Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Other Hondas & General Topics => Honda & Other Honda Models => Topic started by: Jocko on May 15, 2019, 04:24:06 PM

Title: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on May 15, 2019, 04:24:06 PM
I have just received an email from Honda telling me that the new all electric car is to be called the Honda e, and will be available next spring. They are inviting me to put down an £800 refundable reservation fee, which will get me priority delivery. If only I was in the market for a new Honda I would jump at the opportunity.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Ozzie on May 15, 2019, 08:15:30 PM
There's no mention of purchase cost?  >:( >:(
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on May 15, 2019, 08:54:59 PM
The Sunday Times had an article on it a few months back, I quote:
"it will likely cost about the same as similar cars such as the Renault Zoe. We expect the base price will be around the £20,000 mark, after you factor in the government’s current £3,500 Plug-In Car Grant."
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: richardfrost on May 16, 2019, 12:45:48 PM
Regional versions will be available...

Yorkshire - Honda e-by-gum
Lancashire - Honda e-cky-thump
Manchester - Honda e-zer-good
Glasgow - Honda e-you-Jimmy

I'm sure there will be more!
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on May 28, 2019, 06:40:29 PM
Honda just emailed me which included a link to this video.

Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: olduser1 on May 31, 2019, 06:46:34 PM
Likely to be nearer £30k for UK market....
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on May 31, 2019, 06:51:07 PM
Likely to be nearer £30k for UK market....
We'll soon know. Not long until it comes on the market.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: culzean on May 31, 2019, 08:03:27 PM
Electric cars need to come down in price a lot before they become attractive to most buyers. Not enough range for a first car and too expensive for a second car.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: John Ratsey on June 08, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
I've had an email from Honda which claims "over 125 miles" range and fast charge to 80% in 30 minutes.

Also "Reservations are now open for priority ordering and preferential delivery in 2020."
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: culzean on June 08, 2019, 08:03:40 PM
I've had an email from Honda which claims "over 125 miles" range and fast charge to 80% in 30 minutes.

Also "Reservations are now open for priority ordering and preferential delivery in 2020."

If anyone has ever wondered why the 80% figure is used by BEV car makers it is because getting above 80% charge takes a lot longer and can damage the battery.  Bit like saying a car has a 50 litre fuel tank and you can get 40 litres in very quickly, but getting the last 10 litres in is going to take you 3 hours and damage the tank.

https://transportevolved.com/2014/11/06/electric-car-rapid-charging-need-know/
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on June 08, 2019, 08:09:25 PM
For the majority of motorists 80% is probably all they need. 100 miles after a half hour charge. That'll do me.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: richardfrost on June 08, 2019, 11:43:39 PM
For the majority of motorists 80% is probably all they need. 100 miles after a half hour charge. That'll do me.

It’s a 100 mile round trip to the wife’s mother’s house. And the she always wants to be taken somewhere. Probably a fine city car but not much use for a commute or general driving.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on July 02, 2019, 01:41:14 PM
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: cornishpasty on July 02, 2019, 05:01:13 PM
The 'e' will be a design icon I'm sure. But it's crucially not affordable for most. The warning bells started to jangle when the presenter said that Honda had brought him over. Bought would be the correct word !
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on July 02, 2019, 05:43:51 PM
Bought would be the correct word !
I would  strongly dispute that. Robert LLewellyn Is very much for electric vehicles but dead against manufacturers trying to "buy" his influence.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: peteo48 on July 02, 2019, 10:36:23 PM
Dead right Jocko - I think Robert Llewellyn is a pretty straight guy.

I like the look of the Honda E. It looks a cut above some of the other offerings but here's the thing - the price is going to be north of £25,000.

Is it the case that car manufacturers quite literally don't want to sell these cars in any great numbers because they have so much capital tied up in ICE's? I simply refuse to believe that a battery, a motor and a reduction gear is more costly to produce than an Internal Combustion Engine and gearbox. I can get a top of the range Jazz for £19,000 (ish) and a Corsa or a Fiesta for a lot less than that.

I find it difficult believe that they couldn't knock out an EV for, say, £15,000.

Interested to hear from anybody who knows any actual reason for the high prices of EV's other than to deter too many people from getting on board.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on July 03, 2019, 01:47:57 PM
I think the markup in cost is to fund future development. The manufacturers know they have to get better batteries and more efficient systems so the early adopters have to pay that price. No motor manufacturer sees ICE as the future, no matter how much they wish it were the case. A new 1904 Ford Model B cost $2,000 ($56,000 at today's prices). All to fund development.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: peteo48 on July 03, 2019, 02:17:29 PM
I think the markup in cost is to fund future development. The manufacturers know they have to get better batteries and more efficient systems so the early adopters have to pay that price. No motor manufacturer sees ICE as the future, no matter how much they wish it were the case. A new 1904 Ford Model B cost $2,000 ($56,000 at today's prices). All to fund development.

Yes - I can see that and I agree that development costs have to be factored in. That said, they will presumably want a phased elimination of ICE cars to protect existing investments. At north of £25,000 and more probably £30,000 this little car remains strictly one for the better off.

I'd have to remortgage the house!
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on July 03, 2019, 02:19:18 PM
I'd have to mortgage my house for a new Jazz! I don't think my landlord would be very pleased though.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: peteo48 on July 03, 2019, 02:49:15 PM
We could always try money laudering :P
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on July 03, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Here we go, right off thread, but I have considered that. If I had a connection, that wanted money laundered, I would be up for it.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: John Ratsey on July 03, 2019, 08:36:02 PM
Even though Lithium battery prices have dropped a long way in recent years (see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/battery-reality-there-s-nothing-better-than-lithium-ion-coming-soon (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/battery-reality-there-s-nothing-better-than-lithium-ion-coming-soon)) at $200/kWh then the vehicle contains about $7k of batteries. Add on the costs of battery management (charging, thermal management ...) then the battery pack cost could come to $10k which would mean £10k once taxes are included. Add in allowances for R&D and risk (new technology might have big warranty claims if something isn't right) and the price isn't padded as much as it initially looks. There might also be design aspects such as the real battery capacity being more than mentioned both to allow for wear (loss of capacity) and keeping the charging and discharging away from the extremes of the possible charge range as that's where much of the wear takes place.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on July 04, 2019, 03:12:41 PM
Renault have just announced prices for the new 50 kWh Zoe, but more importantly they are dropping the entry level 22 kWh and are now supplying the 40 kWh for the price of the deleted 22 kWh Zoe. Battery packs can be leased or bought outright. It is still expensive compared with comparable ICE cars but the prices are coming down.
It will certainly put pressure on Honda and the price of the upcoming Honda e with its 36 kWh battery. Will they try and compete with Renault's price?

Nice report on the Honda e here: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/honda/e-electric-ev/ (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/honda/e-electric-ev/)
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 10, 2019, 05:42:42 PM
I see the new Honda e is to start from £26,160.
You can now configure your own!

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html?ck=17422115&utm_source=clickthrough&prop=Eproto&campaign=launch&utm_content=discover#configurator/hub (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html?ck=17422115&utm_source=clickthrough&prop=Eproto&campaign=launch&utm_content=discover#configurator/hub)
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 08:47:01 AM
I've picked my one.

(https://i.imgur.com/1ts67ng.jpg)

It is only available in Black, Gray, Blue, Yellow, and White. Yellow is the standard colour. The rest attract a £500 premium.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: guest4871 on September 11, 2019, 10:35:49 AM
I've picked my one.

(https://i.imgur.com/1ts67ng.jpg)

It is only available in Black, Gray, Blue, Yellow, and White. Yellow is the standard colour. The rest attract a £500 premium.

I must say that looks almost identical to my first Honda Civic in 1979!
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 10:55:04 AM
Almost identical apart from the smoothed edges.

(https://i.redd.it/h9u0anb40zk21.jpg)
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Kenneve on September 11, 2019, 11:12:43 AM
Not happy at all with the single pedal control.

After 65 years of driving, it is an automatic reaction to step on the brake in an emergency situation.
Can you imagine the result of doing that in a single pedal car? it's the the exact opposite to a conventional car and in my opinion extremely dangerous!
What happens if you slide your foot sideways off the pedal, do you get maximum braking, limited maybe by ABS?

As Jocko say's, it's a throwback to 1979 or thereabouts, too expensive, not impressed at all.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Ralph on September 11, 2019, 12:53:17 PM
Not happy at all with the single pedal control.

After 65 years of driving, it is an automatic reaction to step on the brake in an emergency situation.
Can you imagine the result of doing that in a single pedal car? it's the the exact opposite to a conventional car and in my opinion extremely dangerous!
What happens if you slide your foot sideways off the pedal, do you get maximum braking, limited maybe by ABS?

As Jocko say's, it's a throwback to 1979 or thereabouts, too expensive, not impressed at all.

I don’t know about the Honda but the Nissan Leaf single pedal system still has a separate brake pedal for emergencies and stopping quickly. It can also be turned off and used like a conventional automatic
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 01:39:25 PM
Yes, it has a brake pedal.

(https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/honda-e-2121.jpg?itok=8so2gu2y)

One pedal is something you can switch on. It is just extreme regeneration. If you want to stop quick you just apply the brake as normal.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 01:52:38 PM
It is certainly a powerful little car. It has more horsepower than the Jazz Sport 1.5, but more than twice the torque, which is what really counts for driving pleasure. With more weight in the Honda e, some of that advantage will be soaked up, but with an extremely low centre of gravity and rear wheel drive it should be a joy to throw round corners. Think BMW 118i.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: richardfrost on September 11, 2019, 02:41:09 PM
It is certainly a powerful little car. It has more horsepower than the Jazz Sport 1.5, but more than twice the torque, which is what really counts for driving pleasure. With more weight in the Honda e, some of that advantage will be soaked up, but with an extremely low centre of gravity and rear wheel drive it should be a joy to throw round corners. Think BMW 118i.
Presumably all whilst playing the sound of a throaty V8 out of the hifi !
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 02:46:52 PM
I prefer Southern Rock myself.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: John Ratsey on September 11, 2019, 03:11:34 PM
Not happy at all with the single pedal control.
I noticed what looked like a switch for this next to the parking brake.

I agree about having automatic reactions. I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.

There's a lot a like about the Honda e except that it's too small for my needs both in terms of range and boot capacity. I hope that some of the features such as cameras instead of mirrors (less aerodynamic drag) carry over into the other new models. Have Honda had the gumption to realise that with front and rear view cameras on board they've got built-in dashcam capability and only need to provide a place for the user to add a memory card?
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: guest4871 on September 11, 2019, 05:24:18 PM

I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.


I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: culzean on September 11, 2019, 05:47:31 PM

I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.


I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.

Changing over from older British motorbikes to Japanese bikes was even worse - the gearlever on older bikes is on RH side and on Jap bikes and newer bikes it is on the left ( and vice versa with rear brake lever ), so if you have both old and new bikes and ride both it can be interesting.....  and the gearbox on track bikes is up into first and then down for higher gears,  on road bikes it is the the opposite.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Ralph on September 11, 2019, 06:05:04 PM

I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.


I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.

Changing over from older British motorbikes to Japanese bikes was even worse - the gearlever on older bikes is on RH side and on Jap bikes and newer bikes it is on the left ( and vice versa with rear brake lever ), so if you have both old and new bikes and ride both it can be interesting.....  and the gearbox on track bikes is up into first and then down for higher gears,  on road bikes it is the the opposite.

I used to have an old vellocette which was the same not only was the gear lever on the RH side it was also upside down it was fun switching between that and my Honda 250RS
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 07:06:57 PM
I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.
On older cars I have had wipers and indicators switching sides. If my wipers are on in the dry I am turning left!
My FIAT 126 light switch went Side/Dip/Main beam. The first night, on a winding country road, I switched from Dip to Side instead of Main. At 50 mph. Heart stops for a second! Next day I switched the Main and Dip wiring over.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Kenneve on September 11, 2019, 09:01:20 PM
I've been through the brochure again and nowhere can I find any reference to a brake pedal.
The description quite clearly says, Single Pedal Operation, push the pedal to go, take your foot off to brake.
It's certainly not, single pedal operation, if there are two pedals.
As I said before, it's extremely dangerous, and I won't be buying one, unless of course I've missed something?
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 09:10:53 PM
(https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/honda-e-2122.jpg?itok=7RmQgmPR)

Forgive me if I am wrong, but the picture (albeit LHD), shows a small accelerator pedal, a larger brake, and a foot rest for the left foot. As does the previous photo I linked to.

In One Pedal operation the car can be driven using just the accelerator pedal, though it is neither mandatory or necessary. The new Nissan Leaf is the same, if I am not mistaken.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 11, 2019, 09:15:01 PM
A brilliant section here on the Nissan Leaf E-pedal mode (their name for one pedal operation). See under "Don't touch the brakes".

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2018-nissan-leaf-update-e-pedal/ (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2018-nissan-leaf-update-e-pedal/)
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Kenneve on September 11, 2019, 09:22:43 PM
Well Jocko, I have to accept that your photo does indeed show two pedals.
That being the case, how can the car, possibly be described as One Pedal Operation?
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: springswood on September 12, 2019, 08:06:22 AM
On those brilliant (I think) camera wing mirrors, in the video it says they weren't developed for the e, so there's a good chance they'll appear on other models.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 12, 2019, 08:53:57 AM
That being the case, how can the car, possibly be described as One Pedal Operation?
Well it can be operated by one pedal, if you switch that option on. You just disregard the brake pedal. The spec doesn't say it is "solely One Pedal".
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: John Ratsey on September 13, 2019, 06:26:10 PM
I reckon there is a switch - see the interior photos in the configurator.
(https://configurator-images.honda.eu/content/dam/configuratorHub/honda-e-2020/keyfeatures/Honda-e-keyfeatures-singlepedalcontrol.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/extrasmall.jpg)
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 13, 2019, 07:39:59 PM
Certainly looks like it. I know most EV's have switchable levels of Regeneration, so I hope the Honda e does too. And a hardware switch. Not something that requires accessing the software via a screen. I would want to be able to easily switch between different levels on the fly. At the moment I can select Neutral, which would be the equivalent of no regen, for long gentle descents. And various levels of regen for steeper slopes. One Pedal operation would be great for  busy town driving. I would love one, but doubt I may be spared long enough to get one.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Kenneve on September 13, 2019, 07:42:55 PM
What happens when you are in one pedal mode and you need to make an emergency stop.
The use of a brake pedal then, cannot be described as one pedal operation?
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 13, 2019, 09:12:39 PM
I know most EV's have switchable levels of Regeneration, so I hope the Honda e does too. And a hardware switch.
I see it is done by a paddle. That is a good thing.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 13, 2019, 09:13:37 PM
What happens when you are in one pedal mode and you need to make an emergency stop.
The use of a brake pedal then, cannot be described as one pedal operation?
Yes it is. The brake pedal.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Ralph on September 14, 2019, 11:27:13 AM
This is the closest look video I have seen so far
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Kenneve on September 14, 2019, 12:45:10 PM
Very interesting video and a quite impressive specification.
Pity there was no mention of the Single Pedal Operation?
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 14, 2019, 12:45:45 PM
This one is quite good too.

Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 14, 2019, 04:47:00 PM
The German guy talks about the electric motor being under the "hood", but it is not. It is in the rear, as the "Fully Charged" video, and this older video makes clear.

Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Ralph on September 14, 2019, 05:22:53 PM
The German guy talks about the electric motor being under the "hood", but it is not. It is in the rear, as the "Fully Charged" video, and this older video makes clear.


Yeah I thought that it also explains why the boot is so small, too small for my liking.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on September 14, 2019, 06:04:52 PM
The car will be perfect for my needs, but I realise it will not suit everyone. For 99.9% of my motoring, a two seater is all I require. As for boot space, if it holds my shopping then it is big enough for me. The boot of my Jazz is full of empty supermarket trolley bags, and most of the time I just lay the shopping on the back seat, on my way home from the store! I would have an MX5 if I could get in and out of it!!!
Robert Llewellyn certainly likes the One Pedal option. And the performance. What I cannot understand, is why the entire roof is glass when you can only see out of one small section? Perhaps it is simpler, and allows a smooth, aerodynamic roof.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on January 29, 2020, 09:02:29 PM
Looks like it will be a car for the few rather than the many. A bit too nerdy for me and even my shopping would struggle with the tiny boot. Most of the UK pre-orders are for London. And at £28660 you would need London Allowance to pay for it.

Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: madasafish on January 30, 2020, 12:45:08 PM
Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: ColinS on January 30, 2020, 01:15:37 PM
Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
Don't you keeps your Bees in your bonnet? ;)
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on January 30, 2020, 03:26:12 PM
That's culzean!
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: culzean on January 30, 2020, 04:00:23 PM
Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
Don't you keeps your Bees in your bonnet? ;)


That's culzean!

no chance of getting golf clubs in the boot then ?
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: RichardA on February 13, 2020, 08:23:23 PM
Honda e review from Autocar:

Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: madasafish on February 14, 2020, 09:48:09 AM
Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
Don't you keeps your Bees in your bonnet? ;)

Of course: I am a Scot...
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: olduser1 on February 14, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
A better package is coming later this year from Vw up Skoda City Seat Mii ......
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on February 14, 2020, 02:44:14 PM
The new Corsa-e looks the dogs. Starts at £26490. Expected from April.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: richardfrost on February 14, 2020, 03:03:53 PM
Volkswagen's e-Up will sell massively in Yorkshire.
Title: Re: Honda e
Post by: Jocko on October 01, 2020, 10:19:11 PM
Good Honda e video.

This will be my first EV.