Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 => Topic started by: guest7581 on March 21, 2018, 05:30:52 PM
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I have a 2004 Honda Jazz 1.4. There is a loud oscillating sound when i let out the clutch through the gears. When the clutch pedal is pressed down, no sound.
There seems to be mixed thoughts on this... throw out bearing vs. input shaft bearing vs. whatever else. I've ruled out wheel bearing noise because its quiet while coasting. It appears to make this noise only while accelerating, because when i let off the gas while moving, the noise dissipates. I will be fixing this myself and want to start troubleshooting in the right place... obviously.
Any insight would be helpful and appreciated. I have included a video URL below to see and hear how the action and sound.
TIA... Ken
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysjaxx6v3enkhb6/Honda%20Noise.mp4?dl=0
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I have a 2004 Honda Jazz 1.4. There is a loud oscillating sound when i let out the clutch through the gears. When the clutch pedal is pressed down, no sound.
There seems to be mixed thoughts on this... throw out bearing vs. input shaft bearing vs. whatever else. I've ruled out wheel bearing noise because its quiet while coasting. It appears to make this noise only while accelerating, because when i let off the gas while moving, the noise dissipates. I will be fixing this myself and want to start troubleshooting in the right place... obviously.
Any insight would be helpful and appreciated. I have included a video URL below to see and hear how the action and sound.
TIA... Ken
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysjaxx6v3enkhb6/Honda%20Noise.mp4?dl=0
That would suggest clutch bearing
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Are you saying the clutch release bearing?
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Are you saying the clutch release bearing?
I thought that was more of a squeal... no?
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Release bearing makes noise when you push the clutch down - foot off the clutch, there would be no noise.
If it goes quiet when you de-clutch, i.e push the pedal down, then the problem is in the gearbox. If the noise occurs in and out of gear with the clutch up, probably input shaft bearings.
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Release bearing makes noise when you push the clutch down - foot off the clutch, there would be no noise.
If it goes quiet when you de-clutch, i.e push the pedal down, then the problem is in the gearbox. If the noise occurs in and out of gear with the clutch up, probably input shaft bearings.
Would you check anything else (gearbox oil, tranny oil) before tearing into the transmission?
Or is this definitely the input shaft bearing?
Easiest first right?
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This recent gearbox discussion might be relevant https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=9811.0 (https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=9811.0).
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So... it sounds like you can replace the following without removing the gearbox or bell housing from the car... is that right? I've never worked on a Jazz before.
-Differential / Crown wheel bearings
-Laygear / Input shaft bearings
-Diff pinion / Mainshaft bearings
-Oil Seals
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Your best bet is to look up the fault on the US site - fitfreak.net
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Your best bet is to look up the fault on the US site - fitfreak.net
I posted there... no help :(
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Usual method is to remove the gearbox from the car and split on the bench, but the company Jocko used in the other thread appears to split the gearbox in situ. I was a bit sceptical, but he was delighted with the results.
On the strength of that, I would probably have a go at the same idea if I was sure the clutch was good. If the clutch hadn't been touched for a long time, you may as well take the gearbox off and do the clutch at the same time.
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Usual method is to remove the gearbox from the car and split on the bench, but the company Jocko used in the other thread appears to split the gearbox in situ. I was a bit sceptical, but he was delighted with the results.
On the strength of that, I would probably have a go at the same idea if I was sure the clutch was good. If the clutch hadn't been touched for a long time, you may as well take the gearbox off and do the clutch at the same time.
Quick question:
I jacked the front end up and ran through the gears (wheels spinning). No sound... wtf? Any thoughts? Apparently, whatever is making that noise only makes it when the weight or resistance of the car is there.
Again... when driving (moving) and I put it in neutral... no sound, that's why I ruled out wheel bearings. When I Jack the car up and engage gears, no sound... what do these symptoms point to?
TIA
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Bad bearings will be quieter when they are not under load.
When you apply resistance to the drive, i.e propelling the car, the shafts in the gearbox are forced apart slightly as the drive is transferred from shaft to shaft via the gears. This forces the ball bearings harder into the races on the outer side, and it's the bearing races which are damaged and cause the noise.
Does that make sense?
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Bad bearings will be quieter when they are not under load.
When you apply resistance to the drive, i.e propelling the car, the shafts in the gearbox are forced apart slightly as the drive is transferred from shaft to shaft via the gears. This forces the ball bearings harder into the races on the outer side, and it's the bearing races which are damaged and cause the noise.
Does that make sense?
So... input shaft bearing then?
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Bad bearings will be quieter when they are not under load.
When you apply resistance to the drive, i.e propelling the car, the shafts in the gearbox are forced apart slightly as the drive is transferred from shaft to shaft via the gears. This forces the ball bearings harder into the races on the outer side, and it's the bearing races which are damaged and cause the noise.
Does that make sense?
So... input shaft bearing then?
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Any yes... that makes sense.
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That does make a lot of sense what a great explanation.
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I know longer use this forum, but I have been asked by a member to comment on your problem. I tried sending a PM but you apparently do not allow them.
I have just had the very same noise, as your video clip shows, fixed, by having the gearbox bearings replaced. The way to check the input shaft bearing is, with the engine running and the car in neutral and stationary, depress and release the clutch pedal. If the noise is there with the pedal released and goes away when the pedal is depressed then it is the input shaft bearing which is faulty. The only part of the gearbox which is rotating at this time is the input shaft. This is a common fault with GD models of the Jazz. I was assured that it gets worse but does not lead to a transmission failure. I ran mine for several thousand miles before the noise became unbearable. At first it only seemed to be noticeable in first gear, but then started to make its presence felt further and further up the gears. Sometimes it would disappear completely for 20 or 30 seconds (which was even more worrying!).
I got quotes from a garage who had a Honda trained mechanic and from a couple of transmission specialists. The Honda mechanic said the box had to come out and be stripped on the bench, at a cost to repair of £1000. The transmission specialist who did the job said they could do it in place at a cost, including all seals and bearings (he said it was pointless stripping it down and only replacing the input shaft bearing), of £324. The car is now like a new vehicle.
I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.
You mention the release bearing. The release bearing only makes a noise as you first start to depress the pedal and goes away once pressure is applied. It is quiet with the pedal released (I did a huge amount of research, as you may gather).
As I said earlier, I no longer follow this site, but if you have any further questions or comments, for me, personally, you can PM me. The administrator sends a copy of any PMs to my personal email account
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I know longer use this forum, but I have been asked by a member to comment on your problem. I tried sending a PM but you apparently do not allow them.
I have just had the very same noise, as your video clip shows, fixed, by having the gearbox bearings replaced. The way to check the input shaft bearing is, with the engine running and the car in neutral and stationary, depress and release the clutch pedal. If the noise is there with the pedal released and goes away when the pedal is depressed then it is the input shaft bearing which is faulty. The only part of the gearbox which is rotating at this time is the input shaft. This is a common fault with GD models of the Jazz. I was assured that it gets worse but does not lead to a transmission failure. I ran mine for several thousand miles before the noise became unbearable. At first it only seemed to be noticeable in first gear, but then started to make its presence felt further and further up the gears. Sometimes it would disappear completely for 20 or 30 seconds (which was even more worrying!).
I got quotes from a garage who had a Honda trained mechanic and from a couple of transmission specialists. The Honda mechanic said the box had to come out and be stripped on the bench, at a cost to repair of £1000. The transmission specialist who did the job said they could do it in place at a cost, including all seals and bearings (he said it was pointless stripping it down and only replacing the input shaft bearing), of £324. The car is now like a new vehicle.
I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.
You mention the release bearing. The release bearing only makes a noise as you first start to depress the pedal and goes away once pressure is applied. It is quiet with the pedal released (I did a huge amount of research, as you may gather).
As I said earlier, I no longer follow this site, but if you have any further questions or comments, for me, personally, you can PM me. The administrator sends a copy of any PMs to my personal email account
I will diagnose as outlined, the report back. I am in Switzerland and refuse to pay Swiss prices for the work. If I have to buy tools to get it done, I'd rather pay myself and learn something.
Thank you again. Will follow up tomorrow.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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I know longer use this forum, but I have been asked by a member to comment on your problem. I tried sending a PM but you apparently do not allow them.
I have just had the very same noise, as your video clip shows, fixed, by having the gearbox bearings replaced. The way to check the input shaft bearing is, with the engine running and the car in neutral and stationary, depress and release the clutch pedal. If the noise is there with the pedal released and goes away when the pedal is depressed then it is the input shaft bearing which is faulty. The only part of the gearbox which is rotating at this time is the input shaft. This is a common fault with GD models of the Jazz. I was assured that it gets worse but does not lead to a transmission failure. I ran mine for several thousand miles before the noise became unbearable. At first it only seemed to be noticeable in first gear, but then started to make its presence felt further and further up the gears. Sometimes it would disappear completely for 20 or 30 seconds (which was even more worrying!).
I got quotes from a garage who had a Honda trained mechanic and from a couple of transmission specialists. The Honda mechanic said the box had to come out and be stripped on the bench, at a cost to repair of £1000. The transmission specialist who did the job said they could do it in place at a cost, including all seals and bearings (he said it was pointless stripping it down and only replacing the input shaft bearing), of £324. The car is now like a new vehicle.
I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.
You mention the release bearing. The release bearing only makes a noise as you first start to depress the pedal and goes away once pressure is applied. It is quiet with the pedal released (I did a huge amount of research, as you may gather).
As I said earlier, I no longer follow this site, but if you have any further questions or comments, for me, personally, you can PM me. The administrator sends a copy of any PMs to my personal email account
I will diagnose as outlined, the report back. I am in Switzerland and refuse to pay Swiss prices for the work. If I have to buy tools to get it done, I'd rather pay myself and learn something.
Thank you again. Will follow up tomorrow.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Just checked... My PM is set to "All Members", don't know why it's not working.
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I do not think an amateur could do it in situ (or a garage who only did the repair occasionally). The transmission specialist said they do them regularly (one or two a week), and I imagine he had specialist tools, such as dummy shafts, temporary open housings and the like.
I would think that the garage Jocko used would probably have done the first few by the traditional route, i.e. removing the gearbox and splitting it on the bench, before realising they could do them in situ, and devising a system to do so.
Unless you understand how these gearboxes come apart, or are willing to take the risk of writing the gearbox off, I would think a DIYer would probably be best served by going down the the gearbox removal route. At least you would have it on the bench, you could see what you are doing, and there's the added advantage that you can check the condition of the clutch while the gearbox is off.
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I think I'll pull it to see what's going on. Apparently, the Jazz is notorious for bearings going out in the gearbox... somewhere they thought it's because they use round bearings and not rollers.
Anyway... another reason i would want to pull the whole thing is because, it may not just be the input shaft bearing, the whole gearbox may need new bearings.... lol. I found a few video's (link's below) that indicate that it may not ONLY be the input shaft bearing. I wonder if there is a way to tell before cracking it open. It would be great to order the parts needed while i get her opened up...
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Any noise which relates to engine speed is probably input shaft, if it relates to road speed you are more likely looking at output shaft or differential bearings. Once the gearbox is off, you'll probably be able to hear and feel the input shaft bearings if you spin the input shaft by hand.
Input shaft bearings are the ones which usually go on the Jazz, but if you are going to the trouble of splitting the gearbox and intend keeping the car for a while, I would say it would make sense to do all the bearings and oil seals. Input shaft bearings and seals is about £25-£30, whilst a full gearbox kit is approx. £70. If you intend selling the car in the near future, just do the input shaft. ;)
There are quite a bit of information and videos about regarding splitting these gearboxes, look for Civic gearboxes too as they had the same gearbox fitted, with the same weaknesses.
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Any noise which relates to engine speed is probably input shaft, if it relates to road speed you are more likely looking at output shaft or differential bearings. Once the gearbox is off, you'll probably be able to hear and feel the input shaft bearings if you spin the input shaft by hand.
Input shaft bearings are the ones which usually go on the Jazz, but if you are going to the trouble of splitting the gearbox and intend keeping the car for a while, I would say it would make sense to do all the bearings and oil seals. Input shaft bearings and seals is about £25-£30, whilst a full gearbox kit is approx. £70. If you intend selling the car in the near future, just do the input shaft. ;)
There are quite a bit of information and videos about regarding splitting these gearboxes, look for Civic gearboxes too as they had the same gearbox fitted, with the same weaknesses.
I'll be coming and going from the US to Europe off and on for the next 5 years at least. I just got married to a Swiss :)
So, my intention is to keep it. Other than that, it's fascinating to learn how the gearbox works and instead of paying someone to do it, I can spend the money building up my tools here.
Anyway... I'm going to order some tools and a bearing kit to do all the bearings. I have a P.O. Box in Germany to receive my orders... do you happen to know of any kit suppliers in Germany? I'm only finding suppliers in the UK.
Also, any other supplies to gather specific to this job that you would recommend? Gaskets, puller, circlip pliers, etc... ?
Ken
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Anyway... I'm going to order some tools and a bearing kit to do all the bearings. I have a P.O. Box in Germany to receive my orders... do you happen to know of any kit suppliers in Germany? I'm only finding suppliers in the UK.
Also, any other supplies to gather specific to this job that you would recommend? Gaskets, puller, circlip pliers, etc... ?
No idea about German suppliers, but I doubt you will have any problem with the ebay sellers shipping over to Germany. So long as the bearings are SKF/FAG/NTN/Timken etc., they should be fine.
I have never done anything with a Jazz gearbox, but from the drawings and the internet videos, they look like a straightforward gearbox to split. Obviously, having access to a good workshop with a hydraulic press, bearing pullers, oil seal drivers, etc. is ideal, but you can improvise in most areas. What is important is a good clean working area that is large enough so that you can lay everything out in some sort of order. You should be able to pick up tips regarding specialist tools, gasket materials, etc., from internet videos, or from the relevant section of the workshop manual - but remember that you are only swapping the bearings from the ends of the shafts.
http://www.hondafitjazz.com/transmission_manual.html
In addition, you may or may not need some way of heating up parts you have to remove. It may be possible to manage without, but you will only find out when you actually get into it, and heat will make any difficult bearings pull easily. Ideally, you need something hotter than a plumbing type blowtorch, something that will get the old bearing races cherry red, such as oxy-acetylene, oxy-propane, or mapp gas torch.
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So... to follow up. It was the input shaft bearing. Video link below. I'm taking photo or video requests for the next day while i have this open...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/20oa413g9sya3pi/20180415_143436.mp4?dl=0