Is a 2007-09 CVT the right motor for a limited budget?

[mish]

Hello folks,

I am a pensioner and am going to trade-in my 201k miles  automatic 15 year old Ford Fusion for a Jazz which should be a little easier to get my large frame out of.

I occasionally tow a small junk trailer which I am told is OK for a CVT.  I need an auto for the missus, but previously had a VW DSG auto which she could not get the hang of; you know, feathering the pedal to just ease it to  the next gear etc. The old Ford slushbox is more her line. I am advised the CVT will suit her hesitant driving style and will gladly pick-up speed to match her light throttle foot. Good on fuel too.

I am short of cash and can add maybe 4K to the old Ford for a deal. 'Experts' have advised that I go for an early 09 plate if I can  (not 59 plate), as it will have the last of the first generation CVT's and not the iShift which is too similar to the VW DSG. A 2007 – 2009   model anyway. I am something of an engineer/hydraulics mechanic, so can give it a competent look over. But I would prefer to go to an RAC/AA mechanical franchised independent dealer and pay the 190 quid for the valuable certificate and then buy the allied warranty.

I expect a good service history, and let's face it, this is not a rep's company car, its mostly sold to private buyers who cherish their pride and joy and don't skimp on servicing.

I am worried about the life of the CVT, but a stamped service book with transmission oil changes marked should be reassuring. I am not wary of a high miler. My Ford was bought 3 years ago @ 155k with only one private owner and it still goes strongly. I just changed the brake fluid and all has been well.

So what do you experts think – especially about an aftermarket warranty that will maybe take-on any transmission troubles on a 10 year old car?

All comments will be gratefully received, thanks.
m

[John Ratsey]

You'll need to review your date range: The i-Shift Jazzes arrived in late 2008 https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/honda/honda-jazz-14-es-i-shift-2008-review/ although sale of the remaining Mk. 1 stock probably continued into early 2009.

The CVT gearbox is quite durable. One forum member took a hybrid Jazz (which has a CVT box) past 1/4 million miles before an oil leak killed it. However, the main potential problem is the CVT judder which is caused by accumulated crud in the system. This took some years to show up as a problem and in around 2013 Honda reduced the recommended CVT fluid change interval for the Mk 2 Jazzes from 4 years/50k miles to 2 years/25k miles (I don't think there was any change in the recommendation for the Mk 1 Jazz). Fortunately the judder isn't a show-stopper as people have figured out techniques for fixing it (search the forum for CVT judder).

[Rory]

So what do you experts think – especially about an aftermarket warranty that will maybe take-on any transmission troubles on a 10 year old car?

If you can get a warranty with reasonable coverage at that age then its payout will be limited to the value of the car so my thinking would be that pretty well any transmission problem is going to trigger that.  That may be what you want, but it's something to be aware of.

I'm not up to speed with prices but it's always been said that you shouldn't overpay for used Jazz - without looking up current prices I'd have thought your £4K+ would get a newer one than you're thinking of.  Even the CVT may not add much to cost - everyone thinks small autos are in demand but we tried to sell a Corsa auto a few years ago and had no interest at all.

[springswood]

My first thought was the same as Rory and a quick look on autotrader shows a 2012 CVT's in your budget.

 

[Rory]

..and as John Ratsey says above, the first couple of yrs of the mk 2 (2009 to sometime in 2011) used the iShift, so to get a mk2 with CVT you need to go later than that.

[VicW]

The Mk2 update in early 2011 reintroduced the CVT and also introduced the torque converter clutch.
There were other minor change as well, I believe the suspension is a bit softer.
The face lift model can be recognised by looking for the rear reflectors. They are positioned low down on the rear bodywork at the outer edges of the rear bumper.

Vic.

[chrisv]

Hi,
Your main problem is that the cvt is not considered by Honda to be suitable for towing (as I found out 😞) my 2011 cvt has the torque convertor, it is smooth and very pleasant to drive

[mish]

Thank you all for your kind replies.

On towing, I am told that Honda varies its recommendation according to market. I have been told that a small junk trailer will be OK, the greater worry apparently is small caravans, car and plant trailers etc. But its not a big issue for me. My trailing days are over.

Interesting that there are better spec examples out there for my budget. Only problem is that they seem well over the 150 mile range from me. I would prefer a supplier nearer home so I can go and kick their shins if I am sold a pup.

Thanks also for the update on the later version of the CVT, I am all for a torque converter to soften the blow as it were. (Did I say the missus drives too?)

I will start to look in earnest later next week.

Your combined help has been most welcome, thank you.

[chrisv]

Hi,
There were lots of confusing answers to the question of towing with a cvt, I emailed Honda for a definitive answer and they came back with a definite No it is not rated for towing, in the case of an accident it could give the insurance company some wriggle room. I dont know why it can't tow, the standard 1.4 jazz manual is OK and the way mine pulls and drives I'm sure it would be OK, perhaps it's the torque convertor?
Chris

[springswood]

In the spirit of adding more information (or is that confusion) to this discussion I found this site https://www.towingcapacity.co.uk/car-make-model/honda/honda-jazz/ Though obviously not as authoritative as the words of Honda direct.

Anyway, they say 450kg unbraked and 1000kg braked for all models of Jazz. Also that towing weights should be on the V5. I've a dim recollection the problem could be the torque converter overheating. If so a small trailer and short trips would be less of a worry than, say, towing a caravan at the weight limit across Spain in 40 centigrade.

[mish]

Thanks for those figures. I have a very light Austrian made Pongratz trailer I bought in Bosnia when I returned to the UK a while ago. (It even has a 'plate' certificate). Its 700kg gross unbraked, but I would guess it rarely gets to 350kg with the sort of stuff I drag around to the dump or clearing family garages etc. When I moved last year it made several 300 mile round trips without straining or overheating the TC/slushbox of my Ford Fusion. I am obviously cautious with its use but within the next 2 months its use will be much reduced as I finish 'working' on our new home.

Oh yes, I have found some high mileage samples with the latest generation CVT transmission, thanks for the advice chaps. Of course, the two best ones are the wrong colour for SWMBO ! 

[olduser1]

Try Autotrader, choose your spec and colour then save , the website will email you hits when they appear.
As with all used vehicles recommended to have HPI Experian check before doing a deal