Author Topic: The iShift again.  (Read 19045 times)

lexi

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The iShift again.
« on: December 03, 2014, 08:46:40 PM »

    Have been thinking of the scenarios of this box.  Sitting at lights with foot on brake and in A1.
      Am I right in thinking that we are in gear but de- clutched?  If so, are we not putting pressure on release bearing?  Any thoughts here?

applicationcen

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2014, 02:07:27 PM »
Can you let me know what you are hoping to find out? (I have an iShift so I am keen to know as much about them as possible).

lexi

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2014, 09:16:11 AM »

    Very little online about the actual workings of the box. If you have a manual box and are sitting at lights, in gear but with clutch down, that is bad practice. You are stressing release bearing.  I want to know how the iShift does the same thing with the hydraulic robot........without stressing the bearing. 
   It is not something that has reared it's head as a problem AFAIK but many owners have different practices.
      Proper modern auto boxes have sensors that de-clutch when you sit at lights with foot on brake. The de- clutching in this instance obviously involves no release bearings as the clutch pack is disengaged by solenoid.
       I want to know if we still have standard clutch fork and release bearing on our iShift and what the robot does at the lights with foot on brake.
  My car is also 10 plate.

John Ratsey

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2014, 09:29:11 AM »
I would note that with my Jazz Hybrid (CVT gearbox) I need to leave the car in gear with my foot on the brake in order for the engine's auto stop-start to work. If I shift the gearstick to N (still with foot on brake) then the engine immediately wakes up. So, if that system was designed around the driver keeping the car in gear at the traffic lights then it may indicate that Honda assume a similar driving style for the iShift.
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lexi

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 12:00:42 AM »

   Thanks John.  Interesting with the CVT.
 Different animal mind you and our i Shift are manual boxes with a clutch.

applicationcen

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 12:21:32 PM »
http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/en/html_en/000000000001359.html

If you follow the assembly drawings on this page and the associates links further down the page there are some references and pictures of the fork and release bearing. Certainly how to install the clutch actuator on an iShift. You might be able to get an idea of what's what?

RichardA

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 01:51:19 PM »
I think the wiki section on the Civinfo forum has tech details on the I-SHIFT.

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lexi

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2014, 07:14:18 PM »

  Thanks for info.  Further to this thread;http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=6451.0

   The research I have done indicates that my first assumption of using the handbrake may be correct procedure?
    Use the hand brake and leave in gear and foot off pedals.  Someone with high mileage Jazz has informed me that is the procedure.........rather than sit in gear with foot on brake.  Would be good to get a consensus on the proper Honda way as a kind of reference for the forum.
   Thoughts and discussion are welcome.

stiggysawdust

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2014, 09:10:05 PM »
I don't recommend this. My other half was waiting to pick me up from Hospital a while ago. She forgot the engine was still running, (It is very smooth and quiet). when she shuffled to make herself comfortable, she managed to catch the accelerator and the car lurched forward and touched the vehicle in front. Luckily only a cracked number plate. Could have been worse or even a person walking in front. Of course, when you are in traffic it is less likely that you would forget the engine was running.






    Use the hand brake and leave in gear and foot off pedals. 





« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 09:16:25 PM by stiggysawdust »
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lexi

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2014, 09:35:29 PM »

  Did that happen with her handbrake fully on?  I read elsewhere that once handbrake light is on,the clutch is disengaged?   I will try this myself.  ATM I am simply putting into neutral if more than a minute at lights. 
   The handbrake on, and foot off the pedals is what a Jazz owner uses who has put 110k miles on a Jazz from new. I am still gathering evidence here having read the Civic forum.

stiggysawdust

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2014, 03:12:57 PM »
Yes, handbrake fully on. Obviously a small number of revs wouldn't do too much but a fair number of revs and no handbrake would hold, even possibly dragging the locked rear wheels.
Handbrake on may disengage the clutch at tickover but it does not at higher revs.
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applicationcen

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 01:41:10 PM »
I am certain that the handbrake does not dis-engage the clutch, especially when reving.

I encounter several steep hills with traffic lights where I have to do a handbrake release while bringing the revs up.

The hill start mechanism (p303 in the manual) operates while the car is in gear only (not Neutral).

The brake servo maintains some pressure on the brakes for about 1 second to allow you to get the revs up. However on a steep hill it is not enough to stop it rolling back - so thats where I need to use the hand brake.

When you rev in gear with the hand brake on - the car hunkers down indicating that the clutch is engaging.

lexi

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2014, 09:37:50 PM »
 
Quote
Handbrake on may disengage the clutch at tickover but it does not at higher revs.

  Yes, this is key. I would like to see the drawing of handbrake sensor activation and what it is doing.

  As you say App. It is the revs that picks the clutch up and drives car forward.  All ECU and engine speed sensor/servo controlled.   Good info guys in understanding the unit and making it last.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 09:41:21 PM by lexi »

culzean

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2014, 07:06:48 PM »
Been reading a bit about 'normal auto gearboxes' with a torque converter link between engine and gearbox,  seems there is no clutch and the torque converter is still trying to drive the car even at tickover,  but cannot put enough power through to move the car,  as the revs rise the power transmitted goes up and if the brakes are off the car will move,  but if the brakes are on and you increase the engine revs the converter will try to drive against the brakes,  and the excess energy is lost as heat into the gearbox fluid.  It seems that the torque converter never really removes drive power from the gearbox,  and maybe the i-Shift has a torque converter which works like this, and has the ability to do a hill start because the system has devices to stop the car going backwards and will increase the revs to stop car rolling back.   The fluid link between engine and gearbox means that when you put lever to 'park' position there is a mechanical lock applied to the output shaft of gearbox,  which is why you should never select 'P' while car is still moving as this can shear the lock mechanism and/or damage the gearbox. It is recommended that with an auto box you should select neutral or park when standing still in traffic for longer times because it disconnects the torque converter, unloads the engine  and the car uses less fuel.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 07:09:53 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Eddie Honda

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Re: The iShift again.
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 07:29:54 PM »
and maybe the i-Shift has a torque converter which works like this.

And maybe it doesn't have a torque converter? As far as I can see, it just like a manual gearbox with a conventional single dry plate clutch. Compared to a normal manual the only thing that is different is a computer and actuators are doing all the donkey work.

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