Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 15945 times)

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #615 on: December 06, 2017, 03:28:02 PM »
On providing the power needed for a huge fleet of EVs - well yes, it is certainly an issue. A couple of things spring to mind.

1) I think I'm right in thinking that one of the issues of the current grid is the peaks and troughs of demand. Add in renewables and you get peaks and troughs of at least some of the supply. EVs charging at night, as they mostly would, might flatten out that particular trough.

2) Related to the first, our grid is pretty inflexible - there is talk of a smart grid.

3) There is also some work being done on using EVs as a sort of back up system with them donating power to the grid at times and drawing it from the grid at others. A back of an envelope idea I heard was this - EV comes home late afternoon early evening - it's still got some charge - that goes into the grid and, at night, when people are in bed, it takes power back.

4) Tesla power walls and similar technologies might mean greater ability to store renewable energy.

All very complex - the road to complete EVdom is not exactly straightforward which is why the change will be evolutionary.

One thing that would be a complete disaster would be for the Chinese to build more coal power stations to power their fleet of EVs. If that happens we are absolutely no better off.

zzaj

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #616 on: December 06, 2017, 03:45:17 PM »
One thing that would be a complete disaster would be for the Chinese to build more coal power stations to power their fleet of EVs. If that happens we are absolutely no better off.

I am not too sure about nuclear either.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #617 on: December 06, 2017, 03:50:49 PM »
There is no doubt about it, charging infrastructure is the biggest hurdle EVs face. If all cars were suddenly replaced with EVs, the supply of electricity would be an issue, but I feel that that won't happen as uptake will be slow and there will be legislation to prevent charging at times of peak usage. Even without legislation, current charger systems use off peak by default. Perhaps, in a time to come, there will be a much bigger difference between prices for peak and off peak electricity. This could reduce unnecessary waste of electricity at peak times (lights that are not required in daytime etc). Also, as low energy lighting and equipment becomes more common place, demand from these quarters won't be so high.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #618 on: December 06, 2017, 03:55:04 PM »
I am not too sure about nuclear either.
The more I read about nuclear power the more it worries me. Not just the risk of a nuclear accident but decommissioning costs, always picked up by the tax payer, will bankrupt countries (if they are not already so far in hock as it is).

TG

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #619 on: December 06, 2017, 04:09:12 PM »
I am not too sure about nuclear either.
The more I read about nuclear power the more it worries me. Not just the risk of a nuclear accident but decommissioning costs, always picked up by the tax payer, will bankrupt countries (if they are not already so far in hock as it is).
It won't only be Hinckley, but Bradwell-B looks like a nailed on certainty by the same French / Chinese group.
--
TG

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #620 on: December 06, 2017, 04:54:27 PM »
Forgive me if I'm repeating myself here but, in the excitement about EVs, the role of hybrids has taken a bit of a back seat. I was looking at the Yaris Hybrid. It seems to be the ideal town car. Which reckoned that they even beat the official figures in the urban test getting over 100 mpg. They run for short bursts on electric only power, especially on moving off so make a major contribution to reducing pollution at pavement level.

On the motorway - not so good - you are carrying around a battery and an electric motor and Which only squeezed 45 mpg at motorway speeds.

But for me, mostly town with occasional longer trips, ideal.

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #621 on: December 07, 2017, 09:04:57 AM »
Unfortunately world politics run our lives. We as the man in the street have no control over our destiny other than, in Britain's case change or keep the government of the day at an election. China has such a grip over the rest of the world in trade. EV's will need electricity and Britain has entered into an agreement with China and France to build a nuclear power station with another probable. So to power an EV politics has come into the equation, whether we like it or not.
It is also almost impossible to ascertain what country producte sold under old and well trusted brand names are made in, almost certainly China. My Brother sends me info from Canada, latest one is about Triumph motorcycles. The production of which is shared between Thailand and Britain. So by buying a Triumph motorcycles we would be involved in some form of political issue.

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #622 on: December 07, 2017, 09:12:43 AM »
Just opened an Email re two gentlemen removing a newish car from outside the owners home. No key needed nor did they need to be anywhere near the owners key.
West Midlands police have recommended the use of a Thatcham type approved anti theft device such as a steering lock. Remember the 70's? I parked my police Metro in a public car park. When I came back went to a white Metro not paying attention and unlocked it. NOT my metro. Oh dear embarrassment. Locked it and tried not to look too obvious. Is this what is going to happen with these latest ideas of key less entry.
Not sure if this is an EV/Autonomous vehicle question or just a general one affecting MK3 models and others with key less entry

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #623 on: December 07, 2017, 09:47:50 AM »
Just opened an Email re two gentlemen removing a newish car from outside the owners home. No key needed nor did they need to be anywhere near the owners key.
West Midlands police have recommended the use of a Thatcham type approved anti theft device such as a steering lock. Remember the 70's? I parked my police Metro in a public car park. When I came back went to a white Metro not paying attention and unlocked it. NOT my metro. Oh dear embarrassment. Locked it and tried not to look too obvious. Is this what is going to happen with these latest ideas of key less entry.
Not sure if this is an EV/Autonomous vehicle question or just a general one affecting MK3 models and others with key less entry

Modern cars can either be started and stolen with a key and chip (probably the most secure) via OBD port or if keyless remotely via a couple of electronic boxes.  This I am afraid is the future of vehicles whether ICE, EV or Autonomous.  We have been lured by 'convenience' by all sorts of slick adverts, 'control your home from your phone',  'summon your car via a phone app', - but anything that works on wireless, is connected to phone network or internet is never going to be secure - my first Honda had an infrared remote, much more secure than a wireless one (which can be intercepted and cloned), but not as 'convenient' because you had to point it a area above interior rear view mirror, not convenient enough for many people,  but pretty secure.

Autonomous cars will become magnets for Hackers, as peteo48 rightly says.  I can imagine the car stopping suddenly and the large info screen in the vehicle flashing up a message 'your operating system has been encrypted, to continue your journey you can pay via your debit or credit card the sum of 5,000 via your phone'.

What is convenient for the lawful owner normally turns out to be convenient for people who would also like to posses or make money from the vehicle as well.  The law of unintended consequences strikes again.... (normally a case of designers not thinking things through).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:44:24 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #624 on: December 10, 2017, 05:46:51 PM »
So, today , when it's cold and power demand is rising, renewable energy contributes a stonking 13% of total demand...

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #625 on: December 10, 2017, 06:50:33 PM »
So, today , when it's cold and power demand is rising, renewable energy contributes a stonking 13% of total demand...
That's not a bad total considering the conditions. A bit of snow on my solar panels meant they produced precisely zero watt-hours today. The snow slid off the top part of the panels but then piled up on the roof which isn't so slippery so the bottom part of the panels remained covered. However, commercial solar farms shouldn't suffer the same problem if the snow can slide onto the ground below.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #626 on: December 10, 2017, 07:17:49 PM »
So, today , when it's cold and power demand is rising, renewable energy contributes a stonking 13% of total demand...
That's not a bad total considering the conditions. A bit of snow on my solar panels meant they produced precisely zero watt-hours today. The snow slid off the top part of the panels but then piled up on the roof which isn't so slippery so the bottom part of the panels remained covered. However, commercial solar farms shouldn't suffer the same problem if the snow can slide onto the ground below.

Miniscule amount of solar today,  it only has to be cloudy let alone snow on panels to severely reduce output.   Icing on wind turbine blades can also be a problem. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #627 on: December 11, 2017, 09:29:15 AM »
So, today , when it's cold and power demand is rising, renewable energy contributes a stonking 13% of total demand...

I am very impressed today, wind just over 8% and solar not even got out of bed yet,  still snoozing while nation energy demand nudges into orange section.  Come on boys,  you need to pull your weight,  Gas, coal and nuclear running flat out and importing electricity from pretty much every neighbouring country...........  my meter will be happy it doesn't have to sort out green electrons from the dirty ones today.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #628 on: December 11, 2017, 02:24:39 PM »
Invest in Green Energy - and double up by investing in non Green energy to cater for the 50% of the time Green does not work

Policy of muppets.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #629 on: December 11, 2017, 04:13:37 PM »
What would you say to a 2, 4 or 5 seater EV, up to 300 km range (22kWh battery), from 14,900? And Swedish to boot. Due on the shelves next year.

https://www.uniti.earth/order/

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