Author Topic: New owners.  (Read 7526 times)

Jocko

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New owners.
« on: June 18, 2018, 07:26:02 PM »
It saddens me to read the comments of some of the new owners of 2018 models. I get the impression, from reading the various threads, that there is more than a modicum of disappointment being experienced by many of the purchasers. Maybe this the norm when owners update from an earlier version of the car. Instead of revelling in the better features, and enjoying the new car, owners only see the things that are not as good as the old car. Perhaps it is an argument for always changing models/marques when you change vehicles.

trebor1652

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 07:32:52 PM »
It's one of those glass half full/empty scenarios.
We get used to things and don't like change.
Some can move on and some do begrudgingly. While others just like to complain.
That's the nature of the beast.

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Skyrider

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 07:34:18 PM »
It saddens me to read the comments of some of the new owners of 2018 models. I get the impression, from reading the various threads, that there is more than a modicum of disappointment being experienced by many of the purchasers. Maybe this the norm when owners update from an earlier version of the car. Instead of revelling in the better features, and enjoying the new car, owners only see the things that are not as good as the old car. Perhaps it is an argument for always changing models/marques when you change vehicles.

I agree, some people don't like change and bought Mk3 Jazz just because it is a Jazz even though it was a complete redesign. My 2016 Jazz was my first Jazz, I bought it because it suited my needs at the time and it was compared to numerous other cars. I liked it (apart from the appaling Atkinson engine) so I bought the updated 1.5 Jazz.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 07:49:57 PM by Skyrider »

trebor1652

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 07:49:25 PM »
It's a pity Honda only gave us"Hobson's choice" on the 1.5 engine.

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Skyrider

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 07:52:06 PM »
It's a pity Honda only gave us"Hobson's choice" on the 1.5 engine.

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I agree, I would have preferred a 1.5 SE. I do not need a plastic bodykit! Better still they could have binned the 1.3 engine but that would have had the economy fanatics in uproar.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 07:53:56 PM by Skyrider »

culzean

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 07:58:26 PM »
It's a pity Honda only gave us"Hobson's choice" on the 1.5 engine.

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Having more options in a car increases manufacturing costs and puts all the prices up,  that is why Jazz only available in 5 door and used to be only one engine size (until 1.2 appeared).  1.5 may appeal to some but maybe not everyone,  want more power = buy a Civic.  want more economy = buy a Jazz. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

trebor1652

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 08:04:19 PM »
Quite easy to put the 1.5 in an ex body, more choice. What extra cost?

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Skyrider

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 08:04:30 PM »
It's a pity Honda only gave us"Hobson's choice" on the 1.5 engine.

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Having more options in a car increases manufacturing costs and puts all the prices up,  that is why Jazz only available in 5 door and used to be only one engine size (until 1.2 appeared).  1.5 may appeal to some but maybe not everyone,  want more power = buy a Civic.  want more economy = buy a Jazz.

Buy a 1.5 Jazz, best of both worlds!

Dayjo

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 10:18:59 PM »
My EX Navi arrived, two months ago, today.

The only disappointment is, the noisier Atkinson cycle, compared to my three year old ES+.....

Oh! Yes.... I haven't managed better than 52mpg.
David.
Drive them 'til the roads wear out.......

Skyrider

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 10:22:04 PM »
My EX Navi arrived, two months ago, today.

The only disappointment is, the noisier Atkinson cycle, compared to my three year old ES+.....

Oh! Yes.... I haven't managed better than 52mpg.

What do you do , push it?

Dayjo

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 10:39:34 PM »
My EX Navi arrived, two months ago, today.

The only disappointment is, the noisier Atkinson cycle, compared to my three year old ES+.....

Oh! Yes.... I haven't managed better than 52mpg.

What do you do , push it?

I know, I'm a bit slow. But, I don't quite follow?

This is the result of an 86mile motorway/ A road, journey to Bridlington, in the MK2. Full of holiday luggage, and at full speed limit pace, all the way......




I hoped for an improvement with the new car.......
David.
Drive them 'til the roads wear out.......

andruec

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 11:34:42 AM »
Most of the improvement is going to be on the urban cycle. At normal motorway speeds the engine has to do a lot of work and that means it has to consume a lot of fuel. There's no practical way around that (better aerodynamics being about the only thing you can do). The fuel efficiency improvement comes primarily from the Atkinson cycle and you're never going to enter that engine mode at 70mph. Not even the CVT has a long enough gear ratio for that, probably because Atkinson mode just doesn't consume enough fuel to generate the power needed to keep the car going at 70mph.

You will manage to engage Atkinson cycle at 60mph or less on flat ground or downhill with the CVT box (and maybe in 6th on the manual) so cruising in lane one and being prepared to follow behind an HGV will give significantly improved mpg. That's how I nearly always drive motorways these days and in good conditions my Mk2 used to manage just above 60mpg driving the 190 miles between me and my Dad which is 95% dual carriageway/motorway. By contrast my Mk3 has been known to nearly get above 70mpg by journey's end with it once showing 79mpg while driving through the M6 roadworks north of Birmingham at 50mph.

Atkinson cycle comes into its own in urban areas and that's where it's saving the most. Places where you don't normally need much power and can therefore operate the engine in a leaner, more efficient manner.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 11:38:34 AM by andruec »

Skyrider

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2018, 11:55:03 AM »
I disagree. An engine is lightly loaded cruising at motorway speeds. It is acceleration, shifting a lump of metal and its contents up to speed that uses fuel. My MT 1.3 engine ran at about 2,500 revs at 60 mph and 3,000 revs at 70 mph. My 1.5 CVT engine runs at about 2,000 revs at 60 mph and 2,500 revs at 70 mph although this varies with gradient.. Cars use less fuel on motorways because there is no acceleration from a standstill and the engine is lightly loaded.

culzean

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2018, 12:33:55 PM »
I disagree. An engine is lightly loaded cruising at motorway speeds. It is acceleration, shifting a lump of metal and its contents up to speed that uses fuel. My MT 1.3 engine ran at about 2,500 revs at 60 mph and 3,000 revs at 70 mph. My 1.5 CVT engine runs at about 2,000 revs at 60 mph and 2,500 revs at 70 mph although this varies with gradient.. Cars use less fuel on motorways because there is no acceleration from a standstill and the engine is lightly loaded.

Sweet spot for most vehicles is steady 30 to 50 mph (depending upon how aerodynamic shape is) - engine is certainly not lightly loaded on motorway as air drag is high, so even if car is in high gear turning slower the ECU will still have to pump more fuel in to keep up speed.  Frequent acceleration around town is the killer  -  anything above about 30 mph friction and tyre rolling resistance take second place to drag as largest energy user. In fact IIRC electric vehicle range is determined at a steady 50mph, and as testers have found doing proper motorway speeds drastically reduces the range ( like 30% less range in some cases - even more if road is wet).

In colder weather air gets more dense as well to add to drag.

People who do 80+ on motorway are mainly company car drivers who do not care how much fuel they use.  Traveling at 60 results in much better mpg for private motorists.

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/80mph-motorway-fuel-costs/
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 01:44:26 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Skyrider

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Re: New owners.
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 12:47:12 PM »
If possible I always drive at the speed limit (ish) road conditions permitting. Every car I have owned or driven diesel or petrol powered has used less fuel on a motorway or long journey than when used in urban conditions.

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