coolant change

[guest6133]

Have a 2002 Jazz purchased 2012.  Had previously been agent serviced and I assumed coolant maintained. Anyway seemed prudent to renew.

Existing was green stuff. Honda stuff very expensive but a simple drain and refill seemed acceptable using it. I decided to use conventional fluid which supposedly requires a full change. Removed the top hose at engine end (avoiding strain on radiator) and substituted a tall hose. Eventually found the block drain and succeeded in removing (not for the faint hearted). A lot more water exited. Replaced this plug three times and block refilled via the tall hose. Did not touch thermostat. First redrain  was still slightly green. Heater on full but I did not turn ign off and on. Refilled the whole system with plain water as a trial run but despite all only took about 3.6 litres. Where does the other alleged 1.6 (making 5.2 total) hide?

Is the little setscrew on head on right hand side of car a bleed?

I cannot imagine many troubling to find and remove the very inaccessible drain plug, which is almost impossible to view. Helluva tight. 19mm. Do not burr!

To acheive an ultimate 50/50  presumably I will need to refill with 2.6 litre  of neat additive.

What do others do??

[culzean]

I take the lazy way when changing coolant,  get 5 litres silicate free universal OAT from Halfords 50/50 mix,  open radiator cap and open tap in bottom of radiator (next to bottom hose) drain out what wants to come out (normally about 50% of total) and top up (if you want to be careful measure what comes out but don't let wife see you using her measuring jugs from kitchen).  Run it for a week and repeat, reckon you change at least 75% of coolant but without getting air-locks in heater etc.  It is the anti-corrosion additives that wear out,  so I reckon you are good for another 5 years at least.  The coolant in your car may now be a bit muddy (orange and green mixed) but trust you can put up with that, (I certainly can).  Actually the colour of coolant means nothing (except on very old cars where makers used special mixes to suit metals in their cooling systems),  colour is only there to show leaks.   

There are other threads on this forum about coolant (it has been covered exhaustively), I would search for them and read through.   A little know fact is that 50/50 gives best protection against freezing, it is not the case of 'the more concentrated the better' as you go below and above 50% the coolant will freeze sooner.

[guest1372]

Running it with the heater on should help get the extra coolant in, if you just let it idle until the fan comes on (at around 93°c) then when you top up the missing amount should hopefully find the places to hide.  Squeezing hoses has been known to help get rid of airlocks.  Just draining the radiator only is the conventional way, but as Culzean says this is really a refresh rather than a refill so may need doing more often than scheduled.

The capacity is only 3.6 litres including the 0.4 litre expansion tank according to spec, I think you may be double counting something.  The http://hondafitjazz.com manual seems to be missing this section but the French version has this page describing the process http://hondafitjazz.com/french/F00/HTML/L0/SAA2EL0A14400017301KBFT00.HTML  Translated without images

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TG

[VicW]

  A little know fact is that 50/50 gives best protection against freezing, it is not the case of 'the more concentrated the better' as you go below and above 50% the coolant will freeze sooner.

A side line to this thread.  We lived in Kuwait for three years and obviously freezing temperatures were not a problem.
The local water was sea water purified by electrolysis and it was not kind to car engines as it ate alloy components.
The answer was to use neat antifreeze in your car instead of normal coolant and change it annually.
New cars were OK but under bonnet temperatures where the daytime summer temperature was about 40C played havoc with rubber hoses so coolant loss was not unusual.
Batteries suffered abnormally under these conditions too.

Vic.

[guest6133]

Well I drained it again after running and still markedly green proving that despite all a lot remained, presumably the 1.6 litres which make up the handbook total of 5.2. litre. It seems that the ritual of removing thermostat is necessary to fully flush. When drained the radiator alone released just 1.8 litres. I have removed the tedious block drain yet again to release the total 3.6 litres but it is evident some of original now diluted  potion will still remain.
Even top up with Honda fluid requires removal of the block drain but I doubt if many owners or non agencies do.

It is hard to warm to makes which blatantly direct servicing to their  own products and  agencies.  And makes where routine maintenance operations are made excessively complex and difficult. The block drain is almost impossible to view, requires just the right length socket extension,  and requires the hands of child. It is annoying that mere coolant change has ben elevated to a complex and critical task.

[culzean]

It is annoying that mere coolant change has ben elevated to a complex and critical task.

That is exactly why you should not drain fully - it is not necessary with modern coolant mixes,  and all anti-freezes contain ethylene Glycol (colourless) as a the 'anti-freeze' component and the anti-corrosion additive package is also colourless,  the colour is added to make leaks show up (and so that car makers can sell you 'their colour of coolant' with veiled threats of dire consequences if you use another colour) - it means very little.

https://www.holtsauto.com/prestone/why-is-coolant-different-colours/

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/841/coolant-fundamentals

The Glycol does not wear out,  and refreshing the anti-corrosion will see you good for another 5 years,  why go to the trouble and heartache of a full drain and risk stripping a thread or damaging something in the process that will probably leak later on.  I used to do a full changes many years ago,  but got fed up with heater not working afterwards and having to get all the air out of the system.

The local water was sea water purified by electrolysis and it was not kind to car engines as it ate alloy components.
Vic.

Not many people know that 'DI (de-ionised) water will also corrode metal as it tries to scavenge back its ions from different metals to re-balance itself into 'normal water' - never use de-ionised water to dilute coolant.   Plain water is passed through special resin filters to take out anions and cations but there can still be other gunk left in water, de-ionised is cheaper to make than distilled,  but distilled is purer and will not cause corrosion.

[Jocko]

I normally just set the heater to "Cold", pop the bottom radiator hose off, drain what wants to come out, hose back on, top up with 50:50, run engine until warm, heater to "Hot"to check it is working and that's it. 20 minutes tops. Mind you, I only ever do that when I first get a car. All my cars are quite old and "distress purchases". I therefore never bother to do the antifreeze again during my ownership. I have a hydrometer to check strength is okay but that's it. In 50 years of motoring I have never ever experienced problems with corrosion in an engine. Maybe buying a car from new and keeping it for ever I would change it, but with my usage as long as it doesn't freeze in winter, I'm happy.