Intelligent Speed Assist Tech May Become Mandatory

[ColinS]

If this doesn't start some debate, I'm not sure what will: https://etsc.eu/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa/ 

[Jocko]

At face value it would appear to be a good idea, but my sat nav displays the speed limit but is often wrong. It shows 30 on a 60 mph dual carriageway, because there is a 30 mph road running parallel. Honda's idea of using the camera is okay, but it is so easy to defeat. The fly boys will just disregard it anyway. Only the law abiding drivers will find it useful.

[ColinB]

The technology has to get better. The camera system on my Jazz mis-reads the signs too frequently for it to be reliable as a safety system (of course that may also be a fault of the signage). Another issue is that the system doesn't apply the brakes, it simply cuts the throttle; that means anyone following doesn't get the cue of your brake lights to tell him you're slowing down ... and its surprising how quickly you decelerate from 60 if the throttle is suddenly closed ! After a couple of experiments I've not used it again.

[culzean]

The technology has to get better. The camera system on my Jazz mis-reads the signs too frequently for it to be reliable as a safety system (of course that may also be a fault of the signage). Another issue is that the system doesn't apply the brakes, it simply cuts the throttle; that means anyone following doesn't get the cue of your brake lights to tell him you're slowing down ... and its surprising how quickly you decelerate from 60 if the throttle is suddenly closed ! After a couple of experiments I've not used it again.

This kind of thing is exactly why its all gone quiet on self-driving cars.  I read an article about when they had some self-driving vehicles they were showing off in Los Angeles - sure the cars stopped for red lights but it turned out that in that area they had  fitted transponders onto the traffic signals to tell the car wirelessly what colour the lights were showing because the vision systems on the vehicles were no-where near good enough. 

The reason Uber and Google, waymo and all the others moved their testing from California to Arizona was that the regulations were tightened up in California about notifying the authorities about when the 'safety driver' had to take over control,  the authorities in Arizona waived that condition, and a lot of others it seems, also the weather in Arizona is pretty much clear all the time,  non of that nasty rain and snow that the sensors can't handle...

[Jocko]

The European Parliament has voted to introduce mandatory speed limiters on all new cars, vans, buses and trucks, sold in the EU from 2022. I wonder if this will mean that HGV's will be limited to 40 mph on single carriageways in Scotland, the current maximum speed limit. That should be fun!

[John Ratsey]

Limiting all vehicles to 10% above the national speed limit would be easier to implement. Speed limit sign recognition technology works fairly well although the Toyota Corolla I recently drove in New Zealand couldn't figure out the black diagonal stripe on circular white background sign. There will need to a lot of spending on road signs and/or improvement of the mobile data network (and who will pay the usage bill?) if vehicles are always going to have reliable data on the prevailing speed limit. The 20mph when lights are flashing signs outside some schools will also challenge the technology.

[diffusion]

I saw the item on the Beeb Ceefax.

Quote -Campaigners welcomed the move, saying it would save thousands of lives. - unquote.

Absolute BS!

And of course the Beeb had to get a response from a so-called charity, charity?? 'Brake' who call it a "landmark day".

Do these people know how to drive? If you are observant of the conditions you have no need to brake.

The essential point is that the posted speed limit is _not_  a guaranteed safety element.

Exceeding a posted limit is _not_  a guaranteed way to loss of life.

In built-up areas, if vehicles are limited to 30, or the ridiculous 20, that does not make it safer. It's not drivers exceeding the limits there that cause deaths, it's irresponsible, unaware or drunk pedestrians putting themselves in the path of moving vehicles.

On open roads, again, it's down to observation. I know many A-roads with the 60 limit in Scotland that you actually need to be doing around 35-40 to successfully negotiate acute Z-bends.

[Jocko]

I know many A-roads with the 60 limit in Scotland that you actually need to be doing around 35-40 to successfully negotiate acute Z-bends.

I drive them every day!

Initially, bikes won't be part of the legislation, but it is intended to include them, eventually. Can you imagine the outcry that will cause?

[diffusion]

Ahh, there's bikes and 'bikes'.

My foldup fits nicely in my the boot of my newly acquired Jazz, so I look forward to going to my usual places, parking up and going for a leisurely pedal.

I stopped being a born-again hooligan some years ago, thinking back to front-facing cameras

Is there going to be a nationwide recall for bicycles to have 20mph limiters put on - think of all those hoohas fed up disturbing pensioners on the pavements or pedestrianised areas and hooning onto the roads.

And bikes, well, at what age does the possible introduction of electronics be viable?

Many many years ago this idea came up. I still think the same now.

If they want it, apply it to _every_  powered vehicle.

That applies of course to those that have certain coloured lights. If they can't get to your accident, burglary or fire in time then too bad.

[ColinB]

Speed limit sign recognition technology works fairly well ...

Sorry John, I would disagree. I've attached some Google shots of locations I pass regularly where my Jazz camera system always gets it wrong. If I'd had the "intelligent" speed limiter engaged each time the consequences would have been interesting. Maybe it'll be better if the system is based on a combination of GPS and a camera, but at present the technology simply isn't good enough.

[Jocko]

The last one is interesting. Assuming the camera was able to read the 20 mph sign, would it  set the limiter to 20 regardless of the lights?

[culzean]

The speed limiters at present obviously cannot read and interpret even clean signs properly, and this obviously depends if signs are correct size, are there any other writing on the signs, is the sign clear against a muddled background, is the lighting good, ( in fact most of  the road signs in our area have a good coating of moss and dirt as the council don't bother cleaning them any more, some have tree branches in front of them).  They could be linked to GPS but although I update my maps regularly I still come across roads where my satnav speed display ( it has a limit for road and actual car speed displayed, if car speed in red you are exceeding the speed the satnav has in its database for that stretch of road ) does not agree with the actual speed limit signs. I think they would need transponders in speed limit signs that can be interrogated by electronics in the vehicle rather than expecting the vehicle system to pick signs up visually, because as we have seen present visual systems ( including autonomous vehicles ) are not a patch off an attentive humans abilities - and probably never will be....  As I have said before the roads and infrastructure are going to have to change drastically and at great expense to handle autonomous vehicles because expecting their systems to be as good as humans is not going to happen. 


My main worry about all this automation is that it makes humans lazy and inattentive, anyone who has ever watched plane crash investigation knows that nowadays pilots only mind the computer that flies the plane, but when sensors or power fail and the autopilot switches itself off the pilots no longer seem to know what to do and often a perfectly airworthy plane crashes...

[guest4871]

I read this as the speed limiter would work on GPS i.e. the limiter would work according to mapped speed limits.

Also there would be an over ride on the accelerator pressure. Also you can switch the system off each time you start the car. It would auto default to "on" when the ignition is turned on, so it would need turning off each time.

The mandatory bit relates to the fitting to the car and comes from UN not EU who will adopt it.

[Jocko]

comes from UN not EU who will adopt it.

Advisory from the UN, but made mandatory by the EU vote.

[ColinB]

The last one is interesting. Assuming the camera was able to read the 20 mph sign, would it  set the limiter to 20 regardless of the lights?

The last one is indeed interesting, but not because of the occasional flashing lights. The circular surround to the numeral is not red, which means it’s an advisory speed, not a mandatory limit. The Jazz camera reads it just like any other limit sign.