Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: rspaczkowski on February 10, 2019, 01:30:13 AM
-
Hey,
We have bought a 17 plate Jazz EX in midnight pearl black for my wife. The car was 12k miles when purchased and was mint. I gave the car to a local Honda dealership for a service and a wash and presented my Mrs with the keys to her new lovely ride. Everybody was happy until we discovered how bad the paint on the Jazz is!
After a month and a half of her driving the Honda to work and back (30 miles a day, on a clean, decent B road), I found the bonnet littered with tiny white stone chip marks.
Before we bought the Jazz, she used to drive my Octavia on the same route every day for three months, and there was never any stone chip damage.
One day after we brought the Honda to an automatic car wash, I had noticed paint scratches on the boot door which were not there before. I had complained to the car wash staff, but they dismissed me, saying that there is no way their car wash could cause the damage. I had my Octavia washed there every week, and there were never any paint issues.
We decided to clean the vehicle ourselves from there on.
So, today I have used a soft car brush plus a low-pressure jet wash to clean the Jazz by hand. I did not use any force nor abrasives: just clean water and Karcher brand car shampoo.
The Jazz's paint now has circle shaped scratch marks all over, and on the offside front column edges, the paint thinned so much I can see the white primer layer.
I gave the same wash to my Skoda earlier that day, so I went back and examined its paint. It was immaculate.
I feel gutted, our almost new 17 plate Honda paint job looks worse than my 06 plate Octavia with over 120k miles on the clock.
I feel like Honda factory painted this car with kids crayons. I owned a few cars in my life, but the Jazz is the first one where I can wash off the paint! :(
Has anyone had this issue here? The car is still on warranty, is there a point asking my local dealership for a warranty re-spray?
-
Honda paint has a reputation for being "soft", but your's sounds extreme. If I do not spot and remove bird droppings from my 2006 they damage the paintwork. Stone chips on the bonnet are normally the result of following too close behind other vehicles and soft paint exacerbates the result. When you handwash do you use the two bucket method? Swirls on the paintwork are a sign of fine grit in the water or an extremely course sponge. I use a microfibre mitt.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Deluxe-Microfiber-Wash-Mitt/dp/B07145FF4Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1549789390&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=microfibre+mitt&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Deluxe-Microfiber-Wash-Mitt/dp/B07145FF4Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1549789390&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=microfibre+mitt&psc=1)
-
I can well understand you are gutted :(
I have a bit of trouble trouble understanding "circle shaped scratch marks". That doesn't sound like exposure to road chippings which is what the the bonnet sounded like.
If the car was pristine when you bought it and for six weeks after, the problem must have been a very unusual event (or events) during your ownership. However it might be that defective paintwork from new means that your car was not able to tolerate this event as it should have been.
I have not heard that Honda paintwork is known for being soft (and have not noticed it on the three jazzes we have owned....we haven't had Jocko's bird poo problem) but if that was the cause of your problem then these forums would be full of paintwork discussions.
I would definitely take it back to Honda and suggest that the paintwork is not withstanding stone chips as it should do.
Last thought...who did you buy this from? Was it a reputable (Honda?) dealer, or somewhere a bit dodgy? Might they have used some second hand car sales trick to conceal the damage when you bought it, and which has worn off in the six weeks? Have you taken it back to the place you bought it?
EDIT. Did the 12k Honda service include a full inspection....they usually do....did that mention any bodywork issues?
-
It doesn't sound right. I would take pictures and start discussions with the dealer asap. Do you know anything of the previous history of the car?
-
If I do not spot and remove bird droppings from my 2006 they damage the paintwork. Stone chips on the bonnet are normally the result of following too close behind other vehicles and soft paint exacerbates the result.
I always remove bird droppings as soon as I see them, either with a 'wet wipe' or washing up liquid and water and paper tissue ( i don't otherwise clean the cars ). I never follow other vehicles too closely - normally at least 50 metres back in daylight, and at night i stay further back ( not for the health of my paintwork but to keep headlights out of their mirrors - I just wish everyone would do it ).
I have had at least 2 windscreens ruined by stones from oncoming cars though, don't know how that works but after the car had passed there was a very loud crack from windscreen ( made my ears ring) and on inspection there was a crater in the screen --
The propensity to get stone chips can depend on shape of bonnet, if it is short and slopes steeply like Jazz it will get more chips than a flatter bonnet. I can remember when front of cars used to get peppered with chips and it was a full time job to keep them from going rusty, but the plastic bumper covers most of the front now and that does not rust. You can blame the 'pedestrian friendly' bonnet on the Jazz, its low front and slope means that pedestrians get 'scooped up' instead of knocked over and then run over ( compare it with the flat front of a 4x4 German staff car).
I don't know any paint that will resist a sharp piece of road granite hitting it at a combined speed of 100mph+ ( your speed plus the speed it flew off the wheel of vehicle in front), but with modern electro-zinc plated panels at least the rust does not spread under paint like it used to and bubble up.
https://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/car-care-blog/detailing/paint/
http://www.carwashmag.com/home/article/german-paint-finishes-how-are-they-different-and-is-it-important/50ccc58b06e22de4793695e9e28efd60.html
-
I've owned three Jazz (Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 (65 plate)) and haven't noticed any issues. To be fair I don't wash my cars all that often (the Mk3 hasn't been washed now for over a year, lol). Black is particularly bad at showing defects (https://www.best-auto-detailing-tips.com/car-paint-colors.html) though - it's the worst colour for that.
"And by going back, I mean to black. Ask anyone who has ever owned, or currently owns a black car and they will tell you of the frustration a black car represents. So for most people, I recommend you stay away from black despite what your emotions are screaming at you the next time you happen to see a very shiny black car.
* Among the most dramatic colors visually when detailed correctly.
* The hottest color; literally. Not only will the paint heat up to the temperature of the sun, but will cause the interior to heat up proportionately along with it.
* Black shows every nuance of paint flaws.
* Black car paint is the hardest color to keep clean.
* Will show dust from the moment you stop cleaning, until the moment you start cleaning once again!
* Black interiors hide actual dirt the best, but enhance the superficial dirt like dust, debris, and lint.
"
I have had at least 2 windscreens ruined by stones from oncoming cars though, don't know how that works but after the car had passed there was a very loud crack from windscreen ( made my ears ring) and on inspection there was a crater in the screen --
I had that on my Mk1 Sport, albeit the bonnet. There was an almighty 'crack' and when I checked a crater near the top of the bonnet about 3mm across.
-
I found the Jazz bonnet to be vulnerable to stone chips. The relatively low nose means that stones thrown up by other vehicles are more likely to hit the bonnet rather than the front grille. I remember being particularly annoyed by an oncoming van which drove through a pile of fine gravel just as I was approaching as I had no option but drive through a cloud of small stones. I also remember that my Mk 3 Jazz seemed to have even thinner paint than the Mk 2. Perhaps Honda's philosophy is that thinner paint = less weight = better mpg. My antidote is to protect the paint with a couple of layers of hard wax polish but maybe this is one reason for the popularity of silver / grey colours - the primer is less obvious when the paint chips off.
There always seems to be a lot more fine debris on the roads during the winter so the risk of driving into stones thrown up by other vehicles is increased. Do some councils still put grit in with the salt to give some extra grip? Keeping a decent distance behind anything in front helps reduce the risk of damage but it's difficult to protect against debris sent flying by either oncoming or overtaking vehicles.
-
The OP's problem is not normal stone chips or bird poo. He describes the current state as "now has circle shaped scratch marks all over, and on the offside front column edges, the paint thinned so much I can see the white primer layer."
That is why I suggested this car has a very unusual event in its history. If it happened before he bought it, the person selling did a very good job covering it up temporarily. If it happened after he bought it then maybe he has a car with defective paintwork and the basis for a claim against warranty.
-
It almost sounds like the car has had excessive use of T-Cut at some point in its life, this could explain the circular scratch marks and the paint through to the primer on the pillars.
Perhaps this was necessary after some kind of chemical rain (from a factory).
I suspect the seller was able to conceal this temporarily.
-
hi mate, just seen your post i also have a Jazz and are not happy with the paintwork, very easily stone chips slight bit of rust coming down each side of the front doors, i don't think the paint is thick enough that they use.
I've been to the garage before to remove a slight scratch and they rubbed the paint work all off, I've got to go down again this week with the rust on the doors issue. I am not happy with this, is there anything we can do? Can this be reported trade standards/watchdog etc? I had a mate who has a Mercedes and his paintwork bubbled like mine around the wheel arches and they took it in and measured it with some machine and found that the paint wasn't thick enough and they had to repaint all four wheel arches ans the paint has to be a certain thickness.
I haven't had my car 12 months and its a 67 plate, have you gone any further with your motor?
Please reply as im a bit peed off with this.
-
It will be interesting to hear how the OP gets on with the dealer. Even allowing for Honda's notoriously soft paint, it seems a bit odd to be as bad as this after not many miles.
VW/Audi group have issues but they all have excellent paint as will the Skoda.
-
the last time iwent to the garage to have touch up were the scratch was the chap who did it said it was the paint water based and very thinly put on i never had a car as bad for stone chips and never had a car you can rub the paint off had my vw years and no were as bad this jazz they should respray the newer model any more out there with poor paint work
-
Do Honda have a clearcoat over the colour? When buying a touch up for our jazz you just get the colour paint, ours is polished metal.
We also have a VW polo in white, and I do know this has a clearcoat over. When purchasing a touch up you get two tins one of the colour and the other clearcoat.
Just to repeat what I have posted before, the paintwork and bodywork in general of the VW is far better than the jazz
-
It will be interesting to hear how the OP gets on with the dealer.
We won't hear. The OP has not visited the forum since the day he posted, so probably hasn't seen any replies.
-
Just to repeat what I have posted before, the paintwork and bodywork in general of the VW is far better than the jazz
IMHO I would rather have thinner paint on a trouble-free reliable car than just thicker paint on a typical German problematic one, three members of my family have had terrible experiences with Skoda in the last couple of years, one dumped their Fabia and went back to Toyota, one dumped their 18 month old Octavia and is now happily driving a Suzuki Grand Vitara and the other is looking for a Honda Civic estate to replace his troublesome ( regularly costs him money ) Octavia estate - and it is / was generally accepted that Skoda are the best built of the VW group.
Modern cars have zinc coated body panels so the paint is just for decoration really, and you see plenty of old Jazzes and Honda in general still driving around quite happily, their powertain is bulletproof ( oh did I mention my Bro-in-law had the gearbox on his Golf fall apart inside a few years ago, he has not gone near VW since after that expensive episode ). My brother also worked with a woman who was proudly driving her brand new golf up the M6 and the rear suspension collapsed in a most disconcerting fashion.
I can make them do a finger in mouth puking gesture just by saying 'German engineering' LOL
-
I agree with that. Soft paint on a Japanese car rather than mediocre German reliability for me as well.
-
yer you go pay all that money you wont agood car and good paint work unelss your not fussy
-
hi you would rather have paint that rubs off and stone chips so easy you not to fussy about your motors appearance by the sound of it you should get both for the price pal
-
hi you would rather have soft paint and rust coming through stone chips easy but runs ok you not to fussy about your cars appearance by the sound of it pal
-
My car is 13 years old and 112,000 miles with its soft paint.
-
hi you would rather have soft paint and rust coming through stone chips easy but runs ok you not to fussy about your cars appearance by the sound of it pal
You don't get both with a VW either, and those are not exactly cheap, never really had any problems with paint on any of the Honda cars I have had, and never had to spend any money on repairs - just normal consumables despite large mileages. I am not exactly fussy about polishing my cars, had the DiamondBrite treatment done and the rain washes and polishes them for me and i spent nothing on polish and wax, just use AutoGlym super resin polish on the plastic headlight covers every month or so to stop them yellowing ( great for PVC window frames as well). After my family and friends experiences ( and expenses) with VAG cars I will stick to Japanese and risk the thin paint.
As I said paint is only for decoration on modern cars as the panels are all Zintec electro-zinc plated.
-
Talking of VW's woes, today I saw a Y reg Golf. Whatever VW do now, they certainly knew how to build them back in the early 80's. Especially Polos. There are a ton of old Polos still on the road. I don't know if it was the fact that Golfs were young men's cars - and got thrashed - whereas Polos were old men's cars - and survived. A bit like the early Jazz.
-
We have the jazz And a polo, the jazz mainly for Mrs. LJ. Our present jazz is the Mk2 with cvt, which is excellent.
We previously had two Mk1s, both a bit troublesome.
The VW is mine, although this new polo with 1.2 TSI engine is terrific the engine is a gem pulling strongly from 1500 rpm all the way to 3500 rpm and is better on fuel than the jazz, In fact Mrs. LJ has started to use it now!!
My enthusiasm for VW started 52 years ago and I have owned 14 alltogether over this time with no major problems.
In fact the very first one gave the most trouble, the engine dropped a valve, which was a common occurance on the air cooled engines. I was otherwise very impressed with the build quality and stayed with VW after all.
I ran the VW transporter for my job in the heating trade and had really trouble free service, they stand up to all sorts of use and abuse. I have lost count of the number of times other lads phoned to say they cannt get to the job because either their vans either will not start or have broken down! I do not think a Honda vehicle of that type ( if they made one ) would stand up to the type of use our VWs had
Nice reving engines they have but the VW is the better all round product, in my humble opinion based on the above.
-
We have the jazz And a polo, the jazz mainly for Mrs. LJ. Our present jazz is the Mk2 with cvt, which is excellent.
We previously had two Mk1s, both a bit troublesome.
The VW is mine, although this new polo with 1.2 TSI engine is terrific the engine is a gem pulling strongly from 1500 rpm all the way to 3500 rpm and is better on fuel than the jazz, In fact Mrs. LJ has started to use it now!!
My enthusiasm for VW started 52 years ago and I have owned 14 alltogether over this time with no major problems.
In fact the very first one gave the most trouble, the engine dropped a valve, which was a common occurance on the air cooled engines. I was otherwise very impressed with the build quality and stayed with VW after all.
I ran the VW transporter for my job in the heating trade and had really trouble free service, they stand up to all sorts of use and abuse. I have lost count of the number of times other lads phoned to say they cannt get to the job because either their vans either will not start or have broken down! I do not think a Honda vehicle of that type ( if they made one ) would stand up to the type of use our VWs had
Nice reving engines they have but the VW is the better all round product, in my humble opinion based on the above.
The best engine I have driven for a long time is the 1.4 boosterjet engine in my brothers Suzuki Vitara, great torque from just above tickover to about 4500 revs, but above that the engine still great ( not there is normally much reason to go above that though ). I have a Civic 1.8 I-vtec and that is also a peach. IMHO VW are living on past reputation, German cars in general no longer come out well in reliability and overall running cost stats.
-
Contact Honda Customer Service on info.UK.car@honda-eu.com