Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: mcmurpty110661 on June 28, 2018, 08:04:52 AM
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Hi Ive just joined this forum,Im not a boy racer by any stretch of the imagination, but although I love my Jazz mark 3 , just amazed I could only get it in a 1.3 , I know they now have he Jazz a 1.5 but I was to early for that , amazed they left it so long to give you a choice of a bigger engine , they would have sold a lot more I believe given the new super engine fiesta is a direct competitor and I almost chose a fiesta foo oomph , but settled on the jazz for reliability , so now I want the 1.5 but they attach the word sport to it and pile on the £sss and the ordinary jazz is dear enough , so think the sport is out of my reach , honda are so expensive and I think they play on the loyalty of customers , i.e theyll buy it anyway so why give them a bargain.
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Welcome to the forum, and thanks for starting what could be a great discussion.
It is a bit odd that the 1.5 is only available with lower spec trim but I assume they are targeting what they think of as boy racers and concluded that more sensible drivers wouldn't be interested. It isn't as simple as just sticking a 1.5 in an EX there is a cost to them doing that and they may have decided that there wouldn't be enough interest to justify it.
To be honest I can see their point - the 1.3 is no slouch as long as you work the accelerator pedal. And I don't mean you have to floor it at every opportunity - you just have to get it above 3000 rpm. I've had three 1.3 Jazzes now and have never felt it was under powered. Sure I'm not going to out drag a true boy racer but most drivers just don't use what they have anyway. Most of the time my 'brisk' acceleration will be faster than what anyone else is doing and I certainly have enough get up and go to avoid holding people up.
I can 'mix it' with rush hour traffic and even busy motorway traffic without feeling inadequate. On the way home I have to climb up a steep dual carriageway for a mile and sometimes scream up with a group of like minded cars. If the cars in front are proper 'power demons' like BMWs or Audis then, yes, I'll fall behind. But any more 'normal' car I'll stick with all the way and often end up pushing them to one side when I decide to be naughty and keep going beyond 70mph.
I think the 1.5 engine would be fun, especially with the CVT, but I don't think it's needed. The 1.3 engine provides plenty of power for sensible driving and even allows for a little 'fun' occasionally.
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Even my old 1.2 can hold its own in normal traffic. Away from the lights I am as quick as every other normal driver. I could be even quicker if the gears were a bit better spaced and my clutch wasn't such a pig.
The number of times I try to change up from 5th, indicates that another gear would have been welcome, even on the smallest and least powerful of the bunch. I seldom ever exceed 4,000 rpm. The highest I have recorded is 4,377 and I think that was on a misjudged down shift.
Powerful cars are fun to drive, but normal motorists only use that power once in a blue moon and as andruec says, I am sure Honda have done their market research most diligently. I think the 1.5 Sport may be a loss leader, hoping to tempt the younger set to the marque. Not everyone can afford a Civic Type R!
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I guess the issue might be what the motoring pundits call "low down grunt" - the Jazz doesn't have a turbo and isn't available in diesel (not having a diesel is turning out to be quite far sighted in view of the air quality issues).
I'm surprised they haven't tried the 1.0 litre turbo that's in the new Civic. I've had one of those as a loan car and that certainly does have low down grunt.
But I guess we are becoming used to cars that accelerate easily with minimal throttle input. Now I've got a CVT I'm learning to open the throttle much wider than I used too and the car responds well to that with no noticeable increase in mpg. The fact that, at 40, it seems to burble along at not much faster than idle speed must help counteract any increase in throttle opening to gain acceleration.
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I would have preferred a 1.5 SE if it existed, as it is I have a 1.5 SE with a boy racer plastic bodykit and a few extra bits. You have to work at driving a 1.3, a 1.5 feels effortless in comparison, especially with a CVT. The facelift modifications improve the overall "feel" of the car as well. I have decided that this car is a "keeper" I think it is that good. I got rid of my 1.3 earlier than expected, the only reason was the engine.
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Welcome to the forum, and thanks for starting what could be a great discussion.
It is a bit odd that the 1.5 is only available with lower spec trim but I assume they are targeting what they think of as boy racers and concluded that more sensible drivers wouldn't be interested. It isn't as simple as just sticking a 1.5 in an EX there is a cost to them doing that and they may have decided that there wouldn't be enough interest to justify it.
To be honest I can see their point - the 1.3 is no slouch as long as you work the accelerator pedal. And I don't mean you have to floor it at every opportunity - you just have to get it above 3000 rpm. I've had three 1.3 Jazzes now and have never felt it was under powered. Sure I'm not going to out drag a true boy racer but most drivers just don't use what they have anyway. Most of the time my 'brisk' acceleration will be faster than what anyone else is doing and I certainly have enough get up and go to avoid holding people up.
I can 'mix it' with rush hour traffic and even busy motorway traffic without feeling inadequate. On the way home I have to climb up a steep dual carriageway for a mile and sometimes scream up with a group of like minded cars. If the cars in front are proper 'power demons' like BMWs or Audis then, yes, I'll fall behind. But any more 'normal' car I'll stick with all the way and often end up pushing them to one side when I decide to be naughty and keep going beyond 70mph.
I think the 1.5 engine would be fun, especially with the CVT, but I don't think it's needed. The 1.3 engine provides plenty of power for sensible driving and even allows for a little 'fun' occasionally.
+1
1.3 is more than adequate for most people, and offering a limited range of engines keeps prices down. I did prefer the engine characteristics of Mk1 8 valve twin spark engine though (more tractable lower down) and got really good mpg from ours, better than mpg we get from wifes Mk2.
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I am sure we have all driven or owned cars with engines with better driving characteristics than the 1.3. The bottom line is the 1.3 is configured to be a hybrid engine assisted by an electric motor. I hope whoever decided to use it on its own has been sacked. Honda ended up with a good car spoilt by a poor engine choice.
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The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills. A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model. You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines. As soon as you change to third, it just dies.
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I would have preferred a 1.5 SE if it existed, as it is I have a 1.5 SE with a boy racer plastic bodykit and a few extra bits. You have to work at driving a 1.3, a 1.5 feels effortless in comparison, especially with a CVT. The facelift modifications improve the overall "feel" of the car as well. I have decided that this car is a "keeper" I think it is that good. I got rid of my 1.3 earlier than expected, the only reason was the engine.
I think the phrase "You have to work at driving a 1.3" may well hit the nail on the head. My own driving means that this isn't an issue - pootling round town with the odd motorway cruise. The 1.3 does all this more than adequately. I've often said, though, that I'd want something more powerful if I did a much bigger mileage covering a much bigger variety of roads.
Looks like the 1.5 completes the range quite well.
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The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills. A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model. You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines. As soon as you change to third, it just dies.
I don't find that at all, and going over 3000 rpm is not 'revving the guts out of it'. Shropshire has some pretty good hills (and we have been all over Scotland, Lake district, Derbyshire, up Porlock in Somerset and all around Devon and Cornwall).
One hill near us will see you doing about 90mph if you coast down it - I have seen 90mph going up the same hill in my wifes Jazz as part of an Italian tuneup (don't tell her though, she rarely uses more than 3000 revs).
100 ponies is certainly not gutless.
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The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills. A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model. You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines. As soon as you change to third, it just dies.
Well if you will insist on using last century gear selection technology...
I never have to reach for the gear lever no matter how steep the hill and most of the time I'm not even aware that the gear changes are happening ;)
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The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills. A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model. You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines. As soon as you change to third, it just dies.
I don't find that at all, and going over 3000 rpm is not 'revving the guts out of it'. Shropshire has some pretty good hills (and we have been all over Scotland, Lake district, Derbyshire, up Porlock in Somerset and all around Devon and Cornwall).
One hill near us will see you doing about 90mph if you coast down it - I have seen 90mph going up the same hill in my wifes Jazz as part of an Italian tuneup (don't tell her though, she rarely uses more than 3000 revs).
100 ponies is certainly not gutless.
The hill out of Shaftesbury going towards Blandford in Dorset is a 40mph speed limit, which cars regularily attain. I have to get close to 5000rpm in second to achieve that. At 3000rpm (which I agree isn't reving the guts out of it), I am doing 25mph. If I change up to third at 40mph, it just dies.
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The issue I have with the 1.3 is hills. A particularly steep one will force you to use second in a MT model. You either drive up it at 20mph or rev the guts out of it to avoid holding up cars with propoer engines. As soon as you change to third, it just dies.
Well if you will insist on using last century gear selection technology...
I never have to reach for the gear lever no matter how steep the hill and most of the time I'm not even aware that the gear changes are happening ;)
Yeah my next one will be CVT. Hopefully a Jazz 1.5 EX but if not available, then an HR-V.
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The hill out of Shaftesbury going towards Blandford in Dorset is a 40mph speed limit, which cars regularily attain. I have to get close to 5000rpm in second to achieve that. At 3000rpm (which I agree isn't reving the guts out of it), I am doing 25mph. If I change up to third at 40mph, it just dies.
That sounds terrible. Any of the main road hills around here I can happily climb, at 40 mph, in 4th and often in 5th. There is a particularly steep hill, coming off the Mossmorran Roundabout and heading towards Auchtertool (B925), and I can give way at the roundabout and still happily climb the hill in 4th.
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The hill out of Shaftesbury going towards Blandford in Dorset is a 40mph speed limit, which cars regularily attain. I have to get close to 5000rpm in second to achieve that. At 3000rpm (which I agree isn't reving the guts out of it), I am doing 25mph. If I change up to third at 40mph, it just dies.
That sounds terrible. Any of the main road hills around here I can happily climb, at 40 mph, in 4th and often in 5th. There is a particularly steep hill, coming off the Mossmorran Roundabout and heading towards Auchtertool (B925), and I can give way at the roundabout and still happily climb the hill in 4th.
Don't try that hill in fourth in a 1.3! I was on that road yesterday.
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The A55 near Rhaullt (https://goo.gl/maps/vBYR5MfsLnG2) in North Wales is a steep, long section of dual carriageway, it actually has a crawler lane. If I remember correctly with CC set at 60mph the revs on my CVT car climb steadily from 2,000 to 3,000 then jump to 4,000 and climb to 4,500 before dropping back to 4,000 half way up then climbing up to 4,500 for the summit before dropping back 2,000.
Shortly after I bought the car I drove it and set the CC to 80 to see what happened. I don't remember what the RPMs did but the car maintained 80mph all the way up. One of my previous Jazz did the same at 90mph for a laugh. That was several years ago and the only thing I remember is my girlfriend at the time telling my pet budgie to flap his wings just in case. From what I remember it managed to hold 90mph but only just. Damn' budgie clearly wasn't trying :)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dJxndpYLoV6wg4Dk6
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Know that stretch quite well although not been up it for a bit. I'm interested to see how the CVT manages a hill in cruise control.
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Don't try that hill in fourth in a 1.3! I was on that road yesterday.
I take it that is due to the Atkinson Cycle. Surely, the pre-Atkinson engines were a lot more versatile at lower revs?
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Don't try that hill in fourth in a 1.3! I was on that road yesterday.
I take it that is due to the Atkinson Cycle. Surely, the pre-Atkinson engines were a lot more versatile at lower revs?
I don't know, but would expect that to be correct. The 1.3 is plenty powerful enough for the car, it is the delivery of the power that is not suited to a non hybrid car. My 1960s MINI was about 30bhp in total so delivered properly the 100 bhp of the 1.3 should be adequate.
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I traded in a Mk. 3 Jazz CVT for an HR-V CVT. The Jazz was economical but whenever I tried to accelerate the engine revved above 3,000 rpm. This burst of power (and extra noise) meant I often found myself exceeding the speed limit and having to slow down. If, on the other hand, I was easy on the right pedal to avoid the engine shifting out of Atkinson cycle mode then any build-up of speed was painfully slow. After a year of putting up with this behaviour I opted for the more relaxed drive which the HR-V delivers very satisfactorily (and the 1.5 Jazz must provide even better as there's a bit less vehicle being moved by the same powertrain). A 1.5 Jazz SE would be a useful addition to Honda's line-up and provide the more relaxed driver experience without paying for the extra bling. I agree that the 1.3 engine would be a good choice if coupled with a hybrid system to provide the low end power.
Perhaps Honda were planning to put the 1.0 turbo into the Jazz but once they saw the real life fuel economy (and the extra emissions) they had a change of heart and opted for the HR-V drive-train (which must have needed minimal modifications given that the HR-V uses the Jazz platform). Honda didn't get something right with the Civic - see https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017 (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017) - the 1.0 turbo Civic is thirstier than the 1.5 turbo so it must be struggle to drive the 1.0 in an economical manner.
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Know that stretch quite well although not been up it for a bit. I'm interested to see how the CVT manages a hill in cruise control.
I remember it (just) from before the the DC was built. My parents have lived in Llandudno since before I left Polytechnic and I've travelled it four or five times a year for the last 30 years when visiting them. The DC is a big improvement (especially the Rhuallt section) but it can be a pain when it gets congested. I've never known a DC like it - vehicles travelling at 40/50 in lane one with plenty of room between them and vehicles in lane two travelling nose to tail at 60mph.
It'll be odd when my Dad finally passes. I'll no longer have any reason to travel that route. Hopefully he's got a few more years in him yet.
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Perhaps Honda were planning to put the 1.0 turbo into the Jazz but once they saw the real life fuel economy (and the extra emissions) they had a change of heart and opted for the HR-V drive-train (which must have needed minimal modifications given that the HR-V uses the Jazz platform). Honda didn't get something right with the Civic - see https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017 (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017) - the 1.0 turbo Civic is thirstier than the 1.5 turbo so it must be struggle to drive the 1.0 in an economical manner.
My brother was in today and is talking about buying a Jazz. I suggested he tries the 1.5 Sport. He would prefer a diesel (he currently has a 14 plate 320D xDrive Touring Estate, but fancies a "radical change"). My sister-in-law bought a 1.0 EcoBoost Fiesta, earlier this year. My brother says he loves it, and would have one in a minute, but the fuel consumption is terrible, struggling to get better than 40 mpg on a tankful of mixed driving motoring.
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Perhaps Honda were planning to put the 1.0 turbo into the Jazz but once they saw the real life fuel economy (and the extra emissions) they had a change of heart and opted for the HR-V drive-train (which must have needed minimal modifications given that the HR-V uses the Jazz platform). Honda didn't get something right with the Civic - see https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017 (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017) - the 1.0 turbo Civic is thirstier than the 1.5 turbo so it must be struggle to drive the 1.0 in an economical manner.
My brother was in today and is talking about buying a Jazz. I suggested he tries the 1.5 Sport. He would prefer a diesel (he currently has a 14 plate 320D xDrive Touring Estate, but fancies a "radical change"). My sister-in-law bought a 1.0 EcoBoost Fiesta, earlier this year. My brother says he loves it, and would have one in a minute, but the fuel consumption is terrible, struggling to get better than 40 mpg on a tankful of mixed driving motoring.
My Sport is giving low 40s in mixed use, last tankful 44.5 mpg. I must have been taking it easy!
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My Sport is giving low 40s in mixed use, last tankful 44.5 mpg. I must have been taking it easy!
Or maybe warmer weather, which appears to result in a substantial reduction in the fuel-guzzling engine warm-up period.
You shouldn't have much difficulty in getting 50 mpg or more from a tankful. I've just got home after a 2,000 mile trip to/from and around Scotland in my HR-V and 2003 miles using 165.7 litres indicates, by my reckoning, 55 mpg.
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I will be doing Scotland to London and back soon, that will be a good check over about 1,000 miles with a bit of running about included.
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My Sport is giving low 40s in mixed use, last tankful 44.5 mpg. I must have been taking it easy!
Or maybe warmer weather, which appears to result in a substantial reduction in the fuel-guzzling engine warm-up period.
You shouldn't have much difficulty in getting 50 mpg or more from a tankful. I've just got home after a 2,000 mile trip to/from and around Scotland in my HR-V and 2003 miles using 165.7 litres indicates, by my reckoning, 55 mpg.
There is another variable to consider with fuel, during the winter the fuel has more volatile components in it to assist it to evaporate in colder weather for starting and smooth running, in summer the mix is different with less volatility.
https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-reid-vapor-pressure
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I heard mention of 1.5 turbo the sport is non turbo in the jazz which i think is better due to long term reliability my daihatsu 1.3 turbo was water cooled but needed servicing more and oil cooled need oil changed more often although ford and other new 1lr turbos go longer on servicing i still wonder if them small engines will be as good in high miles as good old large engines as you need to rev them more.
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i still wonder if them small engines will be as good in high miles as good old large engines as you need to rev them more.
I have my doubts. They are too highly stressed for my liking. My biggest worry would be the longevity of the turbo.
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+1
Another reason I bought a jazz, no turbo!
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+1
Another reason I bought a jazz, no turbo!
+1
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+1
Another reason I bought a jazz, no turbo!
Hi sky got my pearl white jazz sport today cvt it does look good with the black wheels and black mirrors so im just looking at the handbook now and will keep you posted.
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+1
Another reason I bought a jazz, no turbo!
Hi sky got my pearl white jazz sport today cvt it does look good with the black wheels and black mirrors so im just looking at the handbook now and will keep you posted.
Excellent! I am sure you will enjoy it. Good luck with keeping it clean! ;D
This will help, it gives a silky Matt finish on the matt black plastic trim and will protect the paintwork. It worked well on my Sunset Orange and Skyride Blue cars.
http://www.tetrosyl.com/brands/no1-supergloss/
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+1
Another reason I bought a jazz, no turbo!
Hi sky got my pearl white jazz sport today cvt it does look good with the black wheels and black mirrors so im just looking at the handbook now and will keep you posted.
Excellent! I am sure you will enjoy it. Good luck with keeping it clean! ;D
This will help, it gives a silky Matt finish on the matt black plastic trim and will protect the paintwork. It worked well on my Sunset Orange and Skyride Blue cars.
http://www.tetrosyl.com/brands/no1-supergloss/
Many thanks sky your right about the white although i know someone with a pearl white toyota IQ and she told me hers does get dirty but its not as bad as some make out i used to have a vauxhall astra in white a while ago and the road salt that mixes with dirt was the worst thanks for the link i will try that what is your blue like to keep clean.
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I had black cars, and lived beside a factory that spewed white dust all over the town, until I bought a white car. Then I realised it was black dust! Best colour for cars seem to be nondescript, middle of the spectrum colours. I had a metallic greeny grey Carlton, that got washed every MOT time (if it is clean, how can they fail it?). It didn't show the dirt. All I ever did was wash the windows!
(https://i.imgur.com/RPgDeJe.jpg)
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It must have been MOT time when that photo was taken. Very shiny.
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Sunset Orange doesn't show the dirt either. It just becomes a bit less bright. I've never washed my car in the two and a half years I've owned it. The dealer washes it when it gets a service but that won't happen next year because I'll be taking it to an independant.
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It has only rained once since my orange (aka brown) car turned light blue so up to now it has only got dusty. The black wheels still get dirty though. :'(
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It must have been MOT time when that photo was taken. Very shiny.
I think that was when I first bought it. The "one" for the records.
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Sunset Orange doesn't show the dirt either. It just becomes a bit less bright. I've never washed my car in the two and a half years I've owned it. The dealer washes it when it gets a service but that won't happen next year because I'll be taking it to an independant.
United Utilities would applaud you. Just got an email from them asking us to economise. The wording's quite funny/ironic - in order to avoid a hosepipe ban we would be grateful if you didn't use hosepipes!
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Sunset Orange doesn't show the dirt either. It just becomes a bit less bright. I've never washed my car in the two and a half years I've owned it. The dealer washes it when it gets a service but that won't happen next year because I'll be taking it to an independant.
United Utilities would applaud you. Just got an email from them asking us to economise. The wording's quite funny/ironic - in order to avoid a hosepipe ban we would be grateful if you didn't use hosepipes!
Heh. So far here in the South Midlands there seems no indication of restrictions. I've been discussing it on another forum and according to the official government publication in May most of our aquifers were exceptionally full, with only one at 'normal' and rising steadily (apparently geography means it lags behind the others). Same deal with reservoirs with only one being below normal but even that was described as 'of no concern'.
Most of our water comes from underground so it's good to know there's plenty down there but they obviously lag behind surface rainfall and as we haven't had any rainfall for two months now I imagine that come winter they won't be looking so rosy.
Mind you the problems in NI and some in Northern England appear to be down to filtration and pipe capacity rather than lack of actual water which is a different problem.
But the golf courses around here are looking sad. My own had irrigation problems earlier this week so even the greens were suffering but hopefully they've fixed that. The one I'm at tomorrow is on the top of a hill and has sandy soil so I'm expecting everywhere except the tees and greens to be brown. Last time it was like that I got my longest drive ever - 310 yards if I remember correctly. A third of it was probably roll :)
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Yes - the problem here isn't empty reservoirs, it's getting the water round the system with the result that some areas have lost a significant amount of pressure at the tap.
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Yes - the problem here isn't empty reservoirs, it's getting the water round the system with the result that some areas have lost a significant amount of pressure at the tap.
Thread creep alert - how did we get from small engines to water shortages ?
Fresh water that is available to humans is a very scarce resource, less than 1% of the world's fresh water (or about 0.007% of all water on earth) is readily accessible for direct human use and of that 70% is needed by agriculture to grow our food.
Having lived in Africa and Australia we learned how to conserve water. In Australia there is a saying 'if it's yellow, let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down' (obviously to do with the toilet and the amount of water (about 10 litres) people use to flush a teacup (about a third to half a litre ) of urine down the toilet. Around 30% of the water used in a house is for flushing toilets, and reducing flushing to every second or third pee can reduce water usage a lot. We are lucky in UK that we get a reasonable amount of rain at a rate that means it can soak into our aquifers does not just all come at once and run off into rivers and the sea.
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We are very lucky, here in the UK, when it comes to water, and here in Scotland we get more than most. With the demise of our oil, perhaps in the future we can be a major exporter of water!
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Yes - the problem here isn't empty reservoirs, it's getting the water round the system with the result that some areas have lost a significant amount of pressure at the tap.
Thread creep alert - how did we get from small engines to water shortages ?
Fresh water that is available to humans is a very scarce resource, less than 1% of the world's fresh water (or about 0.007% of all water on earth) is readily accessible for direct human use and of that 70% is needed by agriculture to grow our food.
Having lived in Africa and Australia we learned how to conserve water. In Australia there is a saying 'if it's yellow, let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down' (obviously to do with the toilet and the amount of water (about 10 litres) people use to flush a teacup (about a third to half a litre ) of urine down the toilet. Around 30% of the water used in a house is for flushing toilets, and reducing flushing to every second or third pee can reduce water usage a lot. We are lucky in UK that we get a reasonable amount of rain at a rate that means it can soak into our aquifers does not just all come at once and run off into rivers and the sea.
Good points. The other way of looking at it is using 10 litres of clean drinking water to flush a cupful of urine down the pan. We do the mellow yellow thing.
Remember Donovan!