Author Topic: Change your battery  (Read 84997 times)

guest1428

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Change your battery
« on: June 05, 2010, 05:25:26 AM »
Please remember that all How To guides are followed at your own risk. Neither Clubjazz, the administrators/moderators or the posting member accept any liability from following these guides.

Changing the battery on a Jazz is not as strightforward as you might think. Its not the actual process of changing the battery which is the problem its the electronics on the car that get affected by the lack of power whilst you change it. If you are not happy to take the risk of causing a fault with your power steering (apparently this can happen...) give it to a dealer to do it for you instead.

Problems that can be caused by changing your battery:
- Erratic or high engine idle
- Bad fuel economy
- Heavy power steering
- Windows dont open completely
- Loose your radio presets
- Lock out your radio if it is key coded
- Have to reset your clock

I will try to help you avoid some of these problems with this guide.

Do not be tempted to use a battery operated radio key code saver as Haynes mentions this might deploy the air bags...

   PREP FOR CHANGING THE BATTERY
Leave one door open: In case the central locking triggers when you remove the battery. Turn off interior light and keep the key with you at all times.
Turn off the engine and any devices draining battery power (phone chargers, sat nav etc.)
   
   REMOVING THE OLD BATTERY
Avoid touching the body of the car with tools whilst they are in contact with the battery terminals
Disconnect Negative: Loosen the nut and remove the (-) clamp. Isolate the clamp in a rag.
Unscrew both top nuts: Loosen both of the top nuts on the battery clamp. You only have to do it enough to free the clamp (don’t have to remove the nut completely).
Remove clamp: Remove the clamp from the vehicle (with nuts still attached).
Remove Positive: Lift the plastic flap, loosen the nut and remove the (+) clamp. Isolate the clamp in a rag.
Remove Plastic Box: Slide off the plastic box around the battery
Remove the Battery: Remove the battery from the vehicle
   
   FITTING THE NEW BATTERY
Avoid touching the body of the car with tools whilst they are in contact with the battery terminals
Clean Tray and  Plastic Box: Wipe with Tissue should be fine.
Fit Battery: Insert the new battery on to the vehicle
Fit the plastic tray: Refit the plastic tray
Fit Positive: Fit (+) clamp and tighten nut
Refit Clamp: Refit battery retaining clamp and tighten both nuts
Fit Negative: Fit (-) clamp and tighten nut
   
   AFTER CHANGING THE BATTERY
Retrain the ECM !!Important!!
1.   Start the engine and run it at 3000 rpm until engine warm.
2.   Run Engine idle for 5min with all loads turned off.
3.   Lastly drive the car normally for at least 5min.

Im not sure what happens if you dont train the ECM properly, but Haynes states that the training sets the idle speed. Posts on the net suggest high revs at idle and bad fuel economy can result from not following the above procedure. If you take it to Honda to change the battery they get a computer to retrain the ECM, whether this has any real benfit over doing it yourself I dont know.

Reset electric windows: Fully open the window and keep key pressed a few secs.
- Close the window and keep key pressed a few secs. Do this for all windows. This apparent resets the cars perseption of what constitutes an open and closed window for the one click open/close feature.
Clock: Reset the clock
Radio: Reset the channels on the radio

If a fault is reported on your dashboard after changing the battery it is probably the steering. See Chapter 10 Section 9 of Haynes. Sometimes the fault can clear just by driving, if not its fiddly to fix.

If your radio gets locked out because it is key coded you will have to take it to a dealer to unlock it.

Notes:
I have carried out this procedure myself and the information above is a mix of info from the Haynes manual, my own experience and things picked up from the net.

The Jazz Haynes manual can be obatained here: http://www.haynes.co.uk
NB: for some weird reason neither Fit or Jazz manuals show up on Haynes.com, so use the co.uk site.

Note: Battery change related sections in Haynes = 5A /2, REF /7 and 10 /19


culzean

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2010, 02:16:35 PM »
If it reassures anyone wanting to change their own battery I have changed the battery on quite a few cars including two GD Jazzes by the following method - 

Just unbolt the old battery terminals* (see note* below), remove old battery and bolt in the new one.

I have never had a problem other than the radio losing its presets and have never knowingly 're-trained' the ECM or ECU. The only precaution I have taken is to leave a couple of doors open in case the doors lock when the power goes off.  The ECU (ECM) on any modern car is designed to 'tune itself in' on a continuous basis as you drive to match the style of your driving and get maximum fuel economy. The engine may run differently for a few miles but will soon be back on song, I have never seen my fuel consumption suffer too much either, in fact at the moment I am getting about 58mpg.

Note * (disconnect negative terminal first - the only reason for this is that if you have one end of the spanner in contact with the positive terminal and you touch any bodywork or engine parts with the other end there will be an almighty bang).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1428

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2010, 04:05:41 PM »
I took my Honda in to the dealer a few weeks back and they had to retrain the ECM as they disconnected the battery as part of the work they did. Driving home the car felt very different than before handing it in to them. The next day I changed the battery myself and retrained it according to the Haynes procedure, it immediatly drove the same as before I handed it in to them. Even two weeks later it never returned to feeling the same as when I picked it up from the dealer.

It is mentioned on the net that the ECM can retrain itself over the course of a number of days, but from the problems people have reported and what Haynes says it does seem that you can retrain your ECM incorrectly and it wont fix itself eventually just by driving it more.

If you believe Honda nobody but them can retrain an ECM after a battery change. My car is currently in with the dealer for a throttle problem and they are claiming that incorrect ECM training after a battery change caused it.

I guess I didnt make it clear, but the 3 step retraining procedure in my first post is actually copied straight out of the Haynes Honda Jazz manual and Im not just making that up myself. I think that either the idea that you have to retrain it yourself (as implied by Haynes) or the Honda claim are true. Maybe other cars ECMs can be retrained in such a casual way by just driving them, but it doesnt appear so for the Jazz. You could get lucky and just retrain it through random driving, but who wants to take that chance?

As for 58mpg being good, is that urban? I was getting about 52mpg on my urban 12mile run in to central London for the last few years, after battery change and retraining (the Haynes way) I got 57.

Bonzo

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2010, 08:18:43 PM »
What is wrong with connecting a battery charger to the terminals, prior to removing them, you then have a power source, have used this method on Citroen and Toyota cars, with no problems.

JazzyB

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2010, 10:38:09 PM »
Whilst I have had no problems changing car batteries on various cars, can those who have had to change their battery on a Jazz let us all know what their experience has been?

guest1428

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2010, 12:39:55 PM »
What is wrong with connecting a battery charger to the terminals, prior to removing them, you then have a power source, have used this method on Citroen and Toyota cars, with no problems.

I did a quick net search and it seems (in theory) if you use a trickle charger you should be OK, but dont use a fast charger. Removing the battery whilst keeping a running charger connected at the same time could be a bit fiddly though.

In practice because Haynes claims just using a battery operated radio key code saver may deploy the air bags, I dont know if I would want to risk it.

culzean

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2010, 08:12:41 PM »
Remember that the voltage on a normal battery charger can be anything up to 18 volts and is not true DC (it is only unidirectional un-smoothed AC) which means the voltage rises and falls like an AC sine wave, but unlike true AC it never goes negative.  This could cause no end of damage to your cars electrics, and is the reason you should never fast charge a battery while it is still connected to your vehicle.

With a trickle charger the voltage will be around 13 volts, not nearly so bad, so may be worth a try.

It is also wise to remember when reading Haynes manuals that a lot of their information seems to be generic, and may not be entirely true for a specific vehicle down to the last technical detail.

All I can say is that I have changed many car batteries, including two Jazz GD 1.4, have never 're-trained' the ECU and never had a minutes problem afterwards.

Remember when Honda they say that no-one but a dealer can re-train the ECU that Honda are the same people that tell you that the tappets on a GD need adjusting every 25K (at about £350 a time!!!both our GD Jazzes have done 3x that mileage without tappet adjustment), that the wheelbearings are fine and no-one but you has ever had a gearbox or steering problem.

The 58mpg is a mixed town and 'A' road commute about 50 miles round trip.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1428

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 08:00:53 AM »
no-one but you has ever had a gearbox or steering problem.

I have never had a gearbox or steering problem *puzzled*

I understand what you are saying about problems Haynes list as possibly not being true across all variations of the same model, but I am guessing many people that might be looking at this board dont have a Haynes manual. If I was one of those people I would rather someone listed what could happen and then it not happen, then to be totally in the dark.

guest2921

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 11:00:45 AM »
I have just changed the battery on a 02 Jazz as the old one was dying. I followed the simple steps in the Haynes manual, including retraining the ECM and elec windows etc after reconnecting. Very straightforward, the EPS warning light came on following reconnection, until I set off driving, then it cleared automatically (very glad about that - the procedure for clearing an EPS fault looked a pain).
The steering is fine and engine performance is the same as before. No problems with the radio other than losing presets (but not sure if my radio is "coded" - it is pretty old). Honda quoted £85, I got a battery for £40 and fitted it in five minutes.

guest2898

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2011, 01:47:31 PM »
Glad to hear that you changed your battery with no problems phil, i have just put a bosch battery on our 02 jazz as the old one was failing fast.... i, however took no chances, i connected one of those portable power packs with the jump leads attached to the terminals on the battery, i removed the old  battery carefully with the connecters firmly attached to the jump leads, i looked into the car and was pleased to see the clock still active on the radio. I lowered the new bosch battery into place and re-attached the terminals and then removed the leads.... i was taking no chances! and everything is in perfect working order with all radio presets etc in place, i have heard some nightmare stories with regards to engine revs, electric windows etc, pleased that none of that happened to you and all is fine...  ;D

TonyS

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2011, 05:26:48 PM »
Changed the battery on my wife's 04 Jazz a couple of months ago, did nothing special other than leaving a door open as a precaution.
Everything worked fine after the change and didn't retrain the ECM, performance and mpg same as before and no problems with the windows or radio presets.

guest5003

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2014, 03:50:55 PM »
Just a big thanks.
Following your instructions-it worked like a dream.

guest4871

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2014, 06:52:22 PM »
Just a big thanks.
Following your instructions-it worked like a dream.

Whose instructions in particular please?

As I mentioned in another post, my owners handbook has clear instructions on how to change the battery.

philskynet

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2014, 07:31:42 AM »
just renewed my battery yesterday..no issues other than changing the time on the radio oh and the radio presets and audio ie bass treble  ..car runs exactly the same as it did before the change   :)

culzean

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Re: Change your battery
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2014, 09:16:15 AM »
just renewed my battery yesterday..no issues other than changing the time on the radio oh and the radio presets and audio ie bass treble  ..car runs exactly the same as it did before the change   :)

Glad you had no problems,  too many scare stories going around about car electrics failing and needing re-training - try to minimize time power is off and you should be OK.  When a garage disconnects the battery to do work on the car it could be off several hours (or days) and is a different case to having power off for less than 1 minute when you are changing a battery.

I have changed the battery on Jazzes and Civics without a moments problem (completely removing the old one and fitting new one without putting 'life-support' electric supply on).  To minimize the time electronics are without power,  prepare the new battery (clean the terminals etc.) and don't disconnect cables off the old one until you have taken the holding strap off etc.  Try to fit the cables back onto the new battery in one go - don't dab them on and off if you can help it. 

Disconnect negative cable (earth) first and re-connect it last - this means that when you have a spanner on the positive terminal and you touch car body or engine with the spanner you won't get a big electrical explosion.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 09:20:49 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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