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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Main Beam Assist
« Last post by culzean on October 22, 2018, 10:54:18 PM »
The torque converter is a simple fluid coupling, it is pretty much indestructible in normal use, you can't even overheat it's oil as the CVTs oil temperature is regulated by the engine coolant temperature.
Hmm. So that leaves us wondering why so many automatics with idle stop require that the brake pedal be kept pressed whilst (it appears) the automatic cars that have a clutch do not.

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/stop-start

"If you're driving an automatic, it's even easier; the system kicks in and automatically deactivates your engine whenever you've stepped on the brake and reactivates it whenever you press the accelerator."

I suppose it could just be poor design by Honda. It begs the question why they'd bother to fit a switch on the gear lever to detect moving out of neutral.

A torque converter will naturally try to creep the car forward, it does not fully disengage the drive like a clutch can, there is always a bit of drive due to viscous fluid friction.
Yes, but does that explain why idle stop is designed to require the driver to keep the brake pedal pressed? Doesn't sound like it in which we seem to be left with 'Honda are stupid' as the only explanation.

Every auto car I have ever driven needed the foot brake to be depressed to start it (even in park) this is because torque converter never disconnects  drive completely and will creep at tickover and surge forward if throttle is pressed while starting, it is a double safety in case 'park' locking pin broken or not engaged because mechanically seized.  So it follows that footbrake is used to hold car in traffic if park not engaged. Idle stop just complicates things on an auto, meaning that interlocks have to be provided to cover a variety of situation that would not normally happen.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Main Beam Assist
« Last post by andruec on October 22, 2018, 10:40:31 PM »
Or maybe people are blaming Honda for not accomodating their personal preferences.

It's not so much personal preference, it's bemusement about how Honda - and other manufacturers - have been allowed to get away with designing their stop-start system so that it doesn't comply with the Highway Code.
Exactly. Having the switch on the gear lever is the bit that makes no sense to me and suggests that it's a fault. They have gone to the expense of designing it such that the engine will restart when the driver deselects neutral but then they allow the engine to restart when the car is in neutral, rendering that functionality pointless.

If the engine didn't restart when you released the brake pedal if it was in neutral then it would be a sensible system. But if it's a flaw why is it still present on newer models?

It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Main Beam Assist
« Last post by Skyrider on October 22, 2018, 10:34:38 PM »
Or maybe people are blaming Honda for not accomodating their personal preferences.

It's not so much personal preference, it's bemusement about how Honda - and other manufacturers - have been allowed to get away with designing their stop-start system so that it doesn't comply with the Highway Code.

Rule 114:
"In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again"

I suspect that Rule 114 was written when automatic cars were a rarity in the UK. The UK lags the rest of the world by many decades in the use of auto transmissions. The UK is a tiny market for Honda, we get what the big markets, USA, China, India, etc want.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Main Beam Assist
« Last post by Dayjo on October 22, 2018, 10:33:39 PM »
We have gone from headlights to torque converters, staying on topic on clubjazz is not normally achieved for long.

No chance of staying on topic, on any of the pensioner's forums!   ;)
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Ended up with this one..
« Last post by John Ratsey on October 22, 2018, 10:31:19 PM »
I am expecting the stated mpg to be actually less by some 8mpg.
Depends how you drive. I beat the figures given for my Mk 1, on a regular basis.
But manufacturers weren't gaming the system so much when the Mk 1 was released. Purchasers expect the newer models to be more fuel-efficient so the manufacturers tweak the hardware and software to give better numbers in the standard tests. Some of these improvements carry through to the real life usage. Some don't. Honest John's real mpg https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/ shows this trend although it's small with the Jazz. Also, you are likely to see reduced mpg during the winter months but the numbers will improve once spring is here.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Main Beam Assist
« Last post by ColinB on October 22, 2018, 10:28:06 PM »
Or maybe people are blaming Honda for not accomodating their personal preferences.

It's not so much personal preference, it's bemusement about how Honda - and other manufacturers - have been allowed to get away with designing their stop-start system so that it doesn't comply with the Highway Code.

Rule 114:
"In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again"
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Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 / Re: Noise from gearbox
« Last post by smilertoo on October 22, 2018, 09:56:15 PM »
What part of the gearbox is going when it's hard to get into certain gears? When i go into reverse it's 50/50 whether it works or just sits out of gear even though it seems to be in reverse position, going into 5th needs a good shove as well compared to the rest.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Main Beam Assist
« Last post by Skyrider on October 22, 2018, 09:55:19 PM »
The torque converter is a simple fluid coupling, it is pretty much indestructible in normal use, you can't even overheat it's oil as the CVTs oil temperature is regulated by the engine coolant temperature.
Hmm. So that leaves us wondering why so many automatics with idle stop require that the brake pedal be kept pressed whilst (it appears) the automatic cars that have a clutch do not.

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/stop-start

"If you're driving an automatic, it's even easier; the system kicks in and automatically deactivates your engine whenever you've stepped on the brake and reactivates it whenever you press the accelerator."

I suppose it could just be poor design by Honda. It begs the question why they'd bother to fit a switch on the gear lever to detect moving out of neutral.

A torque converter will naturally try to creep the car forward, it does not fully disengage the drive like a clutch can, there is always a bit of drive due to viscous fluid friction.
Yes, but does that explain why idle stop is designed to require the driver to keep the brake pedal pressed? Doesn't sound like it in which we seem to be left with 'Honda are stupid' as the only explanation.

Or maybe people are blaming Honda for not accomodating their personal preferences. I have no problem with how the CVT, its stop start, or its override works. With millions of Honda CVTs on the roads of the world if there was a problem with how it worked it would soon come to Honda's attention.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Best Camera.
« Last post by Skyrider on October 22, 2018, 09:52:17 PM »
Apart from the people talking about MK1 fuel consumption.
I was responding to  comment by the original poster of the thread. If he cannot change it for something else who can.
But I will just f*ck off and take my comments with me.

Lighten up Jocko, I was only explaining what was going on. What is that gadget on your steering wheel?
10
Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Main Beam Assist
« Last post by andruec on October 22, 2018, 09:49:06 PM »
The torque converter is a simple fluid coupling, it is pretty much indestructible in normal use, you can't even overheat it's oil as the CVTs oil temperature is regulated by the engine coolant temperature.
Hmm. So that leaves us wondering why so many automatics with idle stop require that the brake pedal be kept pressed whilst (it appears) the automatic cars that have a clutch do not.

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/stop-start

"If you're driving an automatic, it's even easier; the system kicks in and automatically deactivates your engine whenever you've stepped on the brake and reactivates it whenever you press the accelerator."

I suppose it could just be poor design by Honda. It begs the question why they'd bother to fit a switch on the gear lever to detect moving out of neutral.

A torque converter will naturally try to creep the car forward, it does not fully disengage the drive like a clutch can, there is always a bit of drive due to viscous fluid friction.
Yes, but does that explain why idle stop is designed to require the driver to keep the brake pedal pressed? Doesn't sound like it in which we seem to be left with 'Honda are stupid' as the only explanation.
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