Author Topic: Autonomous vehicles.  (Read 7704 times)

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #90 on: June 13, 2018, 06:41:36 AM »
you simply cannot have a system that ignores stationary objects
That's what the driver's there for! Autopilot is only an assistance. Only a moron trusts it with their life (or the lives of others).

culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #91 on: June 13, 2018, 09:27:39 AM »
you simply cannot have a system that ignores stationary objects
That's what the driver's there for! Autopilot is only an assistance. Only a moron trusts it with their life (or the lives of others).

But other autonomous systems have to ignore stationary objects as well,  otherwise they could not operate - but most of them rely on digital 3D mapping to tell the controls system where street furniture is,  but as I posted a while ago only one wrong pixel in the millions (billions) required has to be wrong and the whole plan is up the kyber.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #92 on: June 13, 2018, 09:43:31 AM »
But there are no autonomous systems out there, apart from research vehicles, which all have a driver.

culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #93 on: June 13, 2018, 10:25:54 AM »
But there are no autonomous systems out there, apart from research vehicles, which all have a driver.

And that is likely to be the case for a long, long, long, long............................................ time yet.

https://qz.com/1064004/self-driving-cars-still-cant-mimic-the-most-natural-human-behavior/

They are not called a driver,  they are called a technician or some such obfuscation, keep the hype going at all costs  :-X
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 12:49:20 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Ralph

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #94 on: June 13, 2018, 01:10:55 PM »
Just seen this and thought it might interest apology’s if it’s already been posted

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-44460980/this-car-is-on-autopilot-what-happens-next

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #95 on: June 22, 2018, 04:53:45 PM »
I see that the Uber driver, who killed the pedestrian while in charge of an autonomous test car, was watching TV at the time. They are considering charging her with vehicular manslaughter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44574290

ColinB

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2018, 10:50:34 PM »
I see that the Uber driver, who killed the pedestrian while in charge of an autonomous test car, was watching TV at the time. They are considering charging her with vehicular manslaughter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44574290
I wouldn’t defend someone watching TV whilst at the wheel, but the “spin” in that report looks like a determined effort to shift the blame. Assuming it’s an accurate report, the last two paragraphs claim that the car spotted the poor lady but failed to identify her and did not take any avoiding action. That seems to suggest the software could have done better. But yet the headline, and the majority of the report, emphasises the driver’s behaviour, never mentioning that Uber put her in a position where she was apparently expected to remain 100% vigilant 100% of the time. I wonder how long her shift had been up to that point ? I guess that because she was behind the wheel she was deemed to be responsible and hence the (possible) prosecution, but I hope the fallout from this tragedy exposes the fallacy that a “safety driver” can instantly take over when necessary.

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2018, 06:09:23 AM »
Assuming it’s an accurate report, the last two paragraphs claim that the car spotted the poor lady but failed to identify her and did not take any avoiding action. That seems to suggest the software could have done better.
I agree, but these vehicles are being tested to improve the software, which is the reason there is a "safety driver". There is a difference between a driver who is less than 100% alert and vigilant and one who is watching telly.
Regarding the hours the driver had done, I have no idea what the US legislation allows for these tests, but as a business, I would imaging Uber would push the hours to the limit. But there again, she may just have come on shift.

ColinB

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2018, 08:18:55 AM »
The whole concept of a “safety driver” who is able to step in and save the day when the computer screws up seems dubious to me. Humans are not generally capable of extended periods of concentration before our attention starts to wander (the references suggest around 20 - 30 minutes). So if Uber is expecting it’s “safety drivers” to maintain concentration for longer periods (Ref 2 suggests they do 8 hour shifts) when that is simply not possible for the average human, then the whole testing philosophy is flawed. Glad they’re not doing it on roads near me (yet).

References:
1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_span
2. https://www.wired.com/story/uber-crash-arizona-human-train-self-driving-cars/

This is a different report to the BBC one, albeit with info taken from the same source:
https://bgr.com/2018/06/22/uber-self-driving-car-crash-arizona-hulu-logs/
The final sentence is telling: “But we also shouldn’t let Vasquez [the safety driver] be the scapegoat for an Uber self-driving test that by all accounts was insufficient and unsafe to be testing on public roads, regardless of who was behind the wheel.”

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #99 on: June 26, 2018, 09:07:35 AM »
Uber self-driving test that by all accounts was insufficient and unsafe to be testing on public roads, regardless of who was behind the wheel.”
Exactly. But she didn't help herself by watching TV. At least, if she had fallen asleep, she would have had some sort of excuse.

culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #100 on: June 26, 2018, 09:58:52 AM »
The main reason Uber ( and maybe others) moved their autonomous vehicle testing away from California is that they were required to report every single incident where the 'safety driver' (LOL) had to assume control of the vehicle (which was far too often according to many reports),  in Arizona there is no such requirement - sounds a bit fishy to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/28/uber-arizona-secret-self-driving-program-governor-doug-ducey
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #101 on: June 26, 2018, 10:26:10 AM »
It reads very much as though Uber has/had the governor in their pocket. The same can't be said about members of our administration!  :-X

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2018, 03:14:59 PM »
Baidu, in China, has announced it has started mass production of self driving buses. These buses will be Level 4, which means they will be programmed for particular routes. As the blurb says, "last-mile" drop-offs within enclosed areas, such as airports and tourist sites.
As an ex-bus driver I often felt I was on autopilot, after a 10 hour shift driving the same urban route!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44713298

Jocko

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #103 on: July 12, 2018, 08:56:08 AM »
Daimler, owners of Mercedes Benz, are to launch a small fleet of driverless taxis in California, next year. They have already received permission to test autonomous cars in Germany and China as well as in the US.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44788816

culzean

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Re: Autonomous vehicles.
« Reply #104 on: July 13, 2018, 04:47:26 PM »
https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/the-dream-of-driverless-cars-is-dying/

Thought it had gone a bit quiet on AV, not even any fantasy Hype announcements in the news to keep us amused.....
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 06:32:31 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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