clutches in my time but never a Jazz. So here's a question for the more experienced members out there. Referring to the Haynes book of Fairy Tales it says you need to remove the front subframe from the car completely.
Looking at it I reckon just loosening/detaching the minimum and dropping the left/nearside of the subframe an inch or two ought to give sufficient clearance to withdraw the gearbox/driveshaft from the clutch
OR
Leave the subframe in situ and with the engine supported and cables/pipes/exhaust freed off just tilt the engine an inch or two to achieve the same effect.
Anyone out there tried this? Any pearls of wisdom gained from bitter personal experience much appreciated...
Happy motoring, Mark.
PS am I alone in thinking the the engine bay of a Honda Jazz is like 3-D Sudoku?
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The clutch on my previous civic was still going strong at 180K - don't be is such a rush to change it if it ain't broke.
If you have had the car from new and aren't one of the people who will ride the clutch on hills rather than pull the handbrake on then I don't think you need to worry about the clutch.
Normal signs are clutch not disengaging properly and making it hard to get into gear (especially 1st and reverse) and especially when going up a hill in higher gear the revs will rise without speed increasing (you can also try pulling the handbrake on and trying to pull away - you either stall the engine or the clutch will slip).
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Hi culzean - thanks for the post.
You're right - knowing when to dive in is always a dilemma.
Do you go for 'a stitch in time saves nine' (by the time you can detect clutch slip it's too late. You've already damaged the flywheel which will need to be refaced or replaced - not cheap).
Or do you go with 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.'.
Dunno.
It's reassuring to learn about the mileage you got out of the clutch on your Civic, though.
These jobs are always more appealing when postponed to a nice warm weekend in summer ....
Mark
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Is the clutch juddering on take up (especially in reverse)? Is the release bearing whining or rough feel with pedal down? Is there any slip when taking off on hill?
If none of these, then leave well alone.
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Nope - it's still working fine. Maybe a slight tendency to judder but nothing significant, just enough to raise my suspicions that time may not be on my side.
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Referring to the Haynes book of Fairy Tales it says you need to remove the front subframe from the car completely.
I heard a rumour that the same (or similar?) method is required with the Ford Mondeo (at least up to 1996), hence why a lot of these are disappearing from the roads as the cost of replacing a clutch on what is a 15+ year old car is worth it.
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I have changed my gearbox (and did the clutch at the same time) to get the bearings fixed.
The most awkward parts were:
1) Removing the anti roll bar drop links. use plenty of oil and be prepared for the Alen head to round. I had to buy a new Honda item (expensive) next time I would use Ebay)
2) Getting the drive shafts out of the hubs. They were tight and required lots of hammering.
3) Getting the gearbox back onto into the final mated up position. It just didnt seem to want to go the last 20mm, then suddenly slid so easily into place.
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Hi John,
Thanks for the reply. Yep, I'm fully expecting the suspension/drive components to be a bit reluctant to part company. (These are those throw away sentences in the manual where they say something like "remove the nut and detach the track-rod end" as if it's a two minute job. An hour later after wire brushing, WD, clamps, wedges, mole grips and that big hammer you swore you'd never use, it's still firmly attached!)
The bit I'm keen to learn is when you took the gearbox out, how much of the suspension components did you have to remove to get the gearbox out. Did it involve detaching everything and removing the subframe entirely or did you get away with less than that?
Mark
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From my previous experience your first option is correct.
You need a special tool to position "correctly in the center" the new cluth disc.
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From my previous experience your first option is correct.
You need a special tool to position "correctly in the center" the new cluth disc.
Yes but it is easy to improvise with an extension bar (from your socket set) and tape wrapped round to get the correct diameters.
It is also possible to very lightly clamp the clutch plate with the cover approx in the correct position. Then slide on the gearbox and it will align, then carefully pull it out and nip up. However this works best with the engine and box out of the car.
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Hi John,
Thanks for the reply. Yep, I'm fully expecting the suspension/drive components to be a bit reluctant to part company. (These are those throw away sentences in the manual where they say something like "remove the nut and detach the track-rod end" as if it's a two minute job. An hour later after wire brushing, WD, clamps, wedges, mole grips and that big hammer you swore you'd never use, it's still firmly attached!)
The bit I'm keen to learn is when you took the gearbox out, how much of the suspension components did you have to remove to get the gearbox out. Did it involve detaching everything and removing the subframe entirely or did you get away with less than that?
Mark
Sorry I can not remember. I did remove the subframe.
I followed the Honda workshop manual which is online. Sorry it is on my home computer. Will post a link later or search. Following the manual it all came apart OK.
I followed this manual http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual.htm and figured it would be the most effecient way of doing it as it is for Honda mechanics.
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Thanks for all the help & info guys & John's online manual is excellent. Really useful link.
I think I'm going to try my plan B (drop that side of the subframe & see if that will do it). If the worse comes to the worse and the subfame has to be removed completely (pain because that means having to get the wheel alignment checked), then so be it.
In the meantime I've put it all back together & I'll aim for a more convenient time to do it in the New Year. Any further advice appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on.
Mark
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Be prepared to use a nut splitter or hacksaw - and you will probably have to replace most of the nuts and bolts that you remove because they will most likely be rusted up and impossible to remove by unscrewing them. Another alternative is to use a gas torch and plenty of plus-gas or similar - it sometimes works.
It's not easy working on the underside of the car because everything you want to remove or unscrew will be rusted. Your will also have to remove the battery and clutch slave cylinder and maybe drain the engine coolant.
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I had replaced my clutch on my driveway and the engine coolant remained in place all the time.
To get the clutch pressure plate out you`ll need 10mm star socket/spanner.
I have done it myself with no other help so if you`re going to do it alone be prepared, not a 1 day job...
Advise: jack up the car, get the front wheels off, start the engine and get somebody to press the brake and at the same time loose the axle nuts with the right size of socket and a long breaker bar.
I bought a joint splitter too to separate the lower arms from the knuckle (the cheaper one did not work for me): http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_216931_langId_-1_categoryId_255216 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_216931_langId_-1_categoryId_255216). (after pre-tensioning need 1 hit with the hammer and the joint opens with a big bang).
Battery, air filter housing, front bumper, subframe, etc. all needs to come off: http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/01/SAA2E01E34150100000KAAT00.HTML (http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/01/SAA2E01E34150100000KAAT00.HTML).
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I do remember being impressed that there was always just enough room to get the spanner or socket in and get just enough of a turn on all the "awkward" to get at fasteners.
I did not remove the bumper on mine.
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I'd pretty much stripped it down already apart from taking out the drive shafts and removing the subframe. So I've got a pretty good idea now what I need to take off to get at things.
The key bits for me were:
1) loosening the drive shaft nuts in the front hub. Ideally you need the car on the ground with someone's foot hard on the footbrake. A 32mm socket and a *** long bar to loosen them off - both absolutely essential. They're staked locking nuts so you really need to replace them on renewal because you have to chisel a bit of the collar off to release the staking before you can start to unscrew them, and yes they cost £6 each from your local Honda Dealer, (Yes that really is £6, yes, for a nut, yes I know that's ridiculous). You can always swap them over L-R rather than replacing, because the chances are the staking will line up differently on an untouched part of the collar and you'll be able to lock them in place - not recommended, but it will work.
2) Getting the car well jacked up on some decent axle stands so you've got plenty of room to work and can get some decent leverage/welly onto those rusty suspension parts.
I'll do the full job sometime in the New Year. I'll let you know whether dropping the subframe rather than removing it completely, is do-able.
Might not be for a week or two, so don't hold your breath...! Actually, if it's a really good Xmas and the Jazz behaves herself (118K now), and it stays cold and miserable outside, it might not be for a month or two...!
Mark
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hi Mark7b - wondered if you'd tried this in the end? & if so how you got on?
Thanks
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Hi Wispy - sorry for the delay, I'm only an occasional user of this forum (blame the car it's so damn reliable, 160,000 on the clock now and running perfectly...) I did get round to replacing the clutch. I wrote it all up in a later post titled "DIY clutch replacement - sorted"
Mark