Starting problem & now engine warning light

[guest5476]

Hi
My 2003 Jazz has been hesitating before starting for some weeks but only intermittently.  However, this morning I drove to work, stopping en route after about 12 miles. When I tried to start the engine again it just 'coughed' and all the warning lights flashed, it did this 4 times. I left if for a couple of minutes and tried again and it started perfectly but an amber engine warning light stayed on.
It runs perfectly with no problems once it has started and I tried it again when I got to work and it restarted immediately.
Is it likely to be the starter motor, or a loose connection? Would the warning light stay on if it's a loose connection?
I use the car every day and drive lots of long distances so the battery gets a chance to charge up properly.
Hoping for some advice!
Thanks

[SuperCNJ]

Take it to back to honda, they will have a hand held computer that plugs into the OBD port. This will tell you what errors the sensors are detecting and give you a clue as to what is wrong.

[Ozzie]

I had a dodgy battery cell that meant that the battery only put out 10v rather than 12v, so it was hesitant to start. The main dealer did a battery check and fitted a new one, and all is OK. Simple check for yourself, does it start OK on jump leads? If it does, you need a new battery.

[guest5476]

It's hard to tell Ozzie because sometimes it starts no problem, but thanks for the advice I will check it out.

[Ozzie]

Mine did too. There was no reason for it not to start, I would fill up at the petrol station and it wont start, leave it 2 minutes and it starts, or leave it overnight and it starts first time, no logic at all.

[SuperCNJ]

It's hard to tell Ozzie because sometimes it starts no problem, but thanks for the advice I will check it out.

Do you do a lot of short journeys? Every time you start the car, it requires quite a lot of power from the battery, which needs to be recharged by driving longer journeys. If you do a lot of short journeys there isn't enough time for the battery to recharge fully and eventually the battery depletes and you will struggle to start the car.

If you do have to do a lot of short journeys, like my wife does, then I recommend getting a battery charger/reconditioner to top up and recondition the battery and also a jump starting battery. In recent years, technology has moved on and jump starting batteries are no longer big and heavy shoe box sized devices. The one I have is only a little bigger than my mobile phone but will start a car that has no battery at all!

Let me know if you need more info on these.

[bill888]

I would get the amber warning light checked out first.

All garages should be able to plug in a diagnostic reader to get any error codes.  Note that Honda dealer may charge you for this service.

When was the battery last changed?

fwiw, beware of Halfords replacement 3yr standard batteries, they seem to have average life of +/- 3 years when fitted to 2002, 2006 Jazz and a 2000 Focus belonging to my friends.  If you haven't lost the receipt, they will replace if free of charge if it dies within 3 years to be fair.  (The 4yr batteries sold by Halfords seem to be much better but doesn't seem to be available for Jazz GD1)

Varta A14 or Bosch S4018 batteries are identical to each other and are very good.

The Varta is less than £40 from online retailers like Battery Megastore, if you can find someone to fit it for you.
 

[culzean]

Varta A14 or Bosch S4018 batteries are identical to each other and are very good.

The Varta is less than £40 from online retailers like Battery Megastore, if you can find someone to fit it for you.

I had a Varta battery die on my motorbike after 12 months,   bought a Yuasa instead still going strong after 3 years.  I have also fitted Halfords batteries to many cars and never had a problem,  but I replace my car battery at around  4 years anyway because having worked in the industry I know that is average battery life.   In hot countries you can reckon on 2 years battery life.  Halfords batteries used to be made by Yuasa UK in Wales.  Yuasa silver batteries are on special at Halfords at about £70 and if you plan to keep a car I would splash out,  I just fitted one to my Civic - should be good for 5 or 6 years.  Check the battery codes as they normally do one with standard and also reverse terminal layout and Honda seem to use reverse terminals,  they will probably come with small diameter Japanese terminals with a metal sleeve adapter to suit larger European / USA terminal clamps as well.  I would make a drawing of the terminal layout before you go looking for a battery as it makes life easier.

If you don't know battery history and don't know for sure that it has been changed in last 4 years get a new one - the battery is the most hardworking and most neglected part of any vehicle. 

There are not as many battery makers in the world as you think,  many bigger ones buy up the brand names of famous ones that have gone bust and continue to market batteries under those names,  but they all come off same production lines and get a different sticker on them  Bosch are made in Malaysia by ABI,  Varta are made by Johnson controls.  Yuasa are huge and make batteries for other people as well.

[SuperCNJ]

Yeah I've always used halfords batteries in our previous cars, which have all been fine and lasted many years. They were also tested by autoexpress and were highly recommended.

The original jazz battery in our car lasted 8 years! Even then it was still ok, but we replaced it as it wasn't quite holding it's charge as well as it used to as we do lots of short journeys. So we decided to buy an original honda (yuasa) battery again for it.

[bill888]

I should have emphasized, it's the 3 yr 'standard' battery sold by Halfords where I've seen early failures particularly in the Jazz.  If they are indeed made by Yuasa, this is even more surprising.

The other 4 or 5yr batteries sold by Halfords are much better though but they don't sell one for the Jazz GD1.

As far as I am aware, in Europe anyway, Varta and Bosch batteries are made by Johnson Controls (Google says JC bought Varta Germany in 2002).  I have a Bosch S4018 in my Jazz coming up to 4 years old. 

Externally, the S4018 and A14 look the same apart from the label. Both have 4 year warranties, but the Bosch costs a bit more.  See attached jpegs.  Internally, they 'might' be different but both are suspiciously rated at same 40AH, 330CCA so I suspect they are identical.  (The Halfords standard battery is rated at lower 33AH, 270CCA)

Varta A14 spec
40AH, 330CCA
About £40 from most online retailers.
http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/automotive/blue-dynamic/540-126-033

Bosch S4018 spec
40AH, 330CA
About £50 from most online retailers
url TBA


[attachment deleted by admin]

[culzean]

I should have emphasized, it's the 3 yr 'standard' battery sold by Halfords where I've seen early failures particularly in the Jazz.  If they are indeed made by Yuasa, this is even more surprising.

I couldn't say definitely that Halfords branded batteries are still made by Yuasa,  but they certainly used to be because they had Yuasa in small print on the rear label (they don't any more).  Every battery maker produces budget lines -  in the industry they used be known a 'K-Mart specials'   with batteries if you buy them by weight you won't go far wrong as the budget ones tend to have less plates and active material,  with the remaining space (the container will be same size) filled with electrolyte rather than pasted plates.   If you look on Yuasa UK website their biggest distributor in UK seems to be Halfords,  and they recently started selling Yuasa motorbike batteries. I have had bad experiences on bikes with Banner and Varta batteries (both supposedly German) and am firmly in the Yuasa AGM camp now (absorbed glass matt) where electrolyte is stored between the plates firmly held in a glass fibre matt,  the plates are pressed firmly together and this means they resist the vibration found on motorbikes very well,  also they won't spill acid in a crash.

Once a battery is fitted to a vehicle its fate is in some ways out of the hands of the manufacturer, as peoples driving regimes are all different.  All I know is that the kindest thing for a battery is to keep it well charged,  as batteries that exist below around 70% full charge for long periods tend to sulphate up ( a hard mineral coating forms on the plates) this is generally irreversible and degrades battery charging and output in a downward spiral.

[bill888]

The image of the current replacement battery for a Jazz GD1 posted on the Halfords website, looks slightly different to the YBX3054 battery listed on Yuasa UK's website.

Halfords HB154, 33AH, 270CCA
Yuasa YBX3054, 36AH, 330CCA

See attached jpegs.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[JazzyB]

I recently changed my battery and checked all available sources and ended up buying a honda one 'yuasa' for less money than the rest.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-JAZZ-GENUINE-MAINTENENCE-FREE-BATTERY-/121024782586?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c2da3a0fa