Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: JazzLeon on August 06, 2016, 11:25:34 AM
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Has anyone tried to retrofit the OEM cruise control? And did it work?
I have a 2011 1.4 GG3 Jazz with the steering wheel as shown below:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll225/kleinpalomino/IMG_20160806_071851725_zpsnjsldtv0.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/kleinpalomino/media/IMG_20160806_071851725_zpsnjsldtv0.jpg.html)
And I have this one ready to install:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll225/kleinpalomino/IMG_20160806_071700802_zpssbbnvh62.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/kleinpalomino/media/IMG_20160806_071700802_zpssbbnvh62.jpg.html)
I've tested the dash cluster and the cruise control lights work. I read something on a 4 pole connector to the brake pedal. Does anyone know where I can find this? Crawling under the dash hasn't made me any smarter...
If it will not work I'm anyhow changing the plastic wheel for the leather one. 8)
Thanks!
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Might require the option to be enabled in the ECM/PCM, if so that would need Honda HDS software & interface.
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TG
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Thanks. That's one thing I already have in my mind.
But anyone around with actual experience?
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Isn't there a lot more to it than the controls?
Does the cruise control work via the engine or braking or both?
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works through same mechanism as the feed to the speedometer - just controls engine revs to keep vehicle speed the same, can still go faster than the set speed downhill as only engine braking (not ABS) available.
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Thanks. That's one thing I already have in my mind.
But anyone around with actual experience?
No actual experience but maybe you'd like some information.
I'll write in general terms for a wider audience and assume the GE is the same as the GG.
Anyone investigating the wiring in the steering column and steering wheel should take precautions to avoid triggering the airbag - i.e. disconnect the battery.
Standard cruise control (CC) does not brake, it only controls throttle position to maintain speed.
The control buttons, blanking plate & wiring loom are interchangeable between the different steering wheels.
Honda often seems to omit the wires from the loom if an option is not fitted. The multi-pin connectors will be the same size & format but you may need to add extra pins from a similar Honda plug, there are different sized pins in green and white plugs.
The airbag trigger, audio control, info/reset buttons, and cruise controls must pass through the cable reel in the steering column. This usually is a standard part and has enough separate wires to support the options, but the connector from the cable reel on the dashboard side may be missing pins and wires for the feature you want to add (i.e. cars without steering wheel audio controls do not have wires from the cable reel to the audio head unit but two wires and pins can be added to support this feature).
The basic parts needed to support cruise control are - output shaft speed sensor, throttle position sensor, throttle actuator, throttle pedal position, brake pedal switch and clutch pedal or auto position switch. In their basic form these are on every car, but cruise control cars have a 2-pole 4-pin brake pedal switch, and a second clutch position switch B instead of the travel adjustment bolt.
The Jazz GE has two primary electronic units - the ECM/PCM engine/powertrain control module, and the GCM gauge control module which supports much more than just the instruments, e.g. it stores the odometer and service interval counter, plus it manages the keys / security functions, and interprets button presses. These two modules are connected by the communication network CAN-bus, a differential pair of signal wires CAN-high & CAN-low.
The cruise control buttons are only connected to the GCM, it in turn then sends/receives CAN-bus commands to the ECM/PCM. The pedals and transmission switches & sensors are connected to the ECM/PCM.
The CC wiring for the dashboard side of the cable reel is:
Pin Colour Function
10 GRY Button illumination +ve feed
9 BLK Button illumination ground >> to ground point G501
1 ORN Set/Cancel/Resume/Horn +ve switch feed
2 BLK CC main switch ground >> to ground point G501
15 PNK CC main switch >> to GCM pin 22
13 RED Set/Decel >> to GCM pin 20
14 BLU Resume/Accel >> to GCM pin 19
- - Cancel = both Set+Resume pressed
The GCM gauge control module is connected to the ECM/PCM on all cars:
30 WHT CAN-high >> A3
29 RED CAN-low >> A4
The wiring for the brake pedal switch is:
Pole Pin Colour Function
1 1 WHT Permanent +ve battery via fuse #24 15amp
1 2 LT_GRN to ECM pin A42 BKSW
2 3 YEL Ignition +ve battery via fuse #12 10amp
2 4 BRN to ECM pin A41 BKSWNC
The wiring for (M/T only) clutch switch B is:
Pin Colour Function
1 WHT ECM/PCM control signal to A43
2 BLK To ground point G401
For (A/T only) the shift lever position is reported by:
6 BLU/YEL ECM/PCM B29 >> ground when in D or S
1 BLK Ground
The vehicle speed sensor is:
1 YEL/RED VCC1 5v
2 BLK/WHT Signal to ECM/PCM B38
3 GRN/WHT Ground
The complete wiring for the CC related ECM/PCM connections are:
Pin Colour Function
A3 WHT CAN-high
A4 RED CAN-low
A41 BRN BKSWNC
A42 LT-GRN BKSW
A43 WHT Clutch switch B (for M/T) CRMT-CLS
B29 BLU/YEL Transmission range switch (for A/T) ATP-FWD
B38 BLK/WHT Output shaft (countershaft) speed sensor
C3 YEL Throttle actuator ECTSM-
C4 YEL/RED Throttle actuator ECTSM+
C12 BLU Throttle sensor VCC3
C20 RED/BLK Throttle sensor THLA
C21 RED Throttle sensor THLB
C43 GRN Throttle sensor SG3
ECM/PCM connectors A, B & C are 49 pin although not every pin is used.
You can test the CC button functions and pedal responses in Honda HDS by monitoring the PGM-FI data list.
You can test the gauge control unit to see if the two cruise control indicators illuminate by performing the gauge test function in HDS or:
- Hold down the Select/Reset button
- Turn light switch on
- Turn ignition switch to ON(II)
- Turn lights off-on-off
- Release Select/Reset then press it 3 times
- Use Select/Reset or Odo/Trip to trigger tests.
- Switch off ignition to exit.
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Wow, very impressive. This is useful to check if my Jazz is set up for cruise control.
Thank you!
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I'm taking my chances and pull this older thread up. There are some good information about retrofitting cc.
So, there sure is a lot of discussion over the internet about this retrofit. But there really isn't any decent DIY for this. Is it because it's impossible or is it just too big job to do?
There is also a very good post of retrofitting the steering wheel audio controls: http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-generation-ge8-specific-diy-repair-maintenance-sub-forum/61277-diy-steering-wheel-audio-controls.html (http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-generation-ge8-specific-diy-repair-maintenance-sub-forum/61277-diy-steering-wheel-audio-controls.html)
So for me the situation is that I have 2011 Jazz with audio and board computer controls on steering wheel. I've ebayed myself leather steering wheel (from 3000km driven) Jazz with audio, board computer and cruise control buttons. I've also done the gauge test and CRUISE is illuminated on dash.
So what's next? How to check if I have the correct brake switch? What else there should be?
Let's find this out together!
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Sorry to disagree with Culzean as I have written in my post experienced on two separate occasions braking when going down hill in cruise control. BUT ONLY AT 70 mph. I am certain the brakes are being applied as on other lesser slopes in lower speeds in cruise control, engine braking is not enough to stop run away and requires me to apply the brakes.
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So what's next? How to check if I have the correct brake switch? What else there should be?
It should have the number of wires and colours as listed, although it might be difficult to see, there could be a part number visible. I believe the cruise control needs the two separate signals (low > high & high > low) so it can eliminate the possibility of wiring or switch failure; a standard car just needs to illuminate the brake lights. It's probably the same reason for the second clutch switch.
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TG
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TG confirms that standard CC has no connections to enable it to operate brakes. Adaptive cruise control may well be able to use brakes, but ACC has a radar distance sensor to detect the vehicle in front. Any autonomous braking would also have to operate brake lights.
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TG confirms that standard CC has no connections to enable it to operate brakes.
Not entirely sure I've said that - although there are no obvious extra electronic brake controls on CC cars vs. standard cars. The vehicle stability control (ESC/ESP/DSC) technology might be used to retard the vehicle and limit it's speed.
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TG
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So what's next? How to check if I have the correct brake switch? What else there should be?
It should have the number of wires and colours as listed, although it might be difficult to see, there could be a part number visible. I believe the cruise control needs the two separate signals (low > high & high > low) so it can eliminate the possibility of wiring or switch failure; a standard car just needs to illuminate the brake lights. It's probably the same reason for the second clutch switch.
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TG
Okey, I'll try to check that. Even though it might be a hard job, do I need to rip of some carpets or so? Any image would help a lot! ;D
Do someone think that there is some differences between usa/europe/japan jazz/fit models?
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My apologies tot the late reply. I've only one switch on the clutch pedal. So it seems like retro fitting the OEM cruise is not possible in a plug and play mode.
And since a airbag recall is needed, I'm finally going to upgrade tot a leather steering wheel. I'm going to change al the controle over and delete the cruise buttons.
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Dear JazzLeon,
I wanted to write that, since you have a clutch switch, you should be ok. The CC wiring posted by TG specifies only one cable going to the GCM, the 1 WHT ECM/PCM control signal to A43.
Did you ever conduct the test TG mentioned to activate the CC indicator lights in the dash?
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and yes!!!!!! installing cruise control IS possible!
i just installed with some wiring late night and i can confirm that is working like sweet!!
what i bought
*steering wheel with cc buttons
*clutch switch b as the manual describes it
*brake switch with 4 contacts
* new steering spiral clock spring wiring from eBay for less than 15 euros
mods that needed
3 wires from the steering spiral clock to the instrument dashboard
2 wires from the pedal switches to the ECU
the pins that i used came from an old pc from my basement!
and of course, no activation was needed to the ECU
that's all!!!! feel free to ask everything!!!
Στάλθηκε από το MAR-LX1A μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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Well done!!
I've been thinking about possibly doing this for sometime but haven't found anyone who has been successful.
With the help of the pin connections described in TG's post on Page 1, I think I can work out the extra two wires for the brake switch and the clutch switch. Still a little bit unsure about the three wires to the instrument connector from the steering spiral clock. Also why is a new one required - could you not use the existing one?
Any extra advice or tips would be gratefully received. Do you have a link to eBay for the steering spiral clock wiring?
Many thanks
Ian
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about the 3 wires to the instrument, go for it without fear....just, measure 3, act 1
new clock spring it's a must since some pins_wires are missing
https://www.ebay.com/itm/77900TA0H12-Spiral-Clock-Spring-For-Honda-Accord-2008-12-Jazz-2009-12-/274876233775?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
have in mind that although it is compatible as it is described, the yellow sockets for the airbag, are a little difficult to connect them....but there is always a way to do it
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Thanks for the reply.
Re the clock spring I now understand.
Many thanks
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Hi all, sorry to resurrect an old thread. I am going to try and enable the CC on my 2013 Jazz CVT with stock audio controls on the steering wheel.
Looks like the pinout might be different, compared to the previous post.
If somebody already did this, can you please specify where is the best place/s to attach the extra wires coming from the new CC buttons, and extra Brake switch contacts? Where are the PCM and GCM modules situated.
If anyone is interested, I will post regular updates on the progress.
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I never went ahead and did this. Struggled to find a good condition second hand steering wheel as our car doesn't have the cruise control buttons built in.
I did though find this wiring diagram (well one page of it). May be of some use.
Hope you are able to get it sorted.
https://portal-diagnostov.com/en/2020/04/07/cruise-control-honda-fit-2012-system-wiring-diagrams/
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As someone who has adaptive cruise control its maybe not my place to point out negatives. But I will :P
20 years ago I had a car with basic CC. I was not able to use it as often as I expected. Its best suited to long stretches of straight road with little other traffic. Not always easy to find in some locations.
The advantages of maintaining a constant speed without having to press a pedal can become a a liability if the car ploughs on at the same speed regardless of other vehicles. Adaptive cruise control is much better in this respect, detecting other vehicles and adapting speeds to suit , but even ACC has its limitations in moderate to heavy traffic. You still have to supervise that is reacting correctly to the movements of other vehicles and the heavier the traffic the more often you have to intervene. There comes a point where its less work and safer to switch it off. With CC it can be more a case of finding those times when it can safely be switched on.
Unless you have had CC on a previous car and really miss it , or really enjoy carrying out such modifications and have the skill to overcome any problems , or know for sure you will regularly drive long distances on quiet roads I'd think twice about doing it.
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Previously considered retrofitting CC to our VW Mk4 Golf (which I have been told is almost a plug & play affair) but never got around to it.
Used the car for a 200 mile round trip two weeks ago, mainly M3, and realised that because of the volume of traffic combined with the many variable speed limits at that time of day (Saturday morning down & back up at lunchtime) that basic CC would have been more trouble than it was worth for that journey.
Alternatively, one of my sons has just bought an all-singing-all-dancing Volvo V90 with adaptive CC combined with collision avoidance sensors and lane following steering which he used to travel down to the coast overnight. Because of the light traffic he said he could almost recline the seat and relax like a meerkat and let the car do the driving! All that was needed was to gently rest one hand on the steering wheel without the need for any input regarding steering direction.
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I'd like cruise control. Very useful and one of the standard fit items I look forward to when I upgrade to a MK3 at some point in the future.
Never used active cruise control, don't think I would like it tbh.
I agree with Lordv, cruise is for empty straight roads. Back when I was doing 50k a year in my company cars, cruise was a god send. These days, at around 15k and not many long journeys, I don't really miss it. Be nice to have though.
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Thanks for all the replies! @ianhj your CC diagram is much nicer than what I have!
I agree non-adaptive CC could be more of a burden, but I like enabling features that are "almost there" ;D
And I had to remove the steering wheel anyway- to put a new skin(surface was wearing out. Rather pleased with the new look now btw). Alas the clock spring needs to be changed, so waiting on Aliexpress for next few months. Ask anything, will update you once something happens.
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I tried to do this on my civic some years ago, got the cruise control light on the dash to show but that was it. Turns out had a load of wiring missing from the clutch / brake pedal and also didn’t have the control programmed into my ECU so no go… kept the steering wheel though as it looked nicer
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ok, a bit of a update: I'm taking it slow, since I'm trying to disturb the stock wiring/look as little as possible. Even got the wire colours according to the diagram. What I've done so far:
Installed the CC buttons on the steering wheel, the latching switch(Cruise Main) is double pole, double throw- i.e. has two contacts, both with normally open and normally closed, originally bridged. I separated them, so I can use the Cancel button as my previous Info button, when CC is not in use.
Wired the 3 extra wires to the back of the instrument panel, by putting them in a heat shrink sleeve, and cable-tying them to the existing harness- trying to put them inside the harness will be a major PITA. Now the Cruise Main light comes on when the latching button is pressed, but of course one last pitfall:
How to run a wire from the brake pedal to the PCM/ECU module behind the battery? Spent a whole day, and gave up(for now) trying to find a way to go through the firewall. Looks like both rubber boots on left and right are in a "almost" inaccessible places.
If anyone still interested, will make a thorough step-by-step, but in the meanwhile any suggestions about the least painful way of running a single [brown] wire from the pedal to the battery would be appreciated.
Cheers.
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Hello fellow Jazz drivers. I have been reading this topic for some time and I want to thank everyone who contributed to it. With help from this topic and other courses the retrofit of OEM Cruise-Control to my Jazz was successful :) Below a short report of the work done, I hope this will be off help to others . . .
My Jazz :
2011 Jazz 1.4 ivtec , stock steering wheel control for radio and info-panel. Panel self test shows cruise control indicator lights.
Items needed to change or added:
- Steering wheel with cruise control buttons (found one one ebay)
- Cable reel (stock has not enough pins, founds one from a crashed Jazz Hybrid)
- 2 pole Brake-light Switch (stock had a single pole)
- Extra clutch switch
- Wiring sets on amazon are perfect for the job
Added wiring:
Cable Reel (dashboard side):
Pin Color Function
13 RED Set/Decel >> to GCM pin 20
14 BLU Resume/Accel >> to GCM pin 19
15 PNK CC main switch >> to GCM pin 22
Instrumentpanel:
Pin Color Function
19 BLU Resume/Accel
20 RED Set/Decel
22 PNK CC main switch
Brake Switch:
Pole Pin Colour Function
2 3 YEL Ignition +ve battery via fuse #12 10amp
2 4 BRN to ECM pin A41 BKSWNC
Clutch Switch B:
Pin Color Function
1 WHT ECM/PCM control signal to A43
2 BLK To ground point G401
Engine Control Module Connector A (white):
Pin Color Function
41 BRN Brake switch pole 2
43 WHT Clutch switch B
Wiring scheme for cruise-control system :
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436139-126-Cruise-Control.png)
ECM connector :
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436141-244-ECM%20A%20.jpg)
Clutch-switch :
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436137-172-Clutch%20B.jpg)
New brakeswitch & clutch switch:
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436091-1-Brake%20Clutch%20SW.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436093-112-Brake%20SW.jpg)
Cable reel stock vs new:
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436111-101-Cable%20Reel.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436107-203-Cable%20Reel%20Stock%20%281%29.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436103-188-Cable%20Reel%20New%20%281%29.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436105-103-Cable%20Reel%20New%20%282%29.jpg)
General info:
On YouTube there are many video on how to remove the battery, airfilterbox, covers, steering wheel and instrument-panel and how to add or remove pins from existing connectors so I will not post this info here. I found this link very helpful : https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/index.html?ecu_connectors.htm (https://www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/index.html?ecu_connectors.htm)
I forgot to make pictures while installing the brake and clutch switch so the drawings and schemes will have to do
Wiring between cable-reel and instrument-panel:
Cable-reel dashboardside:
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436101-155-Cable%20Reel%20Connector%20BD%20Side%20%284%29.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436095-43-Cable%20Reel%20Connector%20BD%20Side%20%281%29.jpg)
(the green wire is for the phone buttons (added a android radio also)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436097-21-Cable%20Reel%20Connector%20BD%20Side%20%282%29.jpg)
Instrument-panel connector:
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436129-45-Instrument%20connector%20%282%29.jpg)
Engine bay wiring:
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436119-104-Engine1.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436121-176-Engine2.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436123-66-Engine3.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436125-84-Engine4.jpg)
ECM connector A (white)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436115-113-ECM1.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436117-99-ECM2.jpg)
When all this was done it worked! No need to program with HDS.
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436133-146-Test2.jpg)
(https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/0/2/8/4/a17436113-114-Done.jpg)
Hope this is off help to other Jazz/Fit drivers :)
Kind regards from the Netherlands,
Bart
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That looks very professional, Bart! Thanks for posting it and welcome on this forum. Enjoy your Jazz!
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Welcome to the forum Bart. What a fantastic write up. :D I'm sure that will be very useful if anyone is considering the job.
If you do any more jobs to you car, feel free to add detailed write ups like the above to the forum. Be a great resource for folk.
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@Bart83 very nicely done, wish you did it before I started last year(and still haven't finished)!
My main battle was to run the wire from the brake pedal to the ECM A41 pin. I did it last weekend, had to go through the passenger door harness, and under the dash board. Mine is a right-hand side steering wheel, so the harness looks slightly different to yours.
Also mine is a CVT transmission, and probably need to do something in addition, because it still doesn't work :(
AFAIK the clutch pedal signal in my case will be a GND signal to pin B29 of the ECM!? If I measure the pin(with the battery disconnected) I get around 10-15 Ohms to GND in D and S positions, and infinity in P, R, and N positions. If I ring the wire from the pedal to A41 I read around 1 kOhm to GND(reading from the ECM), and infinity when brake pressed. So this wire supplies +12 V to A41 when brake released.
I described in previous post my wiring from the new steering wheel buttons to the GCM module.
When Cruise Main is switched on, the light comes on. But if I drive over 60 kph and try to engage CC(pressing the Set/Decel button) nothing happens.
Has anyone ever had a firmware with CC disabled, or am I forgetting something, or my wiring is bad?
Will listen to any suggestions, and update when/if I get it right.
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Ok, can anyone confirm this: Do I need to supply gnd to pin A43 of ECM? I don't have a clutch, and according to all info so far, I shouldn't!
But at the same time, all reported successful fitments so far have been on manual models.
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have you solved? i had the same problem doing on a DX 1.4L AT
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have you solved? i had the same problem doing on a DX 1.4L AT
No luck yet. I connected a permanent gnd wire to ecm pin A43("clutch released" for manual models), but it did not change anything. Both inputs A43, and A41("brake released" +12V signal) have around 1.3 kOhm input resistance, and with both signals supplied(and "Cruise Main" light on) pressing "Set/Decel" while driving over 60 kph, "Cruise Contol" light does not come on.
When I get a chance, I will re-check my button wiring.
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I'd like cruise control. Very useful and one of the standard fit items I look forward to when I upgrade to a MK3 at some point in the future.
Never used active cruise control, don't think I would like it tbh.
I agree with Lordv, cruise is for empty straight roads. Back when I was doing 50k a year in my company cars, cruise was a god send. These days, at around 15k and not many long journeys, I don't really miss it. Be nice to have though.
If you get a car with good active radar cruise it’s amazing. I love standard CC and when my new work car came with it I ended up using it all the time. In traffic jams it’s a godsend as it just follows the car in front at a safe distance.
If you get a car with a good system you will love it too if you like standard CC
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Hello everyone!
I'm still quite new in the game, but really enjoyed this topic. Almost there trying it on my own and got all the main parts needed. Just wondering which connectors to use for the additional wiring (e.g. terminal pins for ECM/PCM, fuse box, cable reel or the new added switches...)
Thanks for your help!!
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Anyone any ideas?