Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 => Topic started by: Remco on October 23, 2018, 04:51:01 PM
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Hi everyone!
I bought a second hand Honda Jazz (2003, good maintenance history) only two weeks ago and I absolutely loved it but now already I am experiencing problems and I'm afraid they will get worse. Because I just got it I am doubting what my next steps will be. Any help in the diagnosis is highly appreciated!
With a cold engine/gearbox, especially in the morning, after I start up the engine I can reverse like normal. When I put it in drive however at first it does nothing and if I wait long enough it starts to creep forward.
From there I have no problems, can drive all day smoothly. Sometimes the first take off (with cold engine/gearbox) can take up to half a minute which of course is unacceptable, (especially when you have reversed out of a parking space and are on the road).
The other thing is that when you push the throttle during the wait, in an attempt to help it go forward it can go in fail-safe mode (flashing D light). I can then turn ignition off and on to get out of this mode and try again. The failure code registered by the computer is P1885: "Problem in CVT Drive Pulley Speed Sensor Circuit". It would be nice if the problem is indeed caused by this sensor or its circuit, but I have my doubts, because this fault is only displayed in these specific conditions. I cannot obtain a replacement sensor quickly and also don't want to spend more money on something if it is not likely to fix the problem. Especially because I'm not sure what I will do if a CVT overhaul is required.
My current theory is the following. Because it reverses I assume the reverse brake clutch and start clutch are working. That leaves the forward clutch. If this one is not operating properly when cold the computer will assume that it is applied and when the engine revs it throws the error because the drive pulley sensor value doesn't make sense if the car is not moving. Does that sound plausible?
Does anyone have any suggestions to diagnose it further (without spending a lot of money). Would it maybe help to change the gearbox oil (don't really expect it to). Otherwise I guess checking the forward clutch pressure at a garage would give more information.
Is there an explanation for this to happen in these circumstances only?
Thanks a lot for your help.
Kind regards,
Remco
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I found one more user with honda CVT with the same problem. Only this guy has to wait for 5-10 minutes before the car moves :o
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/72352-honda-city-cvt-does-not-move-forward.html
Unfortunately he does not let us know if the issue is resolved eventually.
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Update: I have replaced the transaxle oil with the genuine Honda CVT fluid. about 3.5 litres came out.
No improvement observed :(
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Another update: this week I experienced a few times that I was driving about 80-90 km/h and with a slight increase of throttle the rpm started to jump up and down a bit by 500 rpm or so. Then when releasing the throttle a bit the effect stops. Could be related although I find multiple possible explanations for this online (like also engine sensors).
Curious how this will develop. Maybe I should start looking for a replacement gearbox :'(
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Probably unrelated to your CVT issue, but I seem to vaguely recall the Jazz before the minor 2004 midlife face-lift had drive by wire throttle control.
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Last week during driving it was jumping in RPM again and is now also showing the P1890 shift control system fault, and then going into safe mode while driving (flashing D). Now I really expect to be changing the gearbox. I will keep updating in case anyone runs into the same problems in the future.
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On our 54 plate cvt,when cold,& put into gear the engine wants to stall.When pulling up at traffic lights,junctions & islands it does the same.Once warm it is ok .
No fault codes.
Any ideas ?
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Hi Bentleymop,
I would say this could well be due to a lack of engine power. So you could think about changing spark plugs, ignitions coils etc. I read about a guy on a dutch forum who solved a similar problem by adjusting the valve clearance, but he was running the car on LPG.
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I removed and disassembled the gearbox and found one possible problem with the starting clutch.
(https://www.problemcar.nl/file/upload/image/227637/whatsapp-image-2019-01-22-at-160146.jpeg)
This is supposed to be 4 parts like shown here, but I can't separate them (already removed the snapring), which makes me think there is a defect there. Does anyone have experience with this?
(https://www.newco-autoline.de/docs/IMG_5135%20-%20Kopie.JPG)
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CVT gearbox is not good. It is timing bomb in your car.
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Haha yes, maybe but it's too late to reconsider :)
I managed to separate the starting clutch by blowing compressed air in the shaft that goes trough the clutch when it is assembled. It was very dirty inside. I will replace the rubbers etc. and see if the situation improves.
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I don't think the CVT is too bad reliability wise, particularly if you compare it with some of the automated manual boxes that are out there now. Even some conventional auto gearboxes are problematic, the Jatco gearboxes fitted to many small-medium VW and Rover cars were a disaster waiting to happen.
In any case, the Jazz manual gearbox is not exactly trouble free either.
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I lost my faith a bit when I found out that my defective transmission was already previously replaced. I found out because my car is from 2003 and the transaxle must be from 2005 or later because it has the later design starter clutch (bigger friction disks and multiple springs). The car does have 180.000 km on the clock but was really well maintained.
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I presume you are still going to put it back together and see how it goes?
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Yes, but I will probably be using parts from two transmissions. This weekend will probably be the first attempt :)
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Sounds like a fun weekend! 8)
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Oh definitely! I'm learning a lot of new things,which is great. I will create a topic to share my experience with anyone crazy enough to attempt something like this themselves 8)
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Oh definitely! I'm learning a lot of new things,which is great. I will create a topic to share my experience with anyone crazy enough to attempt something like this themselves 8)
I would be up for that too. What's the worst that can happen? It all goes horribly wrong and you end up buying a secondhand gearbox, which is what many people would have done in the first place.
Just think of all the fun they're missing ;)
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So this weekend I put everything back together and it seems to be working! It was a journey though with three sheared off bolts (on the CVT) but I got there. :)
The only doubt I have now is that I can hear the starter clutch engaging with a sort of poom sound. I already had a small suspicion about the piston that I bought for it, because it is not a genuine Honda part (which is not available as a separate part). Later I saw that it fits a bit tighter on the hub of the starter clutch housing. There is an O-ring in between these parts. It is shown here:
https://www.newco-autoline.de/docs/IDS-SWRA-starting%20clutch%20piston.pdf (https://www.newco-autoline.de/docs/IDS-SWRA-starting%20clutch%20piston.pdf)
What causes the sound is probably a stick-slip effect at this interface. So you hear it every time you drive from a stop. Not sure if it's a problem, we will see what happens! Maybe its just because its new.
Edit: next day the sound has disappeared :)
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So this weekend I put everything back together and it seems to be working!
Hi! I hope you are still reading this forum.
How did you end up fixing the CVT? Changed to another? I put in a new CVT and it won't move forward until it warms up. Thanks for any information.
On another site they write a problem in these nodes/ Forward Cluth or oil ring