Author Topic: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels  (Read 24928 times)

John Ratsey

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2016, 11:28:55 AM »
Four major cities move to ban diesel vehicles by 2025 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38170794. None in the UK, however, so we will have to continue to be poisoned for a bit longer. I had hoped that last week's budget statement would have contained some anti-diesel incentives such as increaded fuel duty on diesel but not petrol or an air quality levy added to the annual car tax for all diesel vehicles. Either measure would discourage people from buying a new diesel before the 1st April 2017 change to the taxation.
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culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2016, 11:38:23 AM »
Far from increasing the tax on diesel fuel European governments will probably carry on with their positive discrimination in favour of diesel by continuing to subsidize the fuel to the detriment of petrol.

Anyone would think that European vehicle makers wrote the rules, and not the government legislators - perish the thought  :-X

Anyone who has ever been to Mexico city will know that it is like a soup bowl surrounded by mountains and the soup is diesel fumes that you start to smell as the plane approaches the airport, once smelled never forgotten.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 11:43:15 AM by culzean »
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culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2016, 09:27:53 AM »
I have noticed with damp roads we have been having lately that some cars (mainly German ) are riding around with rear of car proper dirty with licence plate totally obscured by crap, now it may be my wishfull imagination but diesels seem to have more and blacker crap on the back of car than petrols,  could it be that the back of their car is acting as another link in the emissions reduction and collecting the soot that they normally pump out for the benefit of following vehicles.
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guest5079

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2016, 10:05:56 AM »
When I was but a boy, I lived at Sidcup and worked in London, I was turfed off a train at New Cross Gate as there had been an incident. I then walked many miles through a filthy London smog walking past the incident. The Lewisham train crash. I eventually managed to get a bus to take me home .
Moving on in years the young bloke opposite has a Ford transit van and in the past week with the cold weather he has been starting his van and leaving it running. The foul stink of half burnt diesel, which seems to permeate everything,  took me back to that fateful day. I am sorry offend or please I detest the vile product.
Yesterday, I followed a BMW estate, what model I know not as the back was one sheet of black filth. Do manufacturers not test for the vortex that is so obviously causing a problem.
I still get the colly wobbles when I smell diesel on a cold day.

culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2016, 11:52:45 AM »
To try and distance themselves from being responsible and maybe take their mind off other the other many and varied massive crises facing the EU / Europe ( https://hbr.org/2016/09/is-project-europe-doomed ) the Commission has decided to punish several countries over Diesels -  including UK and Germany (good luck with that one).

https://www.euractiv.com/section/transport/news/commission-takes-legal-action-against-seven-eu-countries-over-volkswagen-scandal/

see also PDF attachment of 30 worst diesel cars - interesting  :D

interesting thing is that 'hot restart' diesel emissions are much higher than cold start,  which makes a nonsense of stop-start technology on diesel vehicles - I'm afraid it is all smoke and mirrors (well more smoke than mirrors really).


[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 12:17:49 PM by culzean »
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TonyS

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2016, 04:55:39 PM »
Latest manufacturer to come under investigation according to press reports today is PORSCHE - who just happen to be part of the VW group so you can guess where this is likely to go.

John Ratsey

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2016, 05:48:31 PM »
The Vehicle Emissions Testing programme report at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-emissions-testing-programme-conclusions makes interesting reading. Figures 5-1 compares the VW NOx for the normal and reversed testing cycle while 5-2 shows a similar graph for a normal vehicle while there is also a useful discussion of emissions control systems.
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culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2016, 06:35:51 PM »
I don't like the way they show results for different vehicles and underneath state that you should not make comparisons based on the graph because tests were carried out under different conditions wtf ! Why bother putting results on one graph when you can't compare them - makes it meaningless and not the way I was taught to draw a graph (the whole purpose of putting any results in graph form is so that people can have an easy visual comparison).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2016, 06:51:05 PM »
I don't like the way they show results for different vehicles and underneath state that you should not make comparisons based on the graph because tests were carried out under different conditions wtf ! Why bother putting results on one graph when you can't compare them - makes it meaningless and not the way I was taught to draw a graph (the whole purpose of putting any results in graph form is so that people can have an easy visual comparison).
They are probably trying to prepare the ground for arguing that the limits for acceptable results from real work testing need to be generous in order to allow for the variable conditions which will be encountered. Once that wriggle room has been granted to the manufacturers we will probably find that there is no improvement in the emissions. Governments need to provide other incentives (eg increased taxes) to steer purchasers away from diesels as part of the need to improve air quality. I was hoping that this might have been done in the recent budget statement but no such luck.
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guest5079

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2016, 11:36:06 AM »
This am on the TV was an interview with I think a Thoracic  consultant. He explained that the earlier a person is subjected to pollution the greater the effect. The biggest problem is 'Soot' the stuff that used to give London and other large cities it's smog and yet diesels are pumping this out all day and every day.
He wants Britain to follow the French et al in banning diesels from cities. Personally 2025 is far to way into the future, the manufacturers will have to get a move on and deal and stop trying to blackmail governments.
Mr Cameron is reported as saying to a group of Americans that he lost his job because of the populace vote, well can't we do the same over diesels?

John Ratsey

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2016, 12:18:58 PM »
Re the above: Doctors Against Diesel http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38274792

An Ultra Low Emissions Zone is also being introduced for central London 2020 https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone but that is only a small part of the conurbation. It also still allow Euro 6 diesels most of which, the testing reveals, currently produce significantly more emissions than the euro 6 standard. Unless TFL edit their requirement to "confirmed by independent testing to comply with Euro 6" then there will still be more nasties than necessary in the atmosphere.

The right signals from government would get people buying petrol not diesel. I anticipate busy sales of small diesels with claimed low CO2 immediately prior to the VED change on 1st April 2017 and once bought, they will be around for a while.
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culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2016, 12:52:07 PM »
All this obfuscation and delaying reminds me of asbestos,  people knew about the dangers of asbestos in the 1920's - but nothing was done until a few decades ago - vested interests cannot be underestimated when it comes to dealing with health issues.  Unfortunately the European motor industry had well and truly hitched itself to the Diesel engine and did a good PR job on politicians who understand the law (lets face it,  majority of them trained as lawyers) but are woefully inadequate in understanding anything technical or scientific,  and are easily led down the wrong path.


 http://www.foe.org.au/anti-nuclear/issues/oz/britbombs/guinea-pigs

British soldiers were lined up to watch the atomic tests in Australia - a lot of them later died from cancers of various forms, they believed and trusted their superiors and believed they somehow knew better (and maybe even had the soldiers best interests at heart - big mistake ! ),  but you have to learn the hard way that a lot of people just follow blindly either through ignorance or laziness, and to them free thinking is tantamount to treason.

I always say that Diesel exhaust may be low in CO2 (which is present in normal fresh air and actually not harmful to humans unless the concentration gets so high that it it suffocates them - and it has no lasting effects) but it is high in many other things which are lethal to humans and are cumulative.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 02:02:55 PM by culzean »
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John Ratsey

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2017, 04:30:39 PM »
It appears that some UK VW owners are planning to seek compensation http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38552828. Or perhaps its some lawyers seeing the potential opportunity to get a slice of pay-out.

I still think that the government should be seeking compensation for loss of VED due to mis-classification of the vehicles. VW should pay the difference  until each offending vehicle is scrapped.
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John Ratsey

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2017, 01:43:40 PM »
More about the findings in the USA http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38603723.
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culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2017, 02:49:20 PM »
The worst part of that article is VW claim that the defeat device did not break European law wtf?  I would be interested to see how the Europeans deal with that one on the world stage, that EU colluded with car makers to make falsifying of tests legal  - if it is true then European law is not worth the paper it is written on (or parchment or Vellum or whatever).

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/20/european-commission-warned-car-maker-suspected-cheating-five-years-vw-scandal     :-X
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 03:14:16 PM by culzean »
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