Author Topic: LED headlights.  (Read 14226 times)

ColinB

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 01:57:17 PM »
At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?

I anticipate someone will say “They’re brighter, therefore better”. Personally I disagree with the “arms race” that is putting more and brighter lights on the front of every new model. The standard lights on my Jazz are perfectly adequate - passengers have commented on how effective they are - without needing to be enhanced further. Having unnecessarily bright lights simply annoys or blinds other drivers, especially those SUV/crossover marques with high-mounted lights whose drivers don’t understand the concept of maintaining a safe following distance.

The preceding discussion suggests they are expensive, so there’s no cost saving, and you may even be paying a premium to have them.

Presumably they have a lower power consumption than standard bulbs, but is that significant enough to result in a benefit to the owner (maybe better mpg) ?

So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?

Skyrider

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2018, 02:04:56 PM »
It's an arms race. LEDs are old technology, lasers are the in thing. I am quite happy with a £5 replaceable headlight bulb.

https://www.osram.com/am/specials/trends-in-automotive-lighting/laser-light-new-headlight-technology/index.jsp
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 02:13:09 PM by Deeps »

John Ratsey

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2018, 02:18:59 PM »
At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?

So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?
Good LED bulbs make night driving safer, both for the driver and others. I put some of the expensive ClassicCarLED H4 bulbs https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v  into my HR-V and night driving is now a tolerable experience rather than being very challenging. I'll note, however, that my eyes are well past their best-before date.

The dipped lights provides two well-focussed pools of white light - one in front of the vehicle and the other on the nearside edge of the road and help me see through the glare from the oncoming lights. I recall once seeing a pedestrian walking along the side of the road whom I might well have never seen with the standard bulbs. Main beam is like turning on floodlights.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

culzean

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2018, 02:33:41 PM »
At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?

So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?
Good LED bulbs make night driving safer, both for the driver and others. I put some of the expensive ClassicCarLED H4 bulbs https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v  into my HR-V and night driving is now a tolerable experience rather than being very challenging. I'll note, however, that my eyes are well past their best-before date.

The dipped lights provides two well-focussed pools of white light - one in front of the vehicle and the other on the nearside edge of the road and help me see through the glare from the oncoming lights. I recall once seeing a pedestrian walking along the side of the road whom I might well have never seen with the standard bulbs. Main beam is like turning on floodlights.

Those are my experiences as well, the LED bulbs make even higher output filament bulbs look like a glow-worm in a jam jar... they do give more light,  but IMHO it is the quality of the light that is more important and shows things up better.

The main benefit for me,  as you point out is the better light on nearside  verge so that you have a point of reference when vehicles are approaching you with dazzling headlights.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 02:38:33 PM by culzean »
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Hobo

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2018, 02:57:20 PM »
Look on the "bright" side - LED's are generally very reliable!

But I could possibly buy enough tungsten bulbs to last more than my lifetime for less than the cost of one LED assembly, just had a horrifying thought what if you ever needed more than one. ;D

jazzaro

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2018, 03:48:52 PM »
At the risk of seeming contrary, would someone like to explain why LED headlights are considered desirable ?

I anticipate someone will say “They’re brighter, therefore better”. Personally I disagree with the “arms race” that is putting more and brighter lights on the front of every new model. The standard lights on my Jazz are perfectly adequate - passengers have commented on how effective they are - without needing to be enhanced further. Having unnecessarily bright lights simply annoys or blinds other drivers, especially those SUV/crossover marques with high-mounted lights whose drivers don’t understand the concept of maintaining a safe following distance.

The preceding discussion suggests they are expensive, so there’s no cost saving, and you may even be paying a premium to have them.

Presumably they have a lower power consumption than standard bulbs, but is that significant enough to result in a benefit to the owner (maybe better mpg) ?

So what’s the point ? Is it just a fashion/ego thing ?
It's a thing of brightness.
Imho they are not adeguate considering the price of the car.
First there is only one lamp for dipped and high beam, when quite all other small cars have two lamps, one for dipped and another lamp for high beams.
Second, Jazz headlights lack in light distribution (good in front of the car, but bad in side parts) especially when high beams are on.
Third, when you switch between dipped and high beam, there is an short moment of darkness, when one filament is switching off and the other is switching on.
I come from a Renault  with an impressive halogen system (lamp for dipped beam, lamp for high beam, lamp for curve light, fog lights) and the difference in performace is clear. H4 halogen headlights are the cheapest solution for a car, and they provide the lowest performance in brightness, light distribution and glare.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 04:28:01 PM by jazzaro »

culzean

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2018, 03:55:07 PM »
On my Civic with separate dip and main headlight reflectors the Dip stay on when main is selected,  making for a great spread of light from headlights.  The LED H4 bulbs in my wifes Jazz have actually made her lights as good if not better than the Civic,  and she is happy to use dipped beam in the daytime now that there is no inevitable 'wearing out' of a filament involved and also instead of drawing 10 amps the headlights draw about 3 amps now,  what is not to like.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

ColinB

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2018, 03:57:18 PM »
Those are my experiences as well, the LED bulbs make even higher output filament bulbs look like a glow-worm in a jam jar... they do give more light,  but IMHO it is the quality of the light that is more important and shows things up better.

The main benefit for me,  as you point out is the better light on nearside  verge so that you have a point of reference when vehicles are approaching you with dazzling headlights.
Thanks for indulging my query. I'm not convinced, I'm afraid. What I'm hearing here is that you perceive that the LEDs enable you to see better when confronted by bright lights of oncoming vehicles, therefore you feel safer. Sorry guys, but those comments just emphasise what I thought, ie that the LEDs are brighter and therefore make the driver of that car feel safer by enabling them to overpower other people's lights (I see the comment about "light quality" but I'm not really sure what you mean by that ... brightness/intensity ? ... frequency/colour ? ... focus ?). That's great for you, but not so good for other road users who have to deal with the very bright lights. As I said, I find the standard lights perfectly OK and I don't consider them unsafe in any way.

And as for lasers, the emphasis in that link is that the lasers are brighter therefore can see further. Great (not). Notice that the techie testing the lights has to wear eye protection because, well, they are lasers. It'll be really great to have some dork in a BMW SUV tailgating you with those things on at full chat. Sadly though it looks like it's going to happen.

jazzaro

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2018, 04:19:49 PM »
Those are my experiences as well, the LED bulbs make even higher output filament bulbs look like a glow-worm in a jam jar... they do give more light,  but IMHO it is the quality of the light that is more important and shows things up better.

The main benefit for me,  as you point out is the better light on nearside  verge so that you have a point of reference when vehicles are approaching you with dazzling headlights.
Thanks for indulging my query. I'm not convinced, I'm afraid. What I'm hearing here is that you perceive that the LEDs enable you to see better when confronted by bright lights of oncoming vehicles, therefore you feel safer. Sorry guys, but those comments just emphasise what I thought, ie that the LEDs are brighter and therefore make the driver of that car feel safer by enabling them to overpower other people's lights (I see the comment about "light quality" but I'm not really sure what you mean by that ... brightness/intensity ? ... frequency/colour ? ... focus ?). That's great for you, but not so good for other road users who have to deal with the very bright lights. As I said, I find the standard lights perfectly OK and I don't consider them unsafe in any way.

And as for lasers, the emphasis in that link is that the lasers are brighter therefore can see further. Great (not). Notice that the techie testing the lights has to wear eye protection because, well, they are lasers. It'll be really great to have some dork in a BMW SUV tailgating you with those things on at full chat. Sadly though it looks like it's going to happen.
No.
The aim of a good headlight system is to produce a big amount of light (and this comes from high output sources as HID and LED), and to send the light to the right place, thanks to  shields, mirrors and lenses).
I don't want to put hid or led bulbs inside an headlight built for halogen bulb, this will provide both light than glare; I would like my lights to be more powerful as to see better on both sides of the car an longer in front of me, but also to not disturb or blind other road users. Using proper techniques (clear lenses, shields, fresnel lenses, hidden emitters and reflectors) we can have this enhancement.



So why not?

culzean

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2018, 04:20:28 PM »
Thanks for indulging my query. I'm not convinced, I'm afraid. What I'm hearing here is that you perceive that the LEDs enable you to see better when confronted by bright lights of oncoming vehicles, therefore you feel safer. Sorry guys, but those comments just emphasise what I thought, ie that the LEDs are brighter and therefore make the driver of that car feel safer by enabling them to overpower other people's lights (I see the comment about "light quality" but I'm not really sure what you mean by that ... brightness/intensity ? ... frequency/colour ? ... focus ?).


The light is whiter than any filament (6000K),  but not blue like the truly annoying German staff car HID projectors (about 8000 to 9000K).   I have seen things in or on the verge (including potholes) that I may well have missed with the standard Jazz lights.  As I have said previously, the bulbs are equivalent to about an 80Watt filament,  so not all that much more powerful than 65 watt standard, but quality of light is much more usable, we could all go back to carbide and acetylene lamps I suppose and drive around at the speed of a trotting horse..

As Jazzaro rightly says, standard Jazz lights are just about fit for purpose but only just IMHO,  and we should have got better with a car of the Jazzes price range.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

jazzaro

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2018, 04:35:52 PM »
Yep.
I still use halogen lamps, and I will not mount led bulbs on my headlight because I don't want to glare other road users.
Philips has made an h4 led bulb, the Ultinon H4 Led, but it is not legal in Europe with ECE regulations, but it's legal in Malysia, India and Japan so they can buy and use it...

culzean

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2018, 04:46:38 PM »
Yep.
I still use halogen lamps, and I will not mount led bulbs on my headlight because I don't want to glare other road users.
Philips has made an h4 led bulb, the Ultinon H4 Led, but it is not legal in Europe with ECE regulations, but it's legal in Malysia, India and Japan so they can buy and use it...

Legal in USA as well,  Europe is slow to take up new technology as usual, maybe in UK we can get them made legal after 2019 when we have left the technological backwater..
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Jocko

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2018, 06:22:53 PM »
I have no complaints about the quality or quantity of light my standard headlights put out. Perfect for the night driving I do.

andruec

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2018, 07:19:28 PM »
One thing that's easier to do with an LED array is beam shaping. Audi have pioneered that. Their matrix headlights can shape a shadow around vehicles to avoid glare whilst avoiding the need to dip headlights. They are also developing laser lighting but not to actually light the way but to draw a line on the road behind the vehicle to remind idiots not to get so close.


The purchase and lifetime cost of LEDs should be lower eventually. They are probably as good as it gets when it comes to producing light. Very reliable and very efficient. Unfortunately I suspect that at the moment we're in the R&D payback phase of the product. Give it a few more years and the cost will drop.

jazzaro

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2018, 10:15:48 PM »
I have no complaints about the quality or quantity of light my standard headlights put out. Perfect for the night driving I do.
Have you recently driven a car with a really good light equipment?
My first car was a Fiat Uno with glass headlights (no clear lenses) and R2 40/45w bulb, not halogen. I had the same opinion, perfect headlights...
Then I drove other cars with better equipment, and I understood how my car was not so perfect.
Now it's the same, driving a car with better headlights it's easy to see the lack of brightness of our Jazz, obvious considering how this headlights are made.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/honda/fit-4-door-wagon
This is the IIHS rating about Jazz headlights... Ok, they use SAE/DOT regulations so their headlights are slightly different from our ones, but the problem here is the technology used, old and cheap.

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