Headlights

[culzean]

Just to mention my wifes mk2 just passed its MOT again, the second one with the classiccarleds.co.uk H4 LED bulbs fitted, also had LED sidelight and reversing light bulbs fitted.

[Steve1962]

Many thanks to Culzean in particular for the information regarding LED bulbs - am considering getting some for my 2011 Jazz, and in particular for my wife's  2014 Suzuki SX4.

Steve

[Jocko]

As long as you are aware that they are illegal for road use in the UK.

[d2d4j]

Hi

Like culzean, our jazz passed mot again without any issues on led lights. All front lights are led and again, I told mot garage it was fitted with led lights

When I fitted the led, I informed our insurance company and they made a note, or said they had but did not change anything on insurance

I have never been flashed by other road users

I have also fitted additional led DRL which now have flowing indicators. They are positioned between the top of the light cluster and bonnet

If I have any free time, I will post a small video

Many thanks

John

[Steve1962]

As long as you are aware that they are illegal for road use in the UK.

Thanks Jocko.

I'm going to speak to the garage who do my MOT's and servicing before deciding about the purchase.
We live in a very rural area with little or no street lighting so this would definitely be a worthwhile modification to do.


I'll keep you posted, and thanks to all for the input on this subject.

Cheers
Steve

[culzean]

As long as you are aware that they are illegal for road use in the UK.

The problems with fitting 'non-standard' bulbs were down to people fitting H4 HID bulbs in reflectors designed for filament bulbs,  the totally different light source and the fact most of them moved a solenoid operated 'shutter' over the  HID arc to provide some cut-off for dip beam, or the solenoid actually moved the whole tube with the arc in it back and forth a few mm,   but if you notice an H4 filament bulb has two distinct filaments in different positions in the optics - so a single source electric arc was never going to produce an acceptable beam pattern,  and the result was bright and unfocused light shining out of headlamps at other road users,  Move on to LED bulbs and then again pretty much every bulb had either a large square or round LED chip fitted which in no way replicated the long thin shape of a filament and once again resulted in an unfocused beam with a lot of the extra light not going where it should.  Then Philips came along and developed a ZES Luxeon LED light source that was made to exactly replicate the size, shape and position in reflector of a filament, and enabled two arrays of LED just like the two filaments in a normal H4 bulb,  with a much more useful 6000K ( daylight) light output compared to the distinctly yellow 3500 to 4500 of filament bulbs even the best Xenon filament 150% brighter bulbs get no better than 4500K.  Now like d2d4j and other users the cars have passed MOT with LED bulbs fitted, so the beam pattern and tightly controlled 'dazzle zone' are obviously OK ( boy racers used to remove their HID bulbs for MOT and then refit them ) I have not been flashed by other road users and the nearer to daylight output, although much whiter is not the annoying 'legal for road use' 9000K+ blue of German staff cars.  Not sure the bulbs are much brighter than 150% Xenon filaments I used to fit,  but the light quality makes driving much more pleasant.  What I have noticed most is that the classiccarleds LED bulbs put more light on the nearside verge - which makes them much better than any filament I ever tried ( and I have pretty much tried them all because for many years I had long daily commutes on mainly unlit twisting country B roads in all weathers and needed all the light i could get, so if any bulb promised to be brighter I would buy it).

[Jocko]

I have no doubts that the bulbs you are fitting are safe, give a better lighting pattern, pass MOTs with no issues and generally make the car more pleasant to drive at night. Just, as the law stands at present, they are illegal to use on UK roads. As long as people fitting them are aware of that.

[ColinS]

I have no doubts that the bulbs you are fitting are safe, give a better lighting pattern, pass MOTs with no issues and generally make the car more pleasant to drive at night. Just, as the law stands at present, they are illegal to use on UK roads. As long as people fitting them are aware of that.

+1

I did read a statement from the DfT saying that just because a car passes the MOT, doesn't mean that it is legal to drive on the road.

[culzean]

The MOT is considered a once a year snapshot of vehicles condition and something can fail or break on the way home from an MOT that renders vehicle unsafe,  I don't think a head light bulb falls into that category as the beam pattern check is very specific in its parameters.  Bulb sellers have to put a disclaimer on the bulb if it is not homolgated for a reflector. Philips make filament bulbs and the ZES LED array they designed to replace filaments,  I am more than happy that my head light bulbs will not fail at inconvenient time and I may never have to buy another head light bulb.  Driving with a head light bulb blown in definitely against the law ( but only if it is dark ).

If an an MOT test station issues a certificate for your vehicle and you are stopped on way home and you are prosecuted for driving an illegal car away from an MOT station surely it would be the testers fault, otherwise what is the point of having an MOT ?

The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy basically makes an MOT meaningless, and is 4r53 covering of the worst kind..

[Jocko]

The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy

ColinS said legal, not roadworthy. And MOT only covers items tested. I had a car with a chassis member made of plaster of Paris. It had passed the MOT because it couldn't be poked sufficiently in case the tester caused damage. I poked it and found the botched repair.

[ColinS]

The MOT is considered a once a year snapshot of vehicles condition and something can fail or break on the way home from an MOT that renders vehicle unsafe,  I don't think a head light bulb falls into that category as the beam pattern check is very specific in its parameters.  Bulb sellers have to put a disclaimer on the bulb if it is not homolgated for a reflector. Philips make filament bulbs and the ZES LED array they designed to replace filaments,  I am more than happy that my head light bulbs will not fail at inconvenient time and I may never have to buy another head light bulb.  Driving with a head light bulb blown in definitely against the law ( but only if it is dark ).

If an an MOT test station issues a certificate for your vehicle and you are stopped on way home and you are prosecuted for driving an illegal car away from an MOT station surely it would be the testers fault, otherwise what is the point of having an MOT ?

The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy basically makes an MOT meaningless, and is 4r53 covering of the worst kind..

The MoT is a minimum safety standard that does not permit dismantling to be carried-out during the examination. It does not, generally, enforce Type Approval. Therefore, it is possible to have an unroadworthy car that has just passed its MoT Test.

[culzean]

The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy

ColinS said legal, not roadworthy. And MOT only covers items tested. I had a car with a chassis member made of plaster of Paris. It had passed the MOT because it couldn't be poked sufficiently in case the tester caused damage. I poked it and found the botched repair.

Well it is clear on the beam testing machine if beam pattern is OK or not,  and the limits are pretty tight, especially the 'dazzle' area and the hotspot position... does not need any dismantling to check it.

[Jocko]

Well it is clear on the beam testing machine if beam pattern is OK or not,  and the limits are pretty tight, especially the 'dazzle' area and the hotspot position... does not need any dismantling to check it.

Still doesn't make them any more legal.

If it is of any consequence, I would probably fit them to my car, if it wasn't such a *********** to do, and if I wasn't happy with the headlights as they are.

[guest4871]

a much more useful 6000K ( daylight) light output compared to the distinctly yellow 3500 to 4500 of filament bulbs even the best Xenon filament 150% brighter bulbs get no better than 4500K.  Now like d2d4j and other users the cars have passed MOT with LED bulbs fitted, so the beam pattern and tightly controlled 'dazzle zone' are obviously OK ( boy racers used to remove their HID bulbs for MOT and then refit them ) I have not been flashed by other road users and the nearer to daylight output, although much whiter is not the annoying 'legal for road use' 9000K+ blue of German staff cars.  Not sure the bulbs are much brighter than 150% Xenon filaments I used to fit,  but the light quality makes driving much more pleasant.  What I have noticed most is that the classiccarleds LED bulbs put more light on the nearside verge - which makes them much better than any filament I ever tried ( and I have pretty much tried them all because for many years I had long daily commutes on mainly unlit twisting country B roads in all weathers and needed all the light i could get, so if any bulb promised to be brighter I would buy it).

The problem with LED bulbs is the colour of the light. "Daylight" bulbs at night are very harsh (not dazzling) to oncoming drivers compared with a "warm" white bulb. You may not have seen flashes but neither have you heard the curses!

(I hope you are not conflating Kelvin and Lumens?).

[Jocko]

That is the problem with modern headlights. The lumen (brightness) output. Car headlights were traditionally regulated by a maximum and minimum wattage, but modern headlights have negated that. Modern headlights are so bright that even when set correctly they still destroy the night vision of approaching vehicles.