Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: edam on August 29, 2015, 07:35:34 PM
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I'm thinking about getting the new Jazz .
I own a late 2011 ES CVT and have checked with 2 Honda dealers to see how much I would get in P/EX
One offered only £4800 whilst the second offered £6500 plus other perks.
That's £1700 difference!!!
I don't understand
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What mileage do you have on your car?
I am popping into a dealer to have a look at the new Jazz soon, I will ask them to give me a trade-in value . . . . just for a laugh ;D
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Just 17000 .
£4800 is a insult
My Jazz is not happy it feels very undervalued
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£4,800 is a very low bid. The £6,500 is probably realistic and consistent with the £7,500 agreed for my 11 reg hybrid HS with similar mileage to yours but it took a bit of haggling. My starting place was the £9,500+ being asked by dealers for something similar (but, as my salesman pointed out, what is asked and what it is actually sold for can be different.
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This is the second time this has happened.
When I bought my present car the first dealer gave me a crap p/ex but the second dealer gave such a better deal that I could not turn it down.
I managed to turn down the better deal this time , it was hard to do, but I think I need to really decide what I want.
I would like to see if the S does not have the gizmo by the mirror and also would like to see the colour on a car
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Just 17000 .
£4800 is a insult
My Jazz is not happy it feels very undervalued
that is bad god knows what i would get for mine, good job i am keeping it a long time
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What is it on WeBuyAnyCar - I looked at our 2009 EX the other day and it was £5K.
You've got to look at the "cost to change" figure.
Changed daughter's car last year (from Colt to Jazz). Got a reasonably good deal on the price Jazz and the dealer used WBAC to value the Colt and offered us £50 more (£1100).
I felt insulted, but, realistically, you can't have it both ways - if they'd sold the new Jazz at list price then that would have made the Colt's value around £3500.
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Sadly I had to leave Honda in April after 6 x Jazz's, couldn't wait (and wait) for the new model :(. Nissan Dealer agreed £6,700 for a 62 reg EX with extras pack and 50K miles. That was £400 better than any Honda dealer offered to change for another GE Jazz equivalent model.
At the end of the day I'm in full agreement its all about the 'cost to change'...how much money do I have to part with! :o
(I notice its still listed on their website...I changed April)
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Swopping cars too often is a sure way to waste money, and depreciation is not linear, cars depreciate most in first couple of years (you lose 20% of purchase price you just paid in VAT straight away when car leaves the showroom).
I am glad some people do splash out on new cars though, I am one of the beneficiaries as I usually get one 12 to 18 months old at a good price.
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I saw a report in Switzerland last week where they took a VW touran to about 10 garages to see what price they would get for it without px. The correct value was 15000sfr. Only one garage offered this amount, the worst was 9500sfr by an official VW dealer! When they confronted the dealers it was the usual rubbish about scratches, interior wear etc. But the main advice was get as many offers as you can.
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Swopping cars too often is a sure way to waste money, and depreciation is not linear, cars depreciate most in first couple of years (you lose 20% of purchase price you just paid in VAT straight away when car leaves the showroom).
I am glad some people do splash out on new cars though, I am one of the beneficiaries as I usually get one 12 to 18 months old at a good price.
Yes - I rely on people taking the first big hit of depreciation as well. I guess, however, it is important to some people to have that brand new feel even if it difficult to justify on economics.
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Sadly I had to leave Honda in April after 6 x Jazz's, couldn't wait (and wait) for the new model :(. Nissan Dealer agreed £6,700 for a 62 reg EX with extras pack and 50K miles. That was £400 better than any Honda dealer offered to change for another GE Jazz equivalent model.
Blimey - that makes the £5K WBAC offered for our 2009 / 59 plate EX look remarkably high.
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you lose 20% of purchase price you just paid in VAT straight away when car leaves the showroom.
No you don't - the price to retail customers is VAT inclusive and the VAT element depreciates over the life of the car in the same way as the car's ex-VAT value.
Hence when used are sold by dealers they have to pay VAT on the profit they make (VAT margin scheme).
Now, of course it could be that a nearly-new car will be 20% cheaper than a new one, but that's just market forces. If the car was in demand then it could even be dearer than new.
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I buy 3-12 month used cars at huge discounts - my Jazz was 6 months old, had a 5 year service plan and was £3 less than list - with 300 miles on the clock.
Buying new cars is for others.. We keep our cars for a decade or longer. Our Peugeot 106- 17 years , our Yaris 10years and counting... Depreciation ? Very low. Running costs? Very low.
I was not educated in Aberdeen for nothing - Yorkshire people are spendthrifts:-)
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you lose 20% of purchase price you just paid in VAT straight away when car leaves the showroom.
No you don't - the price to retail customers is VAT inclusive and the VAT element depreciates over the life of the car in the same way as the car's ex-VAT value.
Hence when used are sold by dealers they have to pay VAT on the profit they make (VAT margin scheme).
Now, of course it could be that a nearly-new car will be 20% cheaper than a new one, but that's just market forces. If the car was in demand then it could even be dearer than new.
http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/depreciation/ (http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/depreciation/)
http://conversation.which.co.uk/transport-travel/buy-new-used-car/ (http://conversation.which.co.uk/transport-travel/buy-new-used-car/)
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-1630721/Do-I-have-to-pay-VAT-on-a-second-hand-car.html (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-1630721/Do-I-have-to-pay-VAT-on-a-second-hand-car.html)
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Dealers often use WBAC to value trade-ins. WBAC is owned by British Car Auctions so it could be fairly accurate valuation of what the car will fetch at auction.
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you lose 20% of purchase price you just paid in VAT straight away when car leaves the showroom.
No you don't - the price to retail customers is VAT inclusive and the VAT element depreciates over the life of the car in the same way as the car's ex-VAT value.
Hence when used are sold by dealers they have to pay VAT on the profit they make (VAT margin scheme).
Now, of course it could be that a nearly-new car will be 20% cheaper than a new one, but that's just market forces. If the car was in demand then it could even be dearer than new.
http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/depreciation/ (http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/depreciation/)
http://conversation.which.co.uk/transport-travel/buy-new-used-car/ (http://conversation.which.co.uk/transport-travel/buy-new-used-car/)
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-1630721/Do-I-have-to-pay-VAT-on-a-second-hand-car.html (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-1630721/Do-I-have-to-pay-VAT-on-a-second-hand-car.html)
I'm confused by your links - they confirm that used cars do include an element of VAT. Except for the second link, whch doesn't mention VAT at all - except for the reply to the first comment which says "Don’t be silly. Of course you pay the vat, or at least a proportion of it. If you buy a used car for half its new price, you’re paying half the vat!"
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As previously mentioned its the cost to change the car thats important, not necessarily the trade-in value.
I used to buy a new Vauxhall every 2 years, as Vauxhall used to offer heavy discounts of around 20% to driving schools. So as an example, a £12,000 Corsa would be discounted to £9500, then by using Vauxhalls approved GM Credit card it was easy to have £1000 of reward points, and a £750 loyalty discount (previously owned a Vauxhall), and a further £750 dealer discount so that £12,000 Corsa is now £7000. I would then get £4500 trade-in for my two-year old 80,000 Corsa, so the cost to change is now £2500.
Hence why many driving schools used Corsas.
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Swopping cars too often is a sure way to waste money, and depreciation is not linear, cars depreciate most in first couple of years (you lose 20% of purchase price you just paid in VAT straight away when car leaves the showroom).
That's why the last couple of Jazz's...and the Nissan have been 'pre-registered' cars. In 2 years when I change again be considering pre-reg New Jazz.
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I buy 3-12 month used cars at huge discounts - my Jazz was 6 months old, had a 5 year service plan and was £3 less than list - with 300 miles on the clock.
Buying new cars is for others.. We keep our cars for a decade or longer. Our Peugeot 106- 17 years , our Yaris 10years and counting... Depreciation ? Very low. Running costs? Very low.
I was not educated in Aberdeen for nothing - Yorkshire people are spendthrifts:-)
I presume you mean £3K for the Jazz - not bad, although the mileage is oddly low. My Merc was 5mths old with 6K miles and listed at £36K - I paid £23.5K.
On the other hand, just bought a new VW Tiguan - got £5K off but that brings it down to the same price as 6-12mth old cars on dealer forecourts. And it's not like the used ones are priced high but can be discounted - I tried and discounts offered were negligible.
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Dealers often use WBAC to value trade-ins. WBAC is owned by British Car Auctions so it could be fairly accurate valuation of what the car will fetch at auction.
Your point is true to a degree.
However, the valuation from WBAC needs to be lower than the auction price. They have costs in their operation even if they are just aggregating volume for BCA without profit. If WBAC are covering their costs/ making a profit, a dealer valuing at the WBAC price will also make WBAC costs/ profit on the auction sale of the part exchange as well as the sale of the new car. The dealers marginal costs will be much less than WBAC full costs so it is very attractive to the dealer to quote a WBAC valuation. (That's why they are called dealers!)
So as a rule of thumb, a WBAC valuation is likely to be lower than the market rate. How much lower I don't know, but I suspect a fair amount?
Like all things it is best to do your research and get at least three quotes each for buying the car and selling the car. The least "cost of change" option will likely be a private sale and purchase through a car broker. Some don't like selling privately (me too!), some don't like buying though a broker - so you pays your money and takes your choice. I found when I was in the market for my Jazz, I had some very, very, silly (naïve) "cost of change offers" from Honda dealers.
It is interesting to take the car to a local car dealer who buys cars for cash to see what they offer.
That's what I did - and used a broker, who found a Honda dealer quoting about £3,500 off an unregistered brand new Jazz EX CVT with all the normal Honda benefits included just as a normal customer. (I bought the car directly from the dealer and paid the dealer in exactly the normal way except the price and with no haggling).
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I'm confused by your links - they confirm that used cars do include an element of VAT. Except for the second link, whch doesn't mention VAT at all - except for the reply to the first comment which says "Don’t be silly. Of course you pay the vat, or at least a proportion of it. If you buy a used car for half its new price, you’re paying half the vat!"
I'm not disagreeing with you about an element of VAT being factored into used car prices, after all if the dealer has to pay VAT he is going to pass it on to customer. There are two schemes, one where the dealer pays VAT only on his profit on the used car and one where VAT is payable on the whole cost of used car (I guess HMRC love the second one, although it seems to me to be double-dipping and they are getting more VAT than they should, but dealer paperwork is probably easier), the second one is going to cost the customer more. Sometimes pre-registered cars can be a bargain (dealers register them to push up their 'new car' sales for that month), but because these cannot be classed as new cars they are sometimes not eligible for finance and dealers are forced to sell a 'new' car at a discount.
I hope the links give a mixed view of used car transactions - which is exactly the way it is in the real world - let the buyer beware but also know that in the oversupplied and competitive UK market there is always room to haggle, and never appear to the salesman that you have fallen in love with the car and will buy it whatever, they can spot this a mile away and will not budge on price, always make sure they know you are looking at other dealers.
There seems to be a developing trend for younger people to lease cars nowadays, which is fine if you want a new car regularly and don't cover many miles ( the smaller the agreed annual mileage the cheaper the lease payment but you will get charged per extra mile if you go over the agreed lease mileage) - and you will never own the car - and if you want to buy out the lease at the end you will be up for a hefty sum of money. Where the lease scheme is run by a car maker they obviously want to trap people financially into rolling the lease over into another of their products - which is good business for them.