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21
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: WTO rules?
« Last post by sparky Paul on May 24, 2019, 08:00:10 PM »
There is still controversy over whether the stimulus was just catching up with fallout from 2008 crash when a much bigger package was needed or if it was just a gesture by BofE because they thought they should be seen to be doing something.

Of course, confidence in the UK economy and FTSE listed companies was a significant aim of the stimulus package.

With 75% of conservative party membership being pro brexit and pretty much a no deal brexit it is pretty certain next PM will be a brexiteer, not one of the ' born again' brexiteer like Sajid David or Jeremy Hunt but a proper one like Bojo or Dominic Raab.

All the ex-UKIP members in the local associations should ensure that happens, especially given the numbers of long time Conservatives that have ripped up their membership cards.
22
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: WTO rules?
« Last post by zzaj on May 24, 2019, 07:58:40 PM »
I wonder how many people were swayed to vote remain by the wildly pessimistic forecasts of doom and economic armageddon issued by the establishment contained in the government issued /  taxpayer funded pre-referendum leaflet ? Those have turned out to be a lot less truthful than the 350billion a week saving yet no-one is calling out the mendacious establishment for their deliberately massaged figures.  You know what they say about computer data,  GIGO ( garbage in - garbage out ) you know what they say about the pre-brexit computer forecasts modeled by the establishment, LILO ( lies in - lies out ).   Maybe those 'experts' care to explain in court what they did and why, and explain why the UK has lowest unemployment in Europe except Germany and higher growth ( by IMF figures and forecasts ) than anyone in the Eurozone,  that would be of more interest to me in court, why highly paid civil servants would intentionally deceive the UK population.

There is a difference between a forecast and a lie.

It is a very interesting view that you don't consider deliberately skewing forecasts by putting in known biased data into a computer model as telling a lie.  I suppose you are under the assumption that computers don't lie - but their human programmers can use the model to churn out exactly what they want to see.

What evidence have you that known biased information was programmed into the computers?

Lots of what the papers claimed was Project Fear has become Project Reality.
Value of the pound.
Airbus
Japanese cars
Banking and insurance jobs
British Steel
etc.
and we haven't left yet

Value of the pound = Has been drifting down steady since July 2014 (Strong US$).
Airbus = Policital. (Germany/ France).
Japanese cars = Model runs and changing world demand.
Banking and insurance jobs = Some smallish changes now but offset by more open market later.
British Steel = Market dynamics (China over production).

23
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: WTO rules?
« Last post by zzaj on May 24, 2019, 07:50:54 PM »
If it was clear to the leavers on here that the message was just saying 'this money will be freed up when we leave the EU' what makes you think it affected a significant number of the leave voters,  IMHO most people saw it as a bit of a stunt to draw peoples attention to what we were paying into EU - no more than that.
Finally, if you think it was a bit of a stunt to draw attention to what we are paying into the EU, the figure was a lie anyway. We have never sent the EU 350 milllion a week, gross or otherwise. The rebate still sees to that - that sum of money never goes to the EU.

I'll ignore the selective emboldening (again).

The figure is not a lie (which may have been intended as hyperbole).

We are obligated to pay the amount to the EU. For that we get a rebate which can be cancelled by EU. We get an amount which EU unilaterally decides to spend in UK. Our obligation does not change.

It is an obligation unless all obligations are lies.

PS The lie is the intended hyperbole.


If I wanted to misquote, or quote you out of context, I would think cropping your reply would be far more effective. I use bold to identify the bit I'm addressing in the answer, not to emphasise anything. I thought it would lessen any chance of confusion, but I will refrain from doing it again if it bothers you.

I understand our obligations to the EU and the way the rebate works, which can only be changed by treaty. This is not about the technical details of who is obliged to pay what, all I want to know is whether you think what was said was true or not.

Remain voters are regularly accused of being mistaken, or of suffering some sort of amnesia when it comes to what was said. When leave voters are confronted with the campaign material and the exact wording that was used, they quickly change their position, saying that it was never meant to be taken seriously or literally.

I know leave voters who are now unhappy with the about-face on the extra NHS funding, and nobody likes to admit they were duped.

I think that calling a statement like "the 350 million EU takes every week" hyperbole is really stretching the definition. Why not 500 million? billions a week? The 350 million was a very exact figure chosen as having enough relevance to be credible, but unfortunately not the correct answer for the statement being made. That is certainly not hyperbole.

For me, it boils down to whether you agree that "the EU takes 350 million per week", as the campaign material clearly declared, or not. I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.


No "promises" could be made. No "promises" could be "delivered".


If that's the case, what's the point of any manifesto?

Respecting your point of view, I was referring to the referendum. ("No "promises" could be made. No "promises" could be "delivered"."). In the referendum debate there were no manifestos per se.

I have always felt the careless use of the word promise applied to a manifesto is wrong.

To me, a manifesto should be treated as a guide to the direction of travel and not to be interpreted as a 100% binding commitment which in reality is probably an impossibility.

24
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: WTO rules?
« Last post by culzean on May 24, 2019, 07:39:36 PM »
With 75% of conservative party membership being pro brexit and pretty much a no deal brexit it is pretty certain next PM will be a brexiteer, not one of the ' born again' brexiteer like Sajid David or Jeremy Hunt but a proper one like Bojo or Dominic Raab. No good joining Tory party to try to affect the result as you have to be a member for 3 months before getting voting rights.  The party members get to make the decision between the last two candidates after the rest have been discarded by conservative MPs.
25
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: WTO rules?
« Last post by culzean on May 24, 2019, 07:32:08 PM »
There is still controversy over whether the stimulus was just catching up with fallout from 2008 crash when a much bigger package was needed or if it was just a gesture by BofE because they thought they should be seen to be doing something.

A lot of experts believe a loosening of economy and cut in tax etc could have achieved same or better results instead of just throwing taxpayers money at it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/07/bank-of-englands-stimulus-package-has-bought-the-chancellor-some-time
26
Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 / Re: Decent price insurance
« Last post by Denis on May 24, 2019, 07:21:40 PM »
 Blimey! some of these quotes!!!, I'm with the Halifax insurance, my 55 plate Jazz came in 146 Full comp, and the wifes 61 plate Jazz was 212 full comp.
27
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: WTO rules?
« Last post by JimSh on May 24, 2019, 07:01:49 PM »
I wonder how many people were swayed to vote remain by the wildly pessimistic forecasts of doom and economic armageddon issued by the establishment contained in the government issued /  taxpayer funded pre-referendum leaflet ? Those have turned out to be a lot less truthful than the 350billion a week saving yet no-one is calling out the mendacious establishment for their deliberately massaged figures.  You know what they say about computer data,  GIGO ( garbage in - garbage out ) you know what they say about the pre-brexit computer forecasts modeled by the establishment, LILO ( lies in - lies out ).   Maybe those 'experts' care to explain in court what they did and why, and explain why the UK has lowest unemployment in Europe except Germany and higher growth ( by IMF figures and forecasts ) than anyone in the Eurozone,  that would be of more interest to me in court, why highly paid civil servants would intentionally deceive the UK population.

There is a difference between a forecast and a lie.

It is a very interesting view that you don't consider deliberately skewing forecasts by putting in known biased data into a computer model as telling a lie.  I suppose you are under the assumption that computers don't lie - but their human programmers can use the model to churn out exactly what they want to see.

What evidence have you that known biased information was programmed into the computers?

Lots of what the papers claimed was Project Fear has become Project Reality.
Value of the pound.
Airbus
Japanese cars
Banking and insurance jobs
British Steel
etc.
and we haven't left yet
28
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: Always be ready for anything.
« Last post by sparky Paul on May 24, 2019, 06:51:40 PM »
If you had been the bulker lorry that ran me off the road yesterday, he would have been squashed flat.
29
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: Always be ready for anything.
« Last post by Jocko on May 24, 2019, 06:44:29 PM »
I was expecting the crossing light to change, so I was ready for it. I was not ready for the numpty striding out, especially as he had his back to the traffic. I hope his parents see the video on YouTube. That's the reason I posted it.
30
Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: Always be ready for anything.
« Last post by sparky Paul on May 24, 2019, 06:35:30 PM »
It's a good job you were going at a very sensible speed Jocko.
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