Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Honda & Other Honda Models => Topic started by: JJazz on December 15, 2023, 10:03:49 PM
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Email today:
From £44,100
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From £44,100? :o
I really like Honda, but with the e:Ny1 they are really pricing themselves out of the market. As a possible electric successor to our Jazz, I really would like to see a Honda again. But when I make a comparison between the e:Ny1 and another possible candidate (which is actually also a bit too big for the two of us), I'm really shocked... :o
I will show the other possible candidate below to compare to the Honda:
https://www.carwow.co.uk/honda/eny1 vs https://www.carwow.co.uk/byd/dolphin#gref
Similar range, (safer) lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery, BYD fits a heat pump as standard to all cars, as well as electrically adjustable vegan leather seats, has always metallic paint, a (slightly) faster charging speed etc. etc.
And.... a much, much more attractive price tag...:
150kW Comfort 60.4kWh Auto £29,311
150kW Design 60.4kWh 5dr Auto £30,766
Honda: five-year, 90,000-mile warranty.
BYD: six-year, 93,750-mile warranty, eight years on the drive motor and battery, the latter also extending out to 125,000 miles.
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Is the future large SUV types to accommodate the battery packs ?
Not for me
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Ridiculous amount of money for something you would do the shopping in. I have had this email, and one from Renault too. They are ceasing production of the Zoe, and bringing out the Renault 5 as an EV. These other EV SUV type things are far too big and cumbersome for my taste. My neighbour has a Merc EV, which is a company car. She hates it because not only is it too big, it also cannot be relied on to cover the distances she did previously. Now she has to plan her trips to the 'nth degree so she can find a charging point. I will stick to my 560 mile a tank Jazz thankyou very much.
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Also received the marketing email. Offering £8000 PCP contribution so they must be struggling to shift them. Not surprised at that price!
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Silly money. However good it might be I'm not spending anything like that amount on a leccy car. The world's gone bonkers.
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I too received the email, along with others from Honda promoting the CRV, HRV, ZRV Civic and Jazz.
The only one not offering a deal on was the Jazz, which suggests it is the only one selling. As I have already stated I think Honda has just become too expensive, I would not pay £48k for top of the range CRV etc.
They are nearly all above £40k except of course the Jazz, but that is pricey, mitigated by having a Jazz to part ex, if you are lucky.
We live in strange times.
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No way is the e:Ny1 the successor to the Jazz, Honda will need to bring out an EV Jazz pretty soon or lose its market share.
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Same here , I had that email, it’s a joke , I have only had my JazZ three months, why would I want to sell it
Plasma
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I thought my new 71 plate jazz was expensive even after a cash discount ! If I wanted to buy a new jazz today to replace it then its25% more expensive! My purchase my based on the clever hybrid drive and at that time the nearest size car to my previous Nissan notes . I would never pay silly money upwards of 25k for any car as I have better things to do with my money than throw it away on car depreciation and running costs . EVs not in my lifetime
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Same here, fully agree
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The Chinese with the £26k MG4 and the £36k Tesla offer far better VFM.
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Some Government dept have decided to cancel private ownership of all cars & vans hence the current complications......
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It was a shock when my Toyota Yaris broke the £10K barrier back in 2007. More than my first house . And my mk4 Jazz broke the £20K barrier -( partly due to hybrid tech and a higher spec than I would normally have chosen)
£44K :o You know things are bad when they emphasise deposit contribution and % APR figures instead. .
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I am coming to the end of my motoring career so the Jazz will almost certainly be my last car. The Honda EV isn't even close to being competitive with other EV offerings on the market.
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The majority of younger people I work with don’t bother to work out the cost of buying their cars on pcps . Oh it’s £600 month ….and what’s the interest you pay on your 3 year old shiny 3series or a4 …?? It’s 10 or 12 %…. I stopped trying to explain… warranty that you have to pay the claim for before they argue against the warranty providers small print … they buy a car costing easily £40 to 50k new and wonder why they get repair bills of thousands . Naturally the increase in mortgage rates has made their finances too scary . Many of us recall mortgages rates of 13 and 14 % that we barely managed to pay running cars costing a couple of hundred £s . Ho hum
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I remember my mortgage being 14% in 1983, but, much to their dismay today, my house was only £28k
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It was a shock when my Toyota Yaris broke the £10K barrier back in 2007. More than my first house . And my mk4 Jazz broke the £20K barrier -( partly due to hybrid tech and a higher spec than I would normally have chosen)
£44K :o You know things are bad when they emphasise deposit contribution and % APR figures instead. .
WE bought our first house in 1969. £4k. We could have bought a new E Type Jaguar for £2k and a Mini for £600
I recall 30% infaltion and 14% morgages in 1975
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I think I can do slightly better. My first house in 1962, (in fact I'm still in it), Cost £2475.
My latest Jazz has cost more than 11 times the price of the house.
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I have spoken to some of my chums in the trade and they reckon if Honda are going to continue with this moronic pricing structure, it will be the death of Honda in the U.K.
Honda Australia is already loosing market share hand over fist and it looks a s though they may withdraw from the antipodes.
the e:Ny1 is basically an electric HR-V with a SMALLER! boot.
an average range, unspectacular charging speeds and does not review well so far.
I read the triple Whatcar review on the Tesla 3Vs the BYD Dolphin Vs the ID7.
There cold weather ranges, and their miles per Kw were pathetic compared to my 72 reg eNiro from which I get 4 miles MORE than Kia quote (294 against 282quoted) in the cold weather and I get 313 miles in the summer.
My average miles per Kw is 4.4 cross country keeping up to all speed limits including 70MPH.
Anyone considering a BYD should do a lot of research. They have some good points and some not so good. The Dolphin is about the same price as the Honda e:NY1 but is much larger with a huge range.
There are smaller and cheaper BYD's.
Here is the Whatcar triple review.
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[/quote]
Mini for £600
[/quote]
That's £10,000 in today's money
You get what you pay for.
Cars back then we're unreliable and rust buckets, I had a Vauxhall Chevette, you could see the road though the floor, as for technology, there wasn't even a radio. :D
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I read the triple Whatcar review on the Tesla 3Vs the BYD Dolphin Vs the ID7.
............/.........
The Dolphin is about the same price as the Honda e:NY1 but is much larger with a huge range.
There are smaller and cheaper BYD's.
I'm afraid you're a little confused. The test concerns the BYD Seal, not the Dolphin.
The BYD Dolphin:
is a bit smaller than the Honda e:NY1, but much, much cheaper.
The Dolphin 150kW 60.4kWh you can have from £29,311:
https://www.carwow.co.uk/byd/dolphin#gref
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Just responding to Karoq's post above I, too, have wondered if Honda will go the way of Mitsubishi and cease selling cars in the UK. Our local Honda dealership, here in Warrington, has taken on an MG franchise and, if you enter the showroom, Honda now has a corner with the bulk of the showroom given over to MG.
Holdcroft, who own the garage, will be protecting their interests and diversifying. They don't seem, on the face of it, to believe Honda has any long term future in the UK.
Thinking of the truly monstrous price of the e:Ny1 it reminds me of a quote I got to redecorate our main bedroom (not a straightforward job to be fair). It was comically large - we are talking thousands - they obviously didn't want the job and Honda don't want the sales.
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Maybe Honda departing uk Swindon when it ended its production there is a sign of Honda s future plans . Contrast with Nissan in Sunderland investing in EVs and GIGa battery plants . Uk isn’t a large market for Honda in their global numbers
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Our dealership (DM Keith) in Lincolnshire seems to be concentrating more toward SEAT now. I think they will probably relegate Honda to the back of the lot... but as long as they honour my 5 year service plan (and beyond) 100%, then I will be happy.
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The Honda E in my hands for a year, whilst a terrific city car, was very disappointing in efficiency, averaging just 3 mile/kWh over the 12 months, whereas my Jazz has average nearly 57mpg over the same 1 year period with similar use. I expected a small EV city focused car to have an efficiency far above that of much bigger EV's.
It therefore did not surprise me to see the mediocre efficiency of the e:Ny1.
What was Honda thinking to launch a new EV that from day one falls far short of its competition.
Sometimes the looks sways potential buyers, but for me that's a miss as well.
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Just out of interest I looked up the 11G Civic in the US
I know it's not a hybrid over there so not a direct comparison but converting the 'from' price in £ they start from just under £20k
Honda UK pricing is almost double that
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The Honda E in my hands for a year, whilst a terrific city car, was very disappointing in efficiency, averaging just 3 mile/kWh over the 12 months.
Speaking to a colleague of mine this morning, he tells me, his Tesla, now 3 years old, is still averaging 6 miles/kwh.
Charging overnight at around 7p/kwh, which has got be cheap motoring.
I thought I was doing well, getting 84mpg on my regular trip, from Solihull to Stratford-on-avon, with my Advance Jazz, but I can’t compete with that. :o
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Honda will introduce 30 new EVs globally by 2030 with a global sales volume of 2 million units
Honda will present the world premiere of its new EV series for global markets as a part of its exhibit at CES 2024, which will be held January 9-12, 2024 in Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.
https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-corporate/releases/honda-to-debut-all-new-global-ev-series-at-ces-2024
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Our dealership (DM Keith) in Lincolnshire seems to be concentrating more toward SEAT now. I think they will probably relegate Honda to the back of the lot... but as long as they honour my 5 year service plan (and beyond) 100%, then I will be happy.
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DM Keith no doubt have many loyal Honda clients whom bought Hondas before DM took over the Honda dealership and would still offer the Honda servicing -after all it’s one of the best dealer revenues after finance commissions and incentives !
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The Honda E in my hands for a year, whilst a terrific city car, was very disappointing in efficiency, averaging just 3 mile/kWh over the 12 months.
Speaking to a colleague of mine this morning, he tells me, his Tesla, now 3 years old, is still averaging 6 miles/kwh.
Charging overnight at around 7p/kwh, which has got be cheap motoring.
I thought I was doing well, getting 84mpg on my regular trip, from Solihull to Stratford-on-avon, with my Advance Jazz, but I can’t compete with that. :o
I am not sure the low cost overnight charging is a solution for all. If you only do a low mileage, then the in crease in peak period charges more than outweighs any night savings. Then for high mileage drivers, the limited cheap charging period is insufficient to fully charge a car and then one needs to top up on the road using the high cost rapid chargers.
When I had the E, changing to an EV tariff would have increased my peak electricity costs by nearly £300/year.
Factor in the ca £1000 for installation of a home charger(depreciate at £250/year over 4 years), the increased cost of buying and insuring an EV, then the 84mpg starts to look very attractive.
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It doesn't make any sense to buy a new EV at the moment, the ones being sold are mainly for company car schemes. Private buyers are better off buying 12-month old models, eg a 22-plate Tesla Model 3 can be bought for under £30K.
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I care less about the cost per KW or miles per KW/H . Its the range that makes EV's unsuitable for my current lifestyle (excuse pun) .
I sometimes drive 400 +miles in a day, sometimes in places where you are more likely to see a wild bear than a charging point . EV charging infrastructure is still a long way from meeting that need in most countries .
At the moment the ability to chose my own route, locations, hotels etc without having to factor in diverting to find chargers, extra stops etc probably saves me more than any savings on petrol . But maybe not in Eco terms . I accept mine is probably a selfish lifestyle, and I try to be eco friendly in other ways. (very few short journeys by car -I usually walk - meat free days, careful use of home heating, a car no bigger than I really need etc)
Maybe EV's will improve, and my needs will decline and we will meet somewhere in the middle quite soon.
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I have just had to do a 340 mile round trip in a day .I couldn’t have done the travelling in an EV and still had time to do what I needed to when I arrived . Even with all motorway travel I still got 57 mpg and a thats not driving lightly ! The jazz does a splendid job of high speed driving IMHO !
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I no longer want or am capable of driving 300 miles a day. But 200 is likely and possible (twice this year).
In the range of s/h BEVs available that I could afford, range is c 150 miles in summer and less in winter.
SO to me a s/h BEV which is affordable is marginal.
Then we will need a new circuit breaker - currently 60Watt: need 100Watt. Which means a new control unit. And wiring a new spur to the garage - approx 30 meters through two ceilings. Add a charger and very little change from £3k.. (The house is 200 years old with 1 meter thick stone walls.) And then we have to buy a car.
The sums make no sense. The hassle is obvious.
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Silly money. However good it might be I'm not spending anything like that amount on a leccy car. The world's gone bonkers.
:D Agreed 100%!
£44k is far too much money to spend on any car imho. A nice pre-loved Jazz would be my preference.
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Watch this space in about a year :)
Sep 21, 3,700 miles, garaged from new
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Watch this space in about a year :)
Sep 21, 3,700 miles, garaged from new
I've read so many good things about the mk4, and had a sit in one. So plush compared to the mk2. Better mpg, ride, toys and sound proofing too!
Problem is, my Jazz is just about to hit 130k and is still in fine shape. I'm too tight to get rid of such a reliable old car that has been so faithfull. Be nice to have a newer car, but when the old one is still working well with the added bonus of it being worth more than I paid for it >45k miles ago!
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Once I've moved and I'm sorted I'll have no need for a car
If I kept it I would probably only do about 300 miles a year with most of that the monthly run to charge the HV battery
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£44k is far too much money to spend on any car imho. A nice pre-loved Jazz would be my preference.
Indeed, £44k is far too much money to spend on (even a brandnew) car. Even a brandnew JAZZ e:HEV Advance with metallic paint will set you back £28.5k. In September 2021 our EX was just under £19k here in Poland. Honda is going bonkers... ???
A brandnew electric with a 265-mile range , a bit bigger (and spacier) than that Jazz and better equiped you buy for some £1k more...
And maybe a range of 265 miles is not enough for everyone (Lord V), but for many here it is more than enough.
The point remains that even spending around £30k on a car is a bit ehhhh... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c018.gif) (too) much.
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Not only that but UK insurance is going crazy
Just been reading about some insurance renewals rising from circa £400 to £700 with no change of details
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I no longer want or am capable of driving 300 miles a day. But 200 is likely and possible (twice this year).
In the range of s/h BEVs available that I could afford, range is c 150 miles in summer and less in winter.
SO to me a s/h BEV which is affordable is marginal.
Then we will need a new circuit breaker - currently 60Watt: need 100Watt. Which means a new control unit. And wiring a new spur to the garage - approx 30 meters through two ceilings. Add a charger and very little change from £3k.. (The house is 200 years old with 1 meter thick stone walls.) And then we have to buy a car.
The sums make no sense. The hassle is obvious.
Yes - you have to factor in changes that might be required to your domestic wiring set up. I'm pretty sure we would require some upgrades. In addition to that we would need quite a log run from the consumer unit out to the charger which would be on the front wall.
Given my low mileage I could probably manage with a granny cable and a straightforward outdoor socket but it's not worth the hassle. Given my age I'm reasonably confident the Jazz will see me out.
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Not only that but UK insurance is going crazy
Just been reading about some insurance renewals rising from circa £400 to £700 with no change of details
Dreading my renewal in January next year so a nice post Christmas present. I paid £350 in January this year so I am braced for £600 - maybe more. One thing I might do is have a serious look at any extras I have and also my annual mileage. I think I told them 4,000 last time because I wanted a bit of a buffer but I did just under 2,000 and I simply can't see me doing more than around 1,750 in the coming year.
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Public charging infrastructure, which in its current state is poor and real range are significant negatives. But it's the porkies that the brochures tell, that try to pull the wool over the eyes of the uninitiated.
First take the estimated range, well in the real world, expect around 80-85% of that number, worse in the winter. Then the recommended charging of 20-80%, gives you 60% of that range. So if you start with a 280 mile range, you are probably looking for a charger every 140 miles or so.
To rub salt into the wound, once you find your charger, hoping its not occupied and working, it most likely meant a detour from your route and then you will most likely be plugging it in and faffing around to start the charge in the pouring rain, as most have zero weather protection.
The Jazz when I fill up often shows around a 600 mile range, my less economical second (fun)car still has a range of around 500 miles. Life is too short to waste my time siting around waiting for a battery to charge.
I live in a small close of 10 houses and there are 3 Mk3 Jazz's and 2 Mk4 Jazz's, maybe its a start of a trend.
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First take the estimated range, well in the real world, expect around 80-85% of that number
Real life example: WLTP range of 265 miles.
In our real world testing, we got an impressive 243 miles out of the #### thanks to efficiency of nearly 4.0 miles per kWh. That wasn’t gently hypermiling, but a stern test on Britain’s motorway network and some very hilly terrain in the Peak district.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/features-landing/fleet-news-ev-range-test#:~:text=While%20our%20test%20wasn't,than%20enough%20for%20most%20drivers.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/byd/dolphin-ev/
And yes, of course less range in winter, like our Jazz... :(
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IIRC the e:Ny1 is the output of an joint venture (with GM?) which comes out of a factory in China and has been available in other parts of the world for about a year. Honda would need to pay me to swap my HR-V for the e:Ny1. The latter is bigger on the outside (which I don't want) and doesn't have the real life range that I would want. Never mind the issue of too many basic controls being on a big touchscreen (a usability failing which is shared with most, if not all EVs, and should be marked down in the safety tests).
Perhaps by 2030 one of the many planned new Honda EVs will tick the right boxes but it remains to be seen if it will be offered here. A vehicle which might suit many would be a Jazz given a double-skin floorpan with sufficient batteries sandwiched inside to give a genuine 250 mile winter range. The thicker floor would raise the seat height which would appeal to many older folk who want that height but not an SUV.
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IIRC the e:Ny1 is the output of an joint venture (with GM?) which comes out of a factory in China and has been available in other parts of the world for about a year. Honda would need to pay me to swap my HR-V for the e:Ny1. The latter is bigger on the outside (which I don't want) and doesn't have the real life range that I would want. Never mind the issue of too many basic controls being on a big touchscreen (a usability failing which is shared with most, if not all EVs, and should be marked down in the safety tests).
Perhaps by 2030 one of the many planned new Honda EVs will tick the right boxes but it remains to be seen if it will be offered here. A vehicle which might suit many would be a Jazz given a double-skin floorpan with sufficient batteries sandwiched inside to give a genuine 250 mile winter range. The thicker floor would raise the seat height which would appeal to many older folk who want that height but not an SUV.
Just picking up on that touchscreen thing, my cousin's late husband had a long career in the car industry both on the manufacturing side and later in sales. He was also an advanced driver. I remember him saying years ago that he didn't understand how manufacturers were getting away with infotainment and or touch screens. He argued that there was little real difference between them and mobile phones which are illegal to use when driving - the difference is that the infotainment screen isn't hand held but, in terms of distraction, he argued they were similar.
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Depends how you use them. Drivers looking for then inserting CD's or cassettes, or retuning older radios also caused many crashes.
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Depends how you use them. Drivers looking for then inserting CD's or cassettes, or retuning older radios also caused many crashes.
I used to car share with a bloke who did exactly that, scrabbling around on the floor after dropping a cassette. He, and his passengers, must have escaped death many times!
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Another nail in the e:Ny1's coffin
Maybe I’m being too anthropomorphic here, but the e:Ny1 has tried to retain some Honda DNA: a vocal powertrain, its own take on regenerative braking and a sporty-feeling suspension set-up. Unfortunately all three turn out to be weaknesses: the Honda is the least quiet and comfortable of the trio.
On straight-line performance, the e:Ny1 narrowly beats the Hyundai, but its steering and dynamics aren’t as involving. Which leaves Honda’s trump card to be the nicest cabin with lots of space and the plushest materials, but rightly so given it’s just £6k less than a basic Porsche Macan. The Honda takes the bronze medal in our Hyundai Kona Electric vs Fiat 600e vs Honda e:Ny1 test.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/comparison/2023/fiat-600e-vs-hyundai-kona-electric-vs-honda-eny1/
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Honda new car pricing just a complete joke. Can't understand the business rationale. ::) Time to test drive a Dacia. Not as good - sure. But if you just want a small competent runaround car........ :(
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The Honda E in my hands for a year, whilst a terrific city car, was very disappointing in efficiency, averaging just 3 mile/kWh over the 12 months, whereas my Jazz has average nearly 57mpg over the same 1 year period with similar use.
That's pretty poor, my E is around 4, and most on the forum talk about 3.5 to 4.5 which is about average. All depends on many variables I suppose, my second car milage is not even worth having night time electric charges compared to the best deals overall. My Jazz is currently 63.3. The Ny1 I wouldn't even look at.
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Time to test drive a Dacia.
Why would you want to test drive a Dacia if you have an almost new Crosstar?(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a018.gif)
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The Honda E in my hands for a year, whilst a terrific city car, was very disappointing in efficiency, averaging just 3 mile/kWh over the 12 months, whereas my Jazz has average nearly 57mpg over the same 1 year period with similar use.
That's pretty poor, my E is around 4, and most on the forum talk about 3.5 to 4.5 which is about average. All depends on many variables I suppose, my second car milage is not even worth having night time electric charges compared to the best deals overall. My Jazz is currently 63.3. The Ny1 I wouldn't even look at.
Yes, very poor. Summer it was low 3's, winter high 2's. I think the issue was the high number of very short journeys, where the E tended to use significant battery on start-up, probably initially to heat or cool the cabin and I also think to bring the battery pack up to normal operating temperature.
On a particular longer run(15 miles) the E would average around 3.5, but usually below 4, whilst on the same run the Jazz averages 74-75mpg, every time without fail.(My Jaguar 24/25mpg for comparison)
On one bitterly cold icy/snowy 20 mile run, the E failed to better 2.
In general EV's from other manufacturers, seem to easily exceed the Honda EV's efficiencies