Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 7455 times)

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #345 on: October 13, 2017, 01:12:11 PM »
The elephant in the room is that the world's population has increased from 1 billion to 7 billion in 200 years and will increase to 15 billion in another 100 years.

Levels of material consumption (and thus pollution waste) have increased by many multiples of that.

The UK population has increased 50% since WW2.

Some (most) African countries populations have increased (exponentially) 3 times in 40 years.

Marx had an answer to income distribution.

You can be assured the investors in AI (which, like electric cars, is by no means new) will only do it for the money.

I have always said that over population will destroy the planet long before CO2 / climate change / global warming or whatever it is called these days.  The problem for me is that although global leaders are happy enough to bang on about CO2 etc, (mainly because carbon is taxable) they go a bit quiet about controlling population which is undoubtedly the cause of land degradation, loss of habitat for wild animals,  poverty, famine and drought (caused by deforestation and overgrazing of habitat by domesticated animals - cows, goats etc.)

China has been roundly criticised for imposing a single child policy in the 60's, but their decision was very far sighted in the light of present day world population, but common-sense things that are easy for a dictatorship to do are hard to do in democracies with their pressure groups and lobbyists.

I will take climate change debate seriously when it includes measures to reduce world population growth,  until they we are just tinkering around the edges, and certain people are making lots of money from climate change scare tactics.

Bio-fuel are responsible for the loss off many thousands of square miles of rainforest, and growing corn and sugar cane to make vehicle fuel suggests to me that the inmates have finally taken over the asylum.

EV's wont save the planet but birth control just might.

I find it very ironic that as population explodes, computers and AI are destroying jobs,  a real double whammy.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 01:24:50 PM by culzean »
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culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #346 on: October 13, 2017, 01:22:25 PM »
And I see we will no longer be able to have Gas at home (2050) to meet emissions rules!

Using gas for heating and cooking should be banned by 2050, the Government said yesterday. (Daily Mail) I know but it's in print.



Gas burnt in a domestic heating boiler is now over 90% efficient,  if you burn the same gas in a power station and use the electricity to heat the same home the efficiency drops to about 50% - what a waste of precious gas.  Unfortunately the same bureaucrats that convinced everyone that diesel and 100watt kettles would save the planet are still running the show, and still just as capable of making stupid decisions.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #347 on: October 13, 2017, 02:27:04 PM »
Gulp! Future is looking pretty bleak, i think I'll hang myself now.

Don't forget to use low carbon rope made using local labour from a 'fairtrade' sustainable environmentally friendly source, transported to UK on a low pollution sailing vessel (feel free to add any buzz words I have forgotten)
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zzaj

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #348 on: October 13, 2017, 02:50:00 PM »
And I see we will no longer be able to have Gas at home (2050) to meet emissions rules!

Using gas for heating and cooking should be banned by 2050, the Government said yesterday. (Daily Mail) I know but it's in print.



Gas burnt in a domestic heating boiler is now over 90% efficient,  if you burn the same gas in a power station and use the electricity to heat the same home the efficiency drops to about 50% - what a waste of precious gas.  Unfortunately the same bureaucrats that convinced everyone that diesel and 100watt kettles would save the planet are still running the show, and still just as capable of making stupid decisions.

Note "should".

If a kettle (or vacuum cleaner) needs so much power to complete a given quantity of work, doesn't a lower wattage appliance take commensurately longer to complete the task, thus no energy saving - like with low energy lamp bulbs, you need more central heating to heat a house to a given temperature? (And what is energy saving with central heating, when once upon a time the world lived happily (even gratefully) with one fire and thicker clothes).

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #349 on: October 13, 2017, 03:24:02 PM »

Note "should".

If a kettle (or vacuum cleaner) needs so much power to complete a given quantity of work, doesn't a lower wattage appliance take commensurately longer to complete the task, thus no energy saving - like with low energy lamp bulbs, you need more central heating to heat a house to a given temperature? (And what is energy saving with central heating, when once upon a time the world lived happily (even gratefully) with one fire and thicker clothes).

What you say is true, the total amount of energy required to raise the temperature of say 1 litre of water from 10degC to 100degC is the same whatever the wattage of the kettle (except if wattage is too low the heat is escaping faster than it is being added and water will never boil),  but in order to reduce the peak  load on our sagging (read renewables) electrical supply they think it is OK to take 10 minutes instead of 2 to boil, - in fact numpties that they are they have probably convinced themselves that it is saving energy.   The latest EU initiative is to introduce low temperature teabags by 2021.

Yeah, I agree about replacing heat that used to be given out by domestic filament bulbs (lights that are mainly used in the winter) with extra gas used by central heating,  The  heat emitted from filament bulbs is only a problem when they are outdoors, where heat is entirely wasted, and the light from a filament bulb is much nicer and more mellow than LED output,  and as for compact flourescent bulbs, they were hopeless, did not have a long life and very polluting to make.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 03:26:14 PM by culzean »
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peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #350 on: October 13, 2017, 03:29:19 PM »
I agree with Culzean about population growth and I don't know why some people never mention it in the mix of policies that are needed to enable us to survive on the planet. Regardless of your take on Climate Change there is a resource and space issue at the very least.

On the low carbon rope, I read somewhere that you can now buy compostable jeans!

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #351 on: October 13, 2017, 04:12:59 PM »
My jeans are compostable, especially just before they go in the wash!

The only way to reduce the world's population, unless you go for draconian measures such as compulsory sterilisation or limiting family size (as China tried), is to make contraceptives freely and readily available to all. Most counties that are contributing to the rise in population are poor, and with little access to contraception for all. Most people would happily have smaller families, it is just that they don't have a lot of choice.
The population of the UK is growing, but mainly from immigration rather than by births. There are about 100.000 more births than deaths in the UK each year yet migration increased the population by 273,000 (2015/16).

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #352 on: October 13, 2017, 07:08:55 PM »
Which begs the question, where is the money for a citizens income coming from ?

Well, it's not going to come from taxing working people, because there won't be many of those left.

Most people think this is all in the future, but we are already well along this road. There are millions of jobs which can be done by machine now, and only exist due to subsidy of below subsistence wages. Sooner or later, even these low wages, and the other costs of employment, will exceed the cost of the technology to replace them.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 07:15:13 PM by sparky Paul »

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #353 on: October 13, 2017, 07:33:03 PM »
If citizens don't have a wage, who will buy the stuff the AI makes? If they cannot sell, how do they buy raw materials? Perhaps everything will be self levelling. Maybe governments will have to tax industry at a high enough rate that they will then be able to give a wage to citizens. All I can say is, I am glad I won't be around long enough to find out.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #354 on: October 13, 2017, 11:59:57 PM »
All I can say is, I am glad I won't be around long enough to find out.

You never know Jocko, it might come sooner than you think.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #355 on: October 14, 2017, 08:51:21 AM »
Love him or hate him, Jeremy Corbyn has just announced some innovative ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41614820

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #356 on: October 14, 2017, 09:34:37 AM »
Love him or hate him, Jeremy Corbyn has just announced some innovative ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41614820

He is right to criticise Amazon, Uber Yodel, Deliveroo and such companies as we have had parcels delivered after 8pm by very disgruntled and harrassed looking drivers. As for who owns and controls robots it is normally the person who pays the bills that owns and controls something,  but in Corbynworld, who knows. 

A company I was tech manager for used to manufacture semi-automated and fully automated battery assembly lines,  we sold machines to China and you would have thought that with their excess of labour they would want the manual and semi-auto kit,  but no,  they went for the fully auto equipment,  mainly I feel to get their hands on up to date stuff to copy but  they never made anyone redundant at the Peoples #32 battery factory,  the workers took it in turns to press the start button each day and then went back to their tea drinking.  As their labour costs rose they would have to make people redundant.  I feel that Corbyn has such a communist / socialist mindset to have the robots and not sack anyone - and micro-manage industry from his political chair - the poor guy has no concept of how business works (like most of our politicians sadly,  who are either trained as lawyers or accountants).  The people who take the risks / foot the bills say what happens, not some wooly headed politician.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #357 on: October 14, 2017, 12:16:42 PM »
Quite some while ago when I had a functioning brain, I tried to better myself with a degree. My first year was dealing with Technology in the form of power generation, people and such allied bits. One thing we did was an experiment on heat. Put one person in a room at a certain temperature, then increase the number of people and the temperature would rise.  So perhaps the thicker jumper is not such a bad idea IF it saves X amount of energy.  It was there and I know things have improved it was stated that production of electricity was not really cost effective. Forgive my memory but I seem to think it was worked out on a ton of coal or X number of cu ft of gas and what came out was something like 30% of input. I am pretty sure those figures are now out of date. However once you had the electricity it was cheaper to move it around the country.
zzaj   questions  this stupid EU rule about lower wattage kettles etc. I have forgotten the formula but if you use less power you need a greater quantity to achieve the end aim.
As to contraceptives to the masses, surely it is not the availability of  contraceptives that is the problem it is the 'need' to produce a son and the more children you have is wealth. Education is what they need and perhaps that nice Mr Blair should have gone out to Africa and the Indian sub continent and banged the drum there. I am purposely not incurring some racial discrimination act by not actually mentioning those people who live on that sub continent that killed and maimed many of our very brave military. YET they
still come here and plague us for housing, money etc. Work you must be joking and to really stuff myself, Nepal, sent their young men to fight for us and all we have done is drop fertilizer from a great height BUT we can give Bangladeshi's money and a hole in the wall card to be used in their own country. Perhaps IF we woke up and used some of the money here to update our electricity production our EV's will be a thing of fact.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #358 on: October 14, 2017, 05:03:15 PM »
Love him or hate him, Jeremy Corbyn has just announced some innovative ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41614820

Somebody needs to start thinking differently.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #359 on: October 14, 2017, 05:18:42 PM »
"Let workers control robots" Says Corbyn.

A way to ensure no-one invests in robots in UK..

Robots do jobs better than workers - not all jobs but some.

Moronic is a kind word to describe that policy.

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