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Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 => Honda Jazz Mk1 FAQ => Topic started by: haroldT on August 14, 2007, 12:44:12 PM

Title: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: haroldT on August 14, 2007, 12:44:12 PM
We had exactly the same problem with our 2003 Jazz - to me it needed tuning !
Had the car analised by two different whizz kids and no fault was shown. On a hunch did a Google search and found this site …. describing the condition perfectly.

We visited our local Honda dealer, described our fault, instant diagnosis ‘replace EGR valve’ which we had done.

Our Honda now seems better than new. Thanks to those who reported this.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: Nicolas on October 03, 2007, 11:55:33 AM
Hi, I have have just had the same issue identified at my dealer on my 03 Jazz after months of thinking it was dodgy fuel.

I was so shocked at the price that the dealer asked Honda UK if they would pay towards the repair. I told them that the Jazz had such a good reliabilty record that this was a shock.

They came good and have offered to pay for half the cost, it is obviously a recurring problem on the Jazz that is only coming to light now after a few years use. I do live in London which does accelerate teh issue.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest102 on October 21, 2007, 10:11:11 PM
We have an 02 Jazz which had the EGR valve replaced at under 20,000 miles to solve this problem. I am ‘in the trade’ and we get a couple of EGR faults every week across the whole range of makes. It always seems worse on vehicles which are used on short runs, or light throttle.
They can often be cured by giving them a good blast on the motorway with the engine hot, not of course exceeding the speed limit, but by holding a lower gear and accelerating/decelerating briskly for a couple of miles.
It is a fairly easy job to remove the valve and clean with carb cleaner, but in extreme cases the only solution is to change the valve.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest243 on October 25, 2007, 02:22:22 PM
when u say misfiring, im guessing its like a jurky feeling under light acceleration? if it is, i get that with my jazz sport, only had it a yr and 13k miles.. should honda replace this under the warranty without any costs?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: WillyCrank on December 06, 2007, 03:44:12 AM
I have the Fit/Sport American import model and currently have had 62,000 trouble free miles; until. I fueled as usual and my commute is 140 miles per day. I was 50 miles into the first leg when my “check engine” icon illuminated.
At the time I thought OK; then as I accelerated down the ramp to hwy speed when the Tach reach 4,000 rpm the rev limiter kicked in and the car of course nosed over. I realized that it would run under that rpm and limped up to 70mph as I usually do I tried to set the cruise control it illuminated as being on but would not set to any speed. Then a few days later it went back to normal; no light no rev limiter issues I thought OK it resolved itself as with possibly a fuel problem. Then after 1 day of joy it’s back.

Has anyone out there seen this obvious ECM issue?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest238 on May 10, 2008, 08:50:45 PM
Quote from: "WillyCrank"
I have the Fit/Sport American import model and currently have had 62,000 trouble free miles; until. I fueled as usual and my commute is 140 miles per day. I was 50 miles into the first leg when my “check engine” icon illuminated.
At the time I thought OK; then as I accelerated down the ramp to hwy speed when the Tach reach 4,000 rpm the rev limiter kicked in and the car of course nosed over. I realized that it would run under that rpm and limped up to 70mph as I usually do I tried to set the cruise control it illuminated as being on but would not set to any speed. Then a few days later it went back to normal; no light no rev limiter issues I thought OK it resolved itself as with possibly a fuel problem. Then after 1 day of joy it’s back.

Has anyone out there seen this obvious ECM issue?

62,000 miles?????

That's some fair amount of driving. Good job your gas is so cheap.

Do you get super unleaded in the 'states? In England, we have 95 RON (regular unleaded) and 98 RON (super unleaded). BP and Shell do a version of super unleaded (still 98 RON) but with 'additives' to increase performance and reduce fuel consumption* Could try these?

*My brother say's his Scooby runs better on Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate, although I myself have never seen any benifits.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: TouranMan on September 04, 2008, 09:51:24 PM
Has anyone successfully cleaned an EGR valve to cure the well known problem?

I've been asked by my parents to look at theirs and a friend of a friend mechanic has suggested leaving it soaking it petrol overnight to free it off.  I removed it last weekend to take a look at it and was able to move the 'plunger' to open the valve quite freely against the spring pressure so I don't think it's going to fix the problem but they want me to try it anyway!

Just wondered if anyone has had any success in cleaning it?

Thanks
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: TouranMan on September 06, 2008, 11:49:52 PM
Never mind, did it last night.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest229 on September 17, 2008, 07:09:30 AM
Any chance you can inform how you fixed the EGR valve? It would be useful for future reference.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest431 on February 21, 2008, 08:04:12 PM
anyone know where it is??
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: JazzyB on February 22, 2008, 11:05:05 AM
hi its located on top of engine on the left hand side in front of the oil filler cap as your facing the engine with the bonnet up

It has an electrical connection on top and the egr valve itself is held down with two bolts

i cant seem to post a pic in this reply

hope that helps
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: RichardA on May 11, 2009, 04:59:44 PM
This is the location of the EGR valve:

(https://clubjazz.org/images/attach/akEzvl2E.jpg)

The EGR valve itself:

(https://clubjazz.org/images/attach/TTzkkBqQ.jpg)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: E27006 on June 15, 2009, 12:41:20 AM
The EGR valve has an internal electrical component called a potentiometer,  the potentiometer  operates  by the movement of the EGR valve stem and a signal is monitored by the ECU to determine if the valve is in the open or closed position.

The potentiometer wears due to movement of the EGR valve stem.  when it wears it will give an erratic signal, this bothers the ECU and the car bucks and jumps.

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on July 10, 2009, 10:39:41 AM
If you suspect the EGR valve may be the cause of problems on your engine (particularly rough running / cutting out at low revs) try making a temporary metal gasket (a piece of tinplate or aluminium or any thin metal really) to fit underneath the EGR valve and effectively block off the passageway.

The only thing it will affect are the emissions at higher revs - the valve should be firmly closed at lower revs anyway.  If the engine runs smoothly with the gasket in place then it points to EGR valve being the problem - if it makes no difference then go to plan B, (plan B is normally to admit defeat and to take it in to a dealer.)  Don't be tempted to leave the gasket in place for too long - it is only meant as at diagnostic aid - not a permanent fix.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: hicky on July 14, 2009, 12:08:01 PM
I'm new to this , but heregoes.

I'm having this problem and it has been diagnosed by a main dealer, at a cost of £57-50 I might add.
What I would like to know is where can I buy an EGR valve, how much does it cost, is it a DIY job or is there a complex setting up procedure?

Regards,
Hicky
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: JazzyB on July 14, 2009, 12:30:27 PM
The EGR valve is available from honda but an independent might do it. I would try both to compare prices and then go from there.

Its an easy diy job to change. As you can see from the pictures in the other posts,its just a case of removing the electrical connection on top and then undoing the two securing bolts that hold the EGR valve to the engine. Refitting is just the reverse.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest229 on July 16, 2009, 07:26:12 AM
  Try clicking onto "Emission Controls.co.uk" they offer EGR valves. I have not checked prices.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1251 on February 13, 2010, 05:54:13 AM
Hi All:

I have a 2002 1.3 Jazz with 57000Km's on the clock. My wife advised me when we first bought it several months ago that it sometimes chugged when cruising or slowing down...
I took it for a fast country run and it sort of came right.  Last week she advised me it had got worse.
So today, I removed the EGR Valve, cleaned it with CRC, Kerosene and contact cleaner, plus gave it a few good bangs on the work bench. You could feel the solenoid moving etc. Refitted EGR Valve and car has not driven so well since we bought it...  I suspect the banging on the bench may of freed up the solenoid..., as otherwise it was not that dirty.... Car is now 100% better....
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on February 22, 2010, 06:47:36 PM
 Try clicking onto "Emission Controls.co.uk" they offer EGR valves. I have not checked prices.

I`ve emailed them and their answer is: "Sorry we cannot help you with this part Honda dealer only".

Anyway I`ve checked the EGR valve, it looks clean and I can move the stem.
My car has 45500 miles, 52 reg, mainly driven in London.
I`ve appointment at Honda Chiswick on Friday. I`ll post the result. To check my car will be about £34.00.

Mod.
I think I`ve fixed my problem accidentally.
I took out the EGR valve, had a look in my hand, it looked clean. I pulled out the stem with the screwdriver, but the stem`s shoulder is so small the stem jumped back to its original place. I`ve repeated this about 3-4 times and fitted back.
The next day I haven`t noticed any changes but a day after I did!
My engine runs OK!
The thing what I did was the stem jumped back and the dust from the top of the stem (up inside) fallen off, so it "cleaned" itself.
I`ve cancelled my appointment with Honda.

I hope my story helps you guys.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1269 on February 24, 2010, 02:13:52 AM
Our 2003 CVT simply refused to start on occasions. The engine turned over, even when warm/hot without problem, but would simply not start. The snag was highly intermittant- if engine was allowed to "cool" the fault seemed to solve itself. ALL lights on the dashboard came on normally every time.
It was surmised it was the EGR valve- and I see other posts which offer this as the source of the problem
The car was sent for service- I was gob-smacked to be advised the fault was the IGNITION key! How so I wondered- and still do!
Nonetheless, it is easy to try the original faulty key and one is immediately plagued  by intermittant hot start problems. Changing to the spare key solves the snag every time.
I can offer no explanation as once the barrel of the ignition lock turns, as one starts the engine, one would have thought, the actual key used was working properly. I can only report that changing to what had been the "spare" key, solved the problem!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: nowster on February 24, 2010, 11:42:02 PM
The car was sent for service- I was gob-smacked to be advised the fault was the IGNITION key!
That would be due to the immobiliser. If the transponder in the key doesn't respond reliably, the immobiliser will kick in.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1291 on March 10, 2010, 05:20:52 PM
Hi

I've got a 2002/3 1.4 Jazz which I bought second-hand which I love. But it's just developed the infamous EGR judder.

The Honda dealership have quoted me £410 to replace the EGR valve. Over half of that is the cost of the part.

However, I can get the part myself for £77, and the fitting of it seems to be 'relatively' simple -- for a qualified mechanic.

My question is: is there any reason I need to get this done at the Honda dealership? Is there any special computer stuff that they need to run, or (now that it's been diagnosed) is it just a simple mechanical swap out?

I should just add I don't have any kind of warranty. Any comments gratefully appreciated.

Thank you
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: JazzyB on March 10, 2010, 10:27:12 PM
I don't see any reason to get it done at a Honda dealer or any garage for that matter.

If you are OK with a spanner then its just a simple swap.

There is thread on this forum with pictures if that helps.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on March 11, 2010, 07:11:13 AM
You can do it home, as JazzyB wrote. Get the spanner and swap.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on April 04, 2010, 08:51:04 PM
Eazy-peezy - just a couple of 13mm A/F hex bolts and an electrical plug.

It will help if you have a 1/4" or 3/8" drive socket set with a 150mm extension.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest882 on April 07, 2010, 12:29:40 PM
my jazz has 131000km.i solved my egr problem today with some carb cleaner.the car runs so much better than before.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest806 on April 09, 2010, 09:43:30 PM
Narcis, how did you solve the problem?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest882 on April 10, 2010, 11:32:39 AM
i took off the egr valve using a 12mm spanner.it has 2 holes in it.one for intake and the other for the "exhaust".the intake hole is just a hole,but the other is covered by the head of the actual moving component of the valve.i sprayed some "gum cutter,carb cleaner-pcv"(that is the products name)into the intake hole until it was filled with liquid and then left the valve upside for a couple of minutes to let the carb cleaner do it's job,and then i poored out the liquid(which you will see that it turned brown from the disolved gum that is inside).i did this for several times,i also banged the egr valve,not too hard,on the working bench.when i did that i heard some movement in the valve,which means that the moving components are freed.you can also take a flat headed screwdriver and pull the moving component whos "head" is on top of the exhaust hole towards you and spray some more in there.after doing all of this my car runs much better and responds quicker to acceleration.
i hope this helps
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest806 on April 10, 2010, 04:09:11 PM
thank you :P
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest806 on April 24, 2010, 07:33:18 AM
Any one know if you could use an alternative as a cleaner like white spirit etc... or WD40?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on April 25, 2010, 02:08:44 PM
WD-40 is marketed as a de-grease, Water Dispersant and anti-rust coating and makes a good general cleaner, but never use WD-40 to lubricate anything mechanical as (from bad experience) it tends to set like soft varnish after a while and actually attracts lots of dirt - a good silicone spray (WD-40 people make one) is a much better lubricant.   Do not use silicon on your EGR valve however because it will damage the oxygen sensors (remember the dodgy supermarket fuel episode about 5 years ago where silicone in the fuel wrecked the oxygen sensor on users cars).

I certainly wouldn't use WD-40 where high temperature is involved (eg, on an EGR valve) because it will do a lot more harm than good.  While white spirit may remover fuel laquer build up, kerosene or paraffin will do it a lot better and non of them to my knowledge remove carbon deposits - which is exactly what causes the EGR to stick. 

I would buy a proprietry carburettor cleaner and a little wire brush from halfords etc. -turn valve upside down and soak the mechanism in carb cleaner for a while to loosen the deposits and be prepared to do a bit of mechanical cleaning and thumping as well.

An EGR valve stuck open will be like an inlet vacuum leak and will cause hard starting and jerky low down running. A valve stuck closed will just cause higher NOx emissions at higher revs, and may cause higher fuel consumption.  If you want to prove that your low-down running problems are cause by EGR valve you can blank it off by slipping in a sheet steel gasket without a hole to blank off the passage completely, It is not a good idea to leave the gasket in place for too long though, as it may cause other problems.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest806 on April 25, 2010, 05:30:13 PM
Thank you.  I thought i had read before about WD40 leaving a covering behind.  I will do as you suggest and get a carburettor cleaner. 

For those that have cleaned the EGR Valve, did you replace the gasket?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: RichardA on April 25, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
Bump.

Please vote in the poll at the start of this topic if your Jazz has suffered from this problem. Thanks.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on April 25, 2010, 09:16:04 PM
No I didn't have to replace the gasket but if you are unlucky it may get damaged when you remove the valve (from memory its one of those metalised composite gaskets that can stick to one face or the other, or both and peel apart).
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest882 on April 26, 2010, 05:45:35 PM
my gasket got stuck on the valve ,but i carefully removed it and didn't change it
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest806 on April 29, 2010, 10:46:49 PM
Ordered the gasket to be on the safe side £8.30 from Honda.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1520 on August 02, 2010, 09:22:35 PM
Hi

New to site after struggling to diagnose what's wrong with my 2003 Jazz with 56k on the clock. Planning to try to clean the valve tomorrow; is this a difficult job for someone with little mechanic experience? Going to go to Halfords tomorrow- would carburettor cleaner clean the valve?

Thank you
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on August 03, 2010, 07:46:17 PM
Carb cleaner will help, also read this..........

http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=5345.015/

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1548 on August 16, 2010, 07:13:54 PM
Fixed my EGR valve yesterday. '52' reg Jazz with 63000 miles on clock.
Symtoms as described by others: at 1500rpm cruise it behaved like a rat was
dancing on the throttle cable.
It's a simple job. 2x12mm bolts (which were pretty stiff).
I also took the 10mm bolt off the cable clamp to make more space for the rear bolt.
!!! TAKE CARE REMOVING THE VALVE OR YOU'LL WRITE OFF THE GASKET !!!
Once removed, I sprayed it with carb cleaner:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_202903_langId_-1_categoryId_165750
I never hit anything. I did put a flat blade screwdriver into the gap in the side of the valve and a slight twist resulted in the solenoid lossening. Also, you should be able to twist the round end of the solenoid shaft with a pair of long nosed pliers (whilst spraying on more carb cleaner).
Re-assemble. Test drive. Problem gone :-)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1555 on August 19, 2010, 01:44:55 PM
 ;D

I bought my 02 Jazz in June and luckily the problem with the jerking came to light quite quickly (didn't do it on the test drive of course!) which made me feel like I'd made a really big mistake. I was told it was the a dirty fuel problem by the trader's chosen mechanic. He put the cleaner in and it made no difference at all, I took it back and they tested it on the diagnostics machine but it showed no errors and he claimed it did not jerk at all when he and his lads took it out. I had explained it was inconsistent but I started feeling like they all saw me as some loony woman who did not know how to use a clutch. To cut a long story short the seller agreed to take it to Honda for testing and as I told them it would be Honda confirmed it was the egr valve problem. It has just been replaced by Honda under the warranty and I have picked up the car this morning and just had a very smooth journey to work.

I must say the trader I bought it from did treat me very well and I was given a loan car to use while they were sorting it out without question. Hopefully now I will be able to enjoy the Jazz without too many issues, especially as it's the first Honda I've owned. It's just such a shame you have to really push and moan sometimes to get things sorted and to make people believe it's not your bad driving technique and that it is a genuine issue. We were going to try cleaning outselves and even bought the carb cleaner but we could not get the bolts undone at all. I am glad that I pushed to get it sorted properly now and luckily it was done with about 2 weeks left on the 3 month warranty.  8)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest805 on October 31, 2010, 10:17:33 PM
Hi,
If you suspect a problem with the EGR , can you test it by deactivating it? maybe  by temporarily  disconnecting the wire to the solenoid ?
I was wondering whether this would be an alternative to fitting a blanking plate?

Thanks
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on November 01, 2010, 09:46:51 AM
The whole problem with the EGR valve is that it sticks open, disconnecting the plug will not close it but may upset the ECU.  If the EGR sticks closed you would never know except emissions at high revs may be higher than normal, normally the EGR valve should be closed, but at high revs the EGR should open and allow some exhaust gas back into the inlet manifold.

The best way to check it is to either take it off and look (and buy some carburettor cleaner before you do) or fit a bit of plate underneath to block the passages off.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: olduser1 on November 02, 2010, 02:50:04 PM
Given this issue still seems to be popular i though this extract may be of use, pictue from www.hondafitjazz.com service manual

(http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/PNG/SAA2E07A20323525401KBAD01.PNG)

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1837 on January 25, 2011, 06:06:37 PM
Anyone know a good place to get a replacement EGR Valve - don't wont to pay Honda prices (guessing they will charge £200 or so for the part (quoted £280 to supply and fit!). I have tried ebay but no joy.

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1828 on January 25, 2011, 06:32:25 PM
have you attempted to clean it out? will save you bucks if you do it OK! ;)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1837 on January 25, 2011, 06:46:35 PM
have you attempted to clean it out? will save you bucks if you do it OK! ;)

not yet as its covered under warranty from the dealer (not honda)  I bought it from. Was hoping to get a reasonable priced replacement to try and ensure it fixes it for the long haul.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1828 on January 25, 2011, 07:48:40 PM
well, let the dealer pay for it if it's under warranty...is he asking for money from you?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1837 on January 25, 2011, 08:15:07 PM
well, let the dealer pay for it if it's under warranty...is he asking for money from you?

No is just that its a small car dealership and I cant see him being keen on honda dealer prices!
Looks like similar EGR valves are going on ebay for £40 to £80.

 
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1828 on January 25, 2011, 09:01:23 PM
let him have a chance to either clean it out, or replace...I guess he'd opt out of the latter knowing small dealer's, but at least he should put it right for you! Keep us posted!

btw, don't feel sorry for him, he earns enough!  ;)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1898 on February 02, 2011, 02:15:53 AM
To overcome this problem I simply fabricated a metal plate to fit below the EGR valve thus resolving three issues:
1.)This method does not create a Check Engine Light fault as the car sees all electrical circuits are present.
2.) You will experience smoother performance as dirty hot air is no longer being pumped into the intake manifold, stupid idea really, as you want nice cold clean air for combustion.
3.) You should get more torque, and never have to worry about maintaining the EGR Vlave solenoid.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1390 on February 22, 2011, 01:46:25 PM
i took off the egr valve using a 12mm spanner.it has 2 holes in it.one for intake and the other for the "exhaust".the intake hole is just a hole,but the other is covered by the head of the actual moving component of the valve.i sprayed some "gum cutter,carb cleaner-pcv"(that is the products name)into the intake hole until it was filled with liquid and then left the valve upside for a couple of minutes to let the carb cleaner do it's job,and then i poored out the liquid(which you will see that it turned brown from the disolved gum that is inside).i did this for several times,i also banged the egr valve,not too hard,on the working bench.when i did that i heard some movement in the valve,which means that the moving components are freed.you can also take a flat headed screwdriver and pull the moving component whos "head" is on top of the exhaust hole towards you and spray some more in there.after doing all of this my car runs much better and responds quicker to acceleration.
i hope this helps

Have checked out the valve as you described above & the car is fine now. £8.50 for a gasket seems a bit steep to me having worked in the toolmaking industry for some years, but a tin of carb cleaner + gasket is a whole lot better than £253  for a new EGR Valve :o
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1844 on March 07, 2011, 10:00:01 PM
Quote
2.) You will experience smoother performance as dirty hot air is no longer being pumped into the intake manifold, stupid idea really, as you want nice cold clean air for combustion.

It's done for emissions. At light load, you recirculate exhaust for the following reasons:
1. It bulks up the hot gas in the cylinder to reduce the max temp, reducing NOx production. NOx (Oxides of nitrogen) gives cities that brown haze on sunny days (the sunlight reacts with it).
2. It slightly helps the valves as they are not dealing with quite so hot exhaust. The total energy is the same as you have more cooler gas rather than a little hot gas (re Boyles law)
3. It slightly reduces throttling losses, as at light loads you're pulling a partial vacuum on the inlet which is a waste of energy (a marginal benefit).

At full power the valve has to shut as you want max clean air to burn with the fuel.

BTW, diesels have more problems with NOx as they are un-throttled engines so always burn lean at light load - the high residual oxygen at light loads produces much more NOx. A diesel's EGR valve is to reduce the oxygen content at light load. Again, obviously at full load you want it shut as you want all the oxygen possible for power, and the NOx problem reduces as the oxygen is used on the fuel, not post-burn oxidation of nitrogen. If you frig out a diesels EGR it'll prob throw the engine light as its a no-no. I thought it would on a petrol as well, but evidently not.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: RichardA on March 07, 2011, 10:21:48 PM
NOx is partly why diesel cars are not very popular in the US. US legislation is based on NOx emissions where else in the EU it's more CO2.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2035 on April 08, 2011, 10:48:10 PM
Hello all,

I'm new to this forum. We had the judder problem with our 1.4 petrol manual Jazz. Following the advice from here I took off the EGR today and cleaned the valve and its socket with a toothbrush and meths. Replaced it and the car now runs fine - thanks!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2019 on April 23, 2011, 11:43:24 PM
Hi guys,

Cleaned my EGR valve today which made no difference and i bought a 2nd hand EGR valve which had very low 15,XXX on it and still didn't fixed the problem  :(  .... what could it be? i just wanna fix this problem asap.


Regards,
John.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on April 24, 2011, 05:20:55 PM
What did you use to clean the EGR valve?
Have you tried to disconnect the battery for about 5 minutes?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2019 on April 24, 2011, 11:37:13 PM
What did you use to clean the EGR valve?
Have you tried to disconnect the battery for about 5 minutes?

Pretty much the carby cleaner spray and yank out and twist the short stem a few times.. poke and scrape it with a brush and phillips head to break down the gunk inside it. Were you meant to reset the ECU afterwards? I'll give that a try then and get back to you guys.

Thanks,

John.
----- Double Post Prevention - new post below: 1303694332 -----
Resetted ECU and took it for a drive and made no difference.. so most likely a mechanical fault somewhere in the gearbox i assume.. clutch starter?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on April 25, 2011, 06:50:04 AM
Quote
Pretty much the carby cleaner spray and yank out and twist the short stem a few times.. poke and scrape it with a brush and phillips head to break down the gunk inside it. Were you meant to reset the ECU afterwards?

Well, yes I thought the same, carb cleaner and a good cleaning. Anyway I always disconnect the battery first before I remove any electrical component of the car (just in case).
You didn`t tell what is the symptom/problem with your car, if it doesn`t have that jerky running at the certain rev range (around 2000rpm) it may not be the EGR valve.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2019 on April 25, 2011, 08:49:24 AM
Quote
Pretty much the carby cleaner spray and yank out and twist the short stem a few times.. poke and scrape it with a brush and phillips head to break down the gunk inside it. Were you meant to reset the ECU afterwards?

Well, yes I thought the same, carb cleaner and a good cleaning. Anyway I always disconnect the battery first before I remove any electrical component of the car (just in case).
You didn`t tell what is the symptom/problem with your car, if it doesn`t have that jerky running at the certain rev range (around 2000rpm) it maybe not the EGR valve.

Sorry about that DV, pretty much when your driving normally on D i.e. no matter what constant speed you travelling in say 60km speed limit, the revs will drop to 1500rpm and you feel the vibration.

Cheers.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on April 25, 2011, 09:01:46 AM
When the EGR valve faulty the jerky running comes up at any gear when you hold the accelerator pedal around 2000 rpm, does not matter what gear you are in. In your case probably something else the problem.
Have you changed the gearbox oil to the new recommended one?

Quote
Honda released a Worldwide product update (PDU) that informed all dealers, and service depots to use only Honda CVT-F (Honda part number (4 litres) 0826099904HE) in all CVT transmissions in Insight, Civic IMA, HRV, and JAZZ.[/guote]

More info here: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=94.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=94.0)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2019 on April 25, 2011, 09:16:26 AM
When the EGR valve faulty the jerky running comes up at any gear when you hold the accelerator pedal around 2000 rpm, does not matter what gear you are in. In your case probably something else the problem.
Have you changed the gearbox oil to the new recommended one?

Quote
Honda released a Worldwide product update (PDU) that informed all dealers, and service depots to use only Honda CVT-F (Honda part number (4 litres) 0826099904HE) in all CVT transmissions in Insight, Civic IMA, HRV, and JAZZ.[/guote]

More info here: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=94.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=94.0)

I doubt its CVT oil problem.. since i change it every 15,XXX km... since that got rid of that vibration issue when u accelerate off the spot.

Just the RPM just drops to 1500rpm no matter what speed you travel flat is giving annoying me.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on April 25, 2011, 09:57:59 AM
Quote
Well, yes I thought the same, carb cleaner and a good cleaning. Anyway I always disconnect the battery first before I remove any electrical component of the car (just in case).

No need to disconnect the battery when you unplug something, the fact that it has a plug and socket on it means that it is meant to be disconnected, and can't short out to anything because contact pins are surrounded by insulation.  

Disconnecting the battery except when it is absolutely unavoidable (ie. when you fit a new one) can cause other major problems if you read other posts on this forum...........
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on April 25, 2011, 10:06:19 AM
jonno86

He had a similar problem and solved it: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1909.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1909.0)
I have owned 2 Jazz's in my time: originally a CVT 1.4SE and more recently a 2003 manual one purchased from a friend.

Over the past 12 months or so we have had a worsening problem with erratic throttle at low revs. The symptoms seem to appear once the car has warmed up and when using very low revs e.g. manoeuvring in a car park. Despite the throttle position the revs would bounce around resulting in kangarooing. The other way to show it up would be to hold the car still on a hill just using the throttle and the clutch and you could see the revs fluctuating randomly by 500-800 rpm.

The car has been seen at a Honda dealer, twice at a general independent and once at a independent Honda specialist. The dealer said it was the EGR valve which was replaced with no real improvement; the independent said it was a sticking throttle which might have made a temporary improvement and the Honda independent said it was the spark plugs but "they are all a bit rough at low revs".

Since we are trying to teach our kids to drive in the car I was not happy and was going to resort to selling the car. However, I tried a few things and seem to have solved it:

1. Temporarily blanked off the EGR valve as suggested in this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=5345.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=5345.0) in case the replacement was faulty. No improvement (but drove about 20 miles with it like that and triggered the emissions warning light which fortunately reset itself after a week or so...).
2. Purchased a 2nd hand throttle body from a breaker for £60 (note that if doing this you need to ensure you get the correct version - mine has ECTS but the first one I bought had a traditional throttle (fortunately they refunded me without a problem). This didn't appear to have any effect either.
3. As a last resort I thought I would disconnect the battery to reset the ECM having read this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1366.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1366.0) and then used the directions to "retrain" the ECM. Bingo - the problem seems to be solved!

I have no idea if just retraining the ECM, without having changed the throttle body, would have cured the problem but I thought I would post this in the hope that it might help someone else with the same problem.

Nick


culzean

So far I had no problem after disconnecting the battery but it happened once a year (or less) only.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2019 on April 25, 2011, 12:06:09 PM
jonno86

He had a similar problem and solved it: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1909.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1909.0)
I have owned 2 Jazz's in my time: originally a CVT 1.4SE and more recently a 2003 manual one purchased from a friend.

Over the past 12 months or so we have had a worsening problem with erratic throttle at low revs. The symptoms seem to appear once the car has warmed up and when using very low revs e.g. manoeuvring in a car park. Despite the throttle position the revs would bounce around resulting in kangarooing. The other way to show it up would be to hold the car still on a hill just using the throttle and the clutch and you could see the revs fluctuating randomly by 500-800 rpm.

The car has been seen at a Honda dealer, twice at a general independent and once at a independent Honda specialist. The dealer said it was the EGR valve which was replaced with no real improvement; the independent said it was a sticking throttle which might have made a temporary improvement and the Honda independent said it was the spark plugs but "they are all a bit rough at low revs".

Since we are trying to teach our kids to drive in the car I was not happy and was going to resort to selling the car. However, I tried a few things and seem to have solved it:

1. Temporarily blanked off the EGR valve as suggested in this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=5345.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=5345.0) in case the replacement was faulty. No improvement (but drove about 20 miles with it like that and triggered the emissions warning light which fortunately reset itself after a week or so...).
2. Purchased a 2nd hand throttle body from a breaker for £60 (note that if doing this you need to ensure you get the correct version - mine has ECTS but the first one I bought had a traditional throttle (fortunately they refunded me without a problem). This didn't appear to have any effect either.
3. As a last resort I thought I would disconnect the battery to reset the ECM having read this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1366.0 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1366.0) and then used the directions to "retrain" the ECM. Bingo - the problem seems to be solved!

I have no idea if just retraining the ECM, without having changed the throttle body, would have cured the problem but I thought I would post this in the hope that it might help someone else with the same problem.

Nick


culzean

So far I had no problem after disconnecting the battery but it happened once a year (or less) only.

Hi Culzean,

I'll give the ECM a try tomorrow. Cheers.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on June 04, 2011, 05:18:31 PM
This week Thursday morning I had the amber colour light came up on my dashboard. I managed to read the fault code: P1491. I made a Google search and it seems my EGR valve faulty, P1491 EGR Valve Lift Insufficient Detected.
Won`t be cheap to buy a new one...
In the last 2 years I regularly cleaned it with carb cleaner so I think this is the end of the life of the EGR valve.

mod: I found 2 used ones, £84.00+ post £7.20 (120 days warranty @Xcess Access Ltd) and £102.00+ post £12.00 (@Dewsbury Auto Salvage), now I`m going to check the price of the new one at Honda.

mod2: the new is £215.81+VAT @ Johnsons Honda
The same genuine (through Honda) new from Eurocarparts is £273+VAT !

mod3: Uploading some pics about the new EGR valve, arrived today.
pic1: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3267.JPG (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3267.JPG)
pic2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3268.JPG (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3268.JPG)
pic3: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3270.JPG (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3270.JPG)
pic4: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3271.JPG (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3271.JPG)
pic5: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3236.JPG (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3236.JPG).
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2165 on June 11, 2011, 12:27:08 AM
Hello to all advisors for the infamous EGR valve problem, I will try the clean out for my suspect valve and see how that goes, I will take the precaution of getting a new gasket from Honda first. I have been looking at various sources for a replacement in case the clean doesn't work, but I am a little dubious about using a secondhand one given that these things seem quite prone to faulting. Honda's price for a new one is a little eye-watering (quoted £258 inc VAT) from my local dealer :o :o, but I am going to Canada and the USA in a few weeks, and it occurs to me that the price for a new valve might be a lot more reasonable from a Honda dealer over there. The 10,000 dollar question is - do any of you advisors out there know if this particular valve is common across a range of Honda engines? I.E. Jazz, Civic, etc. My Jazz (GD series) is a 1.2i-DSi, 2005/05, with the L12A series engine. I know that the Jazz is called the Fit over the other side of the pond, but they appear to use larger engines in them, as do the Aussies (probably Civics?) Also, can anyone tell me the correct Honda stock number for this valve?
Regards, warrior193.   
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2165 on June 11, 2011, 10:07:40 AM
Blast!, another terrific idea shot down in flames :'( Oh well, mustn't cry. I guess if the carb cleaner doesn't work I will just have to try a used one - wonder what the odds are on getting a good one ::) Does anyone out there have a favoured supplier? So far I have had responses from A1 Jap; Dewsbury Auto; Hygrade Motor and Xcess Access.
Regards, warrior 
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2209 on June 27, 2011, 04:30:52 PM
My 2002 Jazz started suffering from this about a month ago with kicking at about 2000 RPM.
First, THANKS for everyone that contributed to this posting, I indeed suffered from the bad EGR valve problem and it is now fixed.
I ended up doing a search for the part number in DV's post, HONDA Part Number 18011-PWA-050 and found a shop in the USA that would ship to Cyprus. dealerpartsdirect(dot)com They take PayPal and can ship anywhere. So for about $157 plus shipping and taxes I got the part. It says it is for a 2006 Civic Hybrid but I figured it was worth a try since it would have cost Euro 330 +vat here at the local Honda shop. So for about Euro 160 and 5 minutes of my time I got the Jazz running like new.

Happy Driving
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2242 on July 16, 2011, 01:55:20 PM
My 52 plate, ~68k Jazz has been suffering with this hesitancy problem for a while now, thought it was probably the coil packs (£90 EACH  :o ) until I found this thread. I've just finished cleaning it with some carb cleaner and touch wood it seems a lot better, hopefully this will ward off a new one for a while.

I did some research and it seems that the same EGR valve is used on the 03-05 and 06-11 Civic Hybrid, this was sold in the US and (surprise surprise) the part is a lot cheaper there, so this might be a good option if you do need to buy a new one.

For anyone who does have a go at cleaning their EGR valve the bit you need to work on is the round bit highlighted here:

(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h272/agentb0b/ad1fbbc3.jpg)

Use a pair of needle nosed pliers to pull the round part in the recess up (be gentle with it) and spray some carb cleaner in to clean it up. This is the part that needs to move freely.

It's probably worth getting a new gasket in before tackling this as it is almost guaranteed that it'll get ruined when you take it off.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1552 on August 22, 2011, 07:13:24 PM
Interesting reading about the EGR problems, my 06 model has started to play up, my local dealer JT Hughes Shrewsbury wants £219 for the valve, I dont get how they can just make up any price they like. This isnt the first time they have wanted silly money for parts, I just shelled out £50 for a front suspension drop link from them, does that sound about right??
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1761 on August 31, 2011, 11:50:51 AM
I just wanted to say thank you to all on here for the help regarding the EGR valve.
I've fixed my valve with a little bit of paraffin and some tlc.
Car now runs like new and it sailed its MOT yesterday, no advisories.
What a great little motor... :D
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2733 on September 03, 2011, 03:46:39 PM
Hello all,
Thanks to previous posters who have helped me identify this bunny hopping problem on my 2003 v low milage jazz.
I cleaned the valve with petrol but it didn't help. The valve stem moves freely and didn't look particularly dirty. I wanted to be sure of the problem so next I made a blanking gasket (I used a piece of lakeland plastics silcone baking tray liner - good to 260 degC £5.49 ;D).
Since I put the blanking gasket in place the problem has gone but now I am getting the "malfunction" indicator light on the dash according to the manual I have an emmissions problem.
My question - what is the problem with leaving it like this, will it cause damage?

Thanks in advance of any advice
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on September 03, 2011, 05:14:42 PM
EGR Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation),
EGR other: http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/gr/def_egr-valve.htm (http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/gr/def_egr-valve.htm).
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2733 on September 04, 2011, 10:29:52 AM
Many thanks DV for the information. I see how and why the valve works. Perhaps my question should have been:

How long can I get away with this without causing more problems or damage?
I would like to make a 250 mile trip later this week. Is this going to damage anything or do I need to get hold of the valve first or hire a car?. It seems to run great at the moment but I only dare use it on short runs in case I cause a bigger problem.

Thanks

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1552 on September 07, 2011, 10:42:14 AM
I have been looking around for a replacement EGR but it seems like second hand or main dealer part. However there is  nice guy at CES exhaust systems who informed me there is a specific EGR cleaner that has just come to market which is better suited to clearing carbon deposits than carb cleaner. They have it at £4.95 + VAT for a tin so I will let you know how i get on...
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1978 on November 08, 2011, 10:58:08 AM
Hi,
I have an issue where my car doesn't like rolling along in first gear when in traffic, it tends to be very jerky at this low speed. I don't however get any jerkiness at mid or high speeds. Could my car's symptoms be caused by the EGR?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on November 08, 2011, 09:24:59 PM
Hi,
I have an issue where my car doesn't like rolling along in first gear when in traffic, it tends to be very jerky at this low speed. I don't however get any jerkiness at mid or high speeds. Could my car's symptoms be caused by the EGR?

What rpm range is it happening at?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1978 on November 08, 2011, 10:26:29 PM
perhaps 5 mph and 700 rpm-ish? tickover in first gear...the kind of speeds you do in solid traffic, without pressing the accelerator
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest869 on November 09, 2011, 06:17:31 AM
Thats mine too! Time to get busy with the cleaner.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1978 on November 09, 2011, 04:35:40 PM
Just ordered some EGR cleaner and a new gasket...hopefully tackle it this weekend if they both turn up  :)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on November 09, 2011, 09:39:07 PM
Do not forget to take off the air intake manifold and clean the EGR canal down there too,
http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/07/SAA2E07A20336335001KDAT00.HTML (http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/07/SAA2E07A20336335001KDAT00.HTML).
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1978 on November 10, 2011, 06:51:35 AM
Do not forget to take off the air intake manifold and clean the EGR canal down there too,
http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/07/SAA2E07A20336335001KDAT00.HTML (http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/07/SAA2E07A20336335001KDAT00.HTML).

I think that's a little too much for my meagre mechanic skills!  :o
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest1978 on November 19, 2011, 11:13:50 AM
Just ordered some EGR cleaner and a new gasket...hopefully tackle it this weekend if they both turn up  :)

Just finished the job this morning. I can't believe the difference! Lovely and smooth and controlled now! Thanks to everyone on this thread!  ;D
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2952 on December 11, 2011, 07:02:23 PM
I have read through all these posts concerning the EGR problem, and I am not entirely certain if my problem is the same.
I have noticed that the consumption on my 2007 SE has risen slightly of late, but I'm not getting the jerkiness described by others. However the Check Engine Lamp came on yesterday (constant) and I was wondering if there could be any other reason this should happen, or is it fairly certain that the EGR is involved?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest882 on December 13, 2011, 04:17:14 PM
I have read through all these posts concerning the EGR problem, and I am not entirely certain if my problem is the same.
I have noticed that the consumption on my 2007 SE has risen slightly of late, but I'm not getting the jerkiness described by others. However the Check Engine Lamp came on yesterday (constant) and I was wondering if there could be any other reason this should happen, or is it fairly certain that the EGR is involved?
Thanks in advance.
Yes ,the check engine lamp came on because of the egr valve.I had  the same problem and the  engine  didn't start,so i had to clean it good
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2970 on March 16, 2012, 10:03:38 AM
i too had the engine hopping problem when i first bought the car but since i have used V-power on every single tank. the problem s gone, not sure if the V-power have cleaned the valve??
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: dg on June 25, 2012, 06:41:08 PM
just to clarify few points:

1) what to use for cleaning EGR valve
seen references to carb cleaner, oven cleaner and specialised EGR cleaners
EGR cleaners I've seen on ebay are supposed to be sprayed into air intake with running engine
I would prefer manual cleaning though
is there any other type of specialised EGR cleaners? or carb cleaner is enough?

2) soaking
is it safe to soak it in cleaner overnight leaving electrical contacts out? won't it soak to electrical part somehow?

EDIT: ordered carb cleaner as it's cheapest option
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: mtf on October 09, 2012, 05:50:54 PM
hi mates. i am from Malta and have a 2003 jazz CT 7. love it. but some time ago while driving slow behind cars in traffic it started to jitter forward and slow down again. like with the old carb car fuel in and fuel starve problem. I decided to go to a friend of mine which has equipment to diagnose fault after i had seen the engine indicator on. and the fault come EGR. so after i read all your write ups which are very helpful i decided to remove the EGR and clean it with carb cleaner. the result is fantastic and now i can drive very pleasantly also in traffic. I also tried the, heated up the engine and run ed it for a couple of miles on low gear.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: RichardA on December 03, 2012, 08:22:52 PM
Split post on possible problem with the EGR valve on GE models:
http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=4374.0
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest3731 on December 06, 2012, 04:39:10 PM

Hello All,

I am a newby to this website. I wonder if I can get your help.

I have owned my Jazz for 5 years and it has never given me a problem till now. (57 plate) My (normally reliable) mechanic thought it was the petrol filter. So I had him change it. But the problem was the EGR.
My mechanic due a engine diagnostic test and it came back as the EGR. I notice from this forum
that I am not alone with EGR problems on an otherwise great and reliable car!

I called the local dealer and they quoted me around £350 for the part!

Last month my family and I were flooded and had to move house. Christmas is fast approaching
with three little kids and I was hoping to save some cash.

My question is this: Will a used part (from a decent online brakers garage) work on my car.
I was told by one parts breaker that I should have the same part numbers when buying
my egr valve - another breakers garage said they did not have to be the same parts number.

I don't know who is right. I could buy a used part online for £100, but on the other hand don't want
to waste £100 in a bid to 'save money'.

Do any you guys know if the EGR valve you buy has to have the same part and manufacturer number
or can you just buy the same engine size EGR?

I would very much appreciate your views.

regards

Brian.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on December 06, 2012, 05:14:39 PM
When I bought my new EGR valve from Honda dealer they asked my reg. no. only. On the old EGR valve I had F1 written (moulded in) on but on the new (upgraded) part I had F2.
Part no.: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3236.JPG (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3236.JPG)
New and old: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3268.JPG (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3268.JPG).
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on December 07, 2012, 08:42:06 AM
Brian123

when the EGR valve gives trouble it is normally that it is just crudded up and sticks in open position - you probably don't need to buy a new part,  just free up the old one.  (get some carburettor cleaner from Halford and soak the inside of EGR, its a doddle to remove from car,  just one electrical plug and 2 bolts)  If you are careful in taking it off you may not need new gasket. 

EGR should only open at higher revs to let some of the exhaust gas back into the air intake (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) this cools the combustion down ans reduces nitrous oxide emissions. If the valve sticks open it is the same as having a leak in the intake manifold and that's what causes the jerkiness and bad performance low down.

There is loads of advice on this forum about cleaning up EGR valve interiors.  Just type EGR into search
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest806 on December 07, 2012, 08:03:42 PM
Brian, give it a try yourself, many of us have done it.   I replaced the gasket at the same time, just to be on the safe side.

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest806 on December 09, 2012, 11:54:15 AM
I have a haynes manual if you would like it for a resonable offer.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest3806 on January 17, 2013, 12:21:45 PM
Suffered problems now solved. Detailed below.

Car details: 2001 Jazz 1.4 SE Sport (UK) with 70,000miles
Symptoms: Low road speed and high engine load (eg 4th gear pulling up hill or rolling with slow traffic and starting to pull away in same gear when traffic speed picks up) the engine would hiccup/hesitate/misfire and it would shake through the car occasionally being quite a jolt the nose of the car would really dip.
Tried: New plugs, replacement coil packs, cleaning throttle body, testing TPS voltage (0.5v closed, 4.5v open)
Cure: Read Club Jazz forum, took off the EGR valve, banged it against my vice and cleaned with carb cleaner then refitted.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

The best part is now knowing what the problem was as there was no check light on the dash.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: madasafish on January 17, 2013, 03:44:21 PM
The best part is now knowing what the problem was as there was no check light on the dash.

THAT is THE clue which points to an EGR valve issue  (or a sensor problem on some cars - often crank sensor).

It's really simple logic which defies many garages!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest3856 on February 13, 2013, 08:58:54 PM
I think I have the same EGR issue and I want to order a gasket (just in case) and will proceed with the CARB CLEANER.
Non-mechanic here, can you please make clear exactly what gasket i need to buy? There are many options, I have a guide price of £8.50 from a previous poster. Appreciated. Q
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: dg on February 14, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
just ask local honda dealer, part num: 18714-PWA-004, less then £10 for sure
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0410&block_03=19959 (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0410&block_03=19959)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: dg on February 14, 2013, 11:43:22 AM
actually you may need to clean egr passage in egr plate(between air intake and engine) as well
in my case egr valve was fine, but while doing valve adjustment I cleaned up said passage and car ran much better afterwards
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0300&block_03=19959 (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0300&block_03=19959)
plate is #14
gaskets #15 and #11 might require replacement


Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest3203 on February 26, 2013, 03:39:33 PM
Thought I would mention my two penny worth! I had the infamous EGR fault and cured it by removal and cleaning, as many here have done - but here's the thing..... Around two years ago Honda said I needed a new battery, but being a mean Scot, I soldiered on until now as the car started fine. Very recently, though, I noticed a hesitation on start- up and decided enough was enough and bought a new (Bosch) battery for £38.95 off Ebay. Next day delivery, by the way!
This is what I discovered on replacement. The car immediately drove better. My light foot on the throttle did not make the car hiccup as it was wont to do again lately, (echoes of the EGR valve syndrome) which pleased me no end. And to cap it all the fuel consumption has improved significantly. So what's that about? Do we all need to make sure our batteries are up to scratch before we take the EGR valve apart? Worth a thought or two!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: chrisc on February 27, 2013, 06:16:46 AM
That old battery must have had an internal short to be putting such a load on the electrics, even with the alternator spinning!   I think you caught it just in time.  If I heard my mechanic suggest a new battery but didn't buy one straight away, I would be sure to measure it with a meter fairly frequently thereafter.

I have had batteries in other equipment develop internal short-circuits to find the charger almost red-hot trying to charge the battery.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest3203 on February 27, 2013, 01:11:31 PM
Chris,
I always assumed that once a car had started the alternator generated enough electricity to provide the spark for ignition from then on. You are now telling me different. The starting of the car wasn't enough for me to be alarmed before i changed the battery; I am going to be travelling south to visit my son soon and thought I would change it to be on the safe side and not cause embarrassment. I always class myself as average and if I had neglected to change the battery when recommended then I'm sure there are lots of Jazz owners just like me who don't trust garages. Of course the Honda garage was going to charge £80+ pounds to change it, so I knew I could do it myself for less than half the cost and with little effort. (No Haynes manual re-setting was required and everything worked once the radio and clock were retuned). Thanks for the info. though, and I will have the voltmeter ready next time!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on February 27, 2013, 04:58:24 PM
What happens with lead acid batteries is that over time and particularly in warmer climates the positive plates corrode (the negative ones do not) and when they corrode they get bigger, this can put pressure on the insulating separators and push through to cause a short.  When this happens the shorted cell voltage drops from 2 volts to to zero,  so you then have only 5 cells in series at around 2 volts each and only 10 volts at the terminals. 

The other common failure mode after long service is when one of the inter-cell welded connections breaks,  in this case there is now no continuity of connection in the battery and although you may see some voltage at the terminals with no load, as soon as you try to draw any current from the battery  the terminal voltage drops to zero because of the broken  / high resistance joint.

I am of the opinion that after 4 to 5 years (depending upon initial quality and alloy mix of the battery plates)   any lead acid automotive battery is firmly in the 'living on borrowed time' category,  and either of the above faults can happen at any time,  the battery with a shorted cell may still start your car,  but the one with the broken connection will leave you stranded.  Even a good quality battery that is replaced after 5 years will still have only cost you about 30 pence a week.

Low mileage also kills batteries, because if they are kept below about 50% charge level for any length of time they normally 'sulphate up' and a white coating appears on the plates and drastically reduces battery efficiency,  and in most cases it is irreversible.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest3975 on April 04, 2013, 12:51:21 AM
Hi (newbie to this forum here),

Just thought I'd say thanks to those on this forum that have been discussing this. After experiencing some of the typical problems details on this post (engine acting as if it was misfiring at certain revs and making jerky movements where it was not previously (typically when pulling off) and seeming to sometimes hesitate on accelerating) I too tried cleaning my EGR valve and boy what a difference it has made. I did it around a week ago now having had problems going on for the last few months (I even took the car to Honda who after driving it around could not find anything notably wrong (was behaving itself that day) but did change the spark plugs (at my cost) to see if that made any difference.... needless to say that didn't solve my issues.  After reading all the posts on this forum I decided it was worth trying this myself so I got some carb cleaner and ordered a new gasket from a Honda dealer. After I had removed the EGR valve from the car I noticed it was indeed very dirty as other posters have described and went about cleaning it with carb cleaner.


Just some tips/list of things I did for anyone else attempting this:

- Wear gloves (I mean Latex/Nitrile not the cotton sort)

- You probably don't want to attempt this if you have driven the car that day. I found on a previous day that even a short trip will leave the EGR hot for several hours.

- I disconnected the car battery (removed negative/ground) before starting this
    - If you need to get anything out of the boot and have the models with the electronic boot release open the boot before you do this)
    - If you do this your 'auto' window on the drivers side will not work until you re-calibrate it
         - To recalibrate it press the 'window' lower button until the window lowers all the way and then carry on holding it for a few seconds longer. The press the button to raise the window and hold it for a few seconds longer than needed. The window will then have re-learned its automatic function.

- you will need a socket extender to reach the bolts holding the EGR body to its mount

- I found it easier to get to the rear bolt after I unscrewed the mount that holds the connector cable in place (1 bolt that just holds a piece of metal in place that faces forward)

- I could have probably re-used the gasket as it came off more or less intact but I fitted a new one in any case after cleaning off the remains of the old one (this actually took the longest time). But I would not recommend this - just get a new one - they are fairly cheap (I paid around £10 including postage for one).

- I found electrical tape was useful (using the sticky side as a pick up) for picking up odd bits of flaking gasket and carbon deposits on the EGR mount (the part that you are NOT removing) itself. Doing this  stopped the bits falling into the holes which they would have done if I'd have dusted it.

- I used a glass (window scraping) knife to (carefully) get rid of the bits of gasket that stuck to the EGR valve after peeling away the old gasket from the EGR (note: this is messy and the gasket it very sticky).

- I did tape over the electrical connector on the EGR valve with electrical tape before cleaning it with carb cleaner or attempting to remove the gasket just in case anything dropped into the connector and in case the cleaner has an undesired effects on the connection (don't think this is necessary but decided to do it anyways)

- After blasting it with carb cleaner several times I  thought that I had damaged a black ring that was surrounding the round hole on the EGR valve plate (the part that the gasket sits on). BUT I then found that this was in fact just a build up of carbon that had stuck to it after rubbing it with a cloth. I then cleaned this off carefully so that the whole EGR plate was shiny.

- A bit of background: Bought the car (very late 2005 SE model) 2nd hand (privately) with a full Honda service history. All services done yearly by the same Honda garage each time. The fault was not apparent when I bought the car and seemed to develop slowly over  time. (Just worth a mention: I did suffer from another problem on this car around a year after buying it when the dreaded 'whining in low gears' issue occurred but after taking it to Honda armed with printout from another forum posting that contained a Technical Services Bulletin Honda did all the works (replacing defective input shaft bearing) free of charge as there was a known manufacturing issue on some of these. The car has under 50,000 miles on the clock.

- About me: I'm not a mechanic (just a keen DIYer) and do not claim to know everything about this by a long shot so please don't treat anything I have said as absolute fact and I cannot be held responsible for any harm/damage this may cause/you may do from following anything I have said (i.e the usual standard disclaimers to following advise on internet forums apply). Apart from changing the battery (and doing other things like rotating tyres, changing bulbs, wipers, fuses on mine and other friends cars) I had not done anything in the engine bay before this but found this very straightforward to do.



Anyways, the end result is that the car now runs really smoothly with no signs of previous feelings of a misfire and no feeling response hesitation when accelerating. The difference was noticeable straight away. Huge thanks to everyone running this forum and everyone that has contributed to this thread (and sorry about the lengthy posting!)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: chrisc on April 06, 2013, 08:39:59 PM
That is an excellent post, Mink.  If you have a battery with an internal short, it will be able to start the car but will cause the alternator to work harder trying to charge it beyond a certain voltage.  This will also affect the fuel consumption since there is more drag on the engine.  As Clayhurley pointed out, a new battery altered the way his car performed to the better
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2916 on April 08, 2013, 09:00:55 AM
This is the exact same story guys for me . I know nothing about cars and i mean nothing but bought the same battery from euro parts for 39.99 p&p free. Fitted witin 10 minutes car runs better smoother and for some reason allso better mpg.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: JazzyB on April 08, 2013, 04:48:07 PM
Could be that everythings been reset....................
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4029 on April 29, 2013, 09:56:40 PM
Well i have join EGR valve problem crew a 2002 model after spending 1000s pounds modifying my Jazz-bit, and start to get a jerky feeling from the engine area. At first i have spent a lot money diagnose the problem, but no mechanic was able to tell me the issue i was experiencing as no codes was showing up.

Eventually in a few months later the engine management light showed didnt know whether to feel good or unhappy about this light.

Nevertheless a trip to my trustworthy acha people, diagnose it was the EGR valve malfunctioning and blocked with carbon causing it stick open.

They cleaned it out and said it was a temporary job and soon or later needed to fit a new, only supplied from reliable Honda costing 250 sterlings. You see like most motorist here do not want to spend that kind a of cash on a small unit that you wont see unless you lift the hood. so is it worth it? I rather spent it on some escorts to be honest. 8)

Welll the things on certain vehicles the EGR is vital to keep the car running smooth but if its blocked it caused alot a fumes in diesel, or juddering in the Jazz, or it could cut out at junction (highly dangerous) and you keep stalling and re-starting the engine causing the battery to go flat, This the worst scenario, ive encountered with a EGR valves in my work vans. Back to my the point.

On the Jazz is a connector to the EGR, (easy to locate, a black cylinder to the left)  if you unplug it it  will run smooth again but you will sacrifice fuel efficiency around 36mpg. showing on my dash. if you plug it in again the kangaroo will jump back again.

I have unplug it for 6 months straight not a big drop to the fuel and i have use it every day for work and going around, at least its not annoying and jerking in the traffic. 
Its a Jazz it was never meant to be quick, but i have decided its better to get a new valve fiitted as i got bored with the Escorts :o
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4341 on October 25, 2013, 05:36:42 PM
Have been reading the forum after searching on the web for a resolution to this problem.  I have a 2003 SE 1.4 CVT and after having the car in for a gear box oil change I found the car was a bit jerky when pulling away - thought maybe it was because the CVT fluid had been changed.  So as it got worse over the next few days I noticed the engine management light had come on.  Searching online got me to this site and reading this thread.  To cut a long story short I had a mate check the codes and they pointed to EGR as expected.  So I replaced the EGR but it made no difference whatsoever.  I am now looking for pointers as to what else it could be.  The codes were - P0300/P0301/P0303/1491.  The car is pretty much undrivable as it stands.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4078 on October 25, 2013, 11:37:01 PM
Bad luck.
If all is ok with the new egr valve and it is all clean and tidy, then it is not lifting high enough when the control unit asks it to move.
Is new egr ok? Was it new or 'new' to you. Check the lines to egr, check wiring of egr to ecm
You could try cleaning the throttle body, manifold and fuelling system etc. 02 sensor(s)

Check if plugs are ok, coil pack etc.
Valves, check and adjust?

P0300- random / multiple misfire detected.
P0031- Cylinder 1 misfiring
P0303- cylinder 3 misfiring
P1491- "EGR Valve Lift Insufficient Detected"
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2688 on October 28, 2013, 12:43:11 PM
I have 2004 Honda Jazz 1.4SE model. If I stall the engine, it restarts fine, but when I take my foot off the accelerator, the engine dies on me!The problem does not occur if I drive on beyond 150 metres or so, but really annoying if I have to stop at traffic lights or at a junction within that distance (150 metres or so), after I have stalled. I replced the battery with a Honda dealer supplied battery, but it was just a waste of money. Got the car connected to analyse engine problem at a few garages, but did not give any error codes. Anybody who could help please. Thank you.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4341 on October 29, 2013, 01:44:49 PM
Hi Interlock,

Thanks for your input - it was the spark plugs after all.  I've never ever experienced so much trouble with spark plugs - another lesson learned.

I don't know why the P1491- "EGR Valve Lift Insufficient Detected" code appeared.  I have now removed the new EGR Valve and replaced it with the old one - seems okay so will see if the code appears again...

Thanks again,
Mikeb
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest2688 on October 29, 2013, 04:36:48 PM
I have 2004 Honda Jazz 1.4SE model. If I stall the engine, it restarts fine, but when I take my foot off the accelerator, the engine dies on me!The problem does not occur if I drive on beyond 150 metres or so, but really annoying if I have to stop at traffic lights or at a junction within that distance (150 metres or so), after I have stalled. I replced the battery with a Honda dealer supplied battery, but it was just a waste of money. Got the car connected to analyse engine problem at a few garages, but did not give any error codes. Anybody who could help please. Thank you.

Just yesterday I took the above mentioned car to a local garage, and i was told that the alternator is overcharging and hence i may need a new alternator - will cost around £300. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4348 on November 25, 2013, 01:23:35 PM
I have a 03 1.4 jazz and have this juddering when the engine is between 1500 - 2000 revs.

The battery was replaced approx 8 weeks ago.  Replacement battery is slightly bigger than the original battery and the problems seem to have started from there.  Honda dealer claims it is a problem with the wiring (which has been extended due to the larger battery and terminals on the other side), although I've had it checked by an auto-electrician who has given the wiring the all clear.

I've had the EGR valve cleaned but it made no difference.

I have noticed that the juddering is worst when the engine is cold, once its been running for about 30 minutes the juddering stops.  Could it be a problem with a temperature guage?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4078 on November 26, 2013, 12:04:09 AM
Hi, I guess you mean a misfire when you say juddering, rather than transmission etc.
I don't quite get the battery thing, why would that cause a limited rev range misfire.
I would try the easy/cheapish bits first, so:
fuel pump/pipes/tank venting ok? throttle body/ injectors ok/ vacuum leak/ manifold/ cat blocked? plugs/ coils? crankcase ventilation hose? you said you have had the egr valve cleaned, was it done properly/ is the solenoid ok?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4348 on November 27, 2013, 05:19:14 PM
Thanks for your response, i'll pass your suggestions on to my mechanically minded contacts (cos i dont have a clue).

Juddering is prob the best way to describe it - the car shakes and to stop it i dip the clutch. 
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4348 on November 28, 2013, 11:08:13 AM
Report from Diagnostic test below.  Dont know whether this helps anyone to diagnose car fault.


Code P1519: IACV fault
Checked wiring to IACV and ECM: wiring OK.
Removed IACU - shaft is free.
Required more diagnostic time to determine fault, time not granted: Rebuilt.


Honda wanted another £195 on top of the £78 for the diagnostic test to try to determine the fault, thought charge was excessive so didnt authorise further time.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4078 on November 28, 2013, 11:15:33 PM
Ok, well what you have there is:
Code P1519: IACV fault, which reads as Idle Air Control Valve wiring circuit fault. A bit beyond me!
So the garage have checked the unit which I suppose includes the solenoid for an open or dead short out?
I think you might be getting into throttle body replacement etc. if it is all u/s so can you find another garage that could do the investigation at less than the cost of the Honda dealer?

You said in your op that some wiring had been extended and that an autoelectrician had checked the new battery cable as ok. Maybe he should check your other wiring, did they damage the loom when they did the wiring extension?
Also, google of P1519 also returns discussion of cam sensors on Bmw's? Is that wiring ok on your car?

honda-tech.com has a thread with pictures on cleaning an IVAC, which might help you.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on November 29, 2013, 06:51:46 AM
Here is the troubleshooting process for that code P1519: link (http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/98/SAA2E98K72100081143FAAT00.HTML)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: ozjazzer on December 08, 2013, 10:27:01 AM
Please help  :o  I'm having an awful amount of trouble with my Honda Jazz 2003 GLi at the moment... it had been working great until getting a service about two years ago. It started chugging the next day when I filled it with fuel - so I suspected fuel problems. Eventually after weeks/months went by, the car went back to normal... that is, until the next service. The next day after the next service the same thing started happening. Eventually it settled back down, until the NEXT service when the same thing happened again. After many months it would settle back down to normal (until I'd forget about it and then go in for another service - doh!)

Fast forward to this happening five times after the last five services (not kidding - 5 times!) and three different mechanics later it happened the very next day after the service. Only this time the chugging is the worst it has ever been (and I'm telling you, sometimes it had been pretty bad bunny hopping) - especially on acceleration and on any incline... now it has started to stall - stalled on flat ground at 40km/hr.  Called the mechanic, he came out and put his electronic gadget on - saying it was the crank position sensor. $180 later he says it is working perfectly. The car started chugging again before I even returned home. Then stalled again a couple of days later, then on the weekend it stalled 5 times Saturday and 4 times Sunday. Each time the malfunction light came on. I waited a few minutes and was able to drive it again (with the same chugging and loss of power as before). Sometimes it would drive normally on the open highway, but even then there'd still be some chugging after a while.

Now I'm concerned about taking the car to ANY car service centre as it's obviously something they are messing with during the service and now I have major malfunctions and not sure how to go about fixing it.  I really thought mechanics were supposed to know what they are doing - they seem to have no clue with my car - I would have been better off if I hadn't serviced it at all the last 2years.

220,000km on the clock and the car is an automatic.

Can anyone please help?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: culzean on December 08, 2013, 11:16:45 AM
the EGR would only affect low speed running,  could be a blockage in the petrol cap vent (allows petrol tank pressure to normalise after fuel gets pumped out, otherwise a vacuum will develop in the tank and affect fuel delivery) to discount this remove the fuel tank cap and drive around for a while.   Don't know why it only happens after a service though - maybe you should ask the mechanics what they are doing - just fluid changes or are they disconnecting battery for any reason (this could reset the ECU memory, which will then gradually re-learn its settings as you drive.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4348 on January 01, 2014, 05:29:12 PM
Have had a bit of progress - replaced the throttle body which has stopped the juddering and the engine warning light has gone off.

However, the engine revs at 1800-2000 when idle. The revs don't come down when the engine is warm either.

Have tried moving the sensor on the side of the throttle body but this doesn't help.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: DV on January 01, 2014, 07:59:09 PM
There is a wire coming from the accelerator pedal to the throttle body, disconnect it then start the engine and see if it`s idling at the normal 640-700 rpm. If yes, than connect back the wire to the throttle body and adjust the wire tension....(loosen it).
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4348 on January 01, 2014, 11:00:11 PM
The wire is loose. Don't think that is the problem.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4078 on January 01, 2014, 11:39:38 PM
Is the vacuum ok? Try checking the pipes for leaks. Make sure att he fuses are ok.
Have you got ETCS, or an idle air control valve. If so could be a worn seal leaking air in?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest4811 on June 17, 2014, 02:12:01 PM
just ask local honda dealer, part num: 18714-PWA-004, less then £10 for sure
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0410&block_03=19959 (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0410&block_03=19959)

Seems like I have the dreaded Jazz EGR problem starting. Which replacement gasket will be required? No 3 or No 4?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: JazzyB on June 17, 2014, 03:02:51 PM
No.4
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest4811 on June 17, 2014, 03:33:49 PM
No.4

Thank you  :)

So it's part number 18715-PB2-000 that is required and not:

just ask local honda dealer, part num: 18714-PWA-004, less then £10 for sure
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0410&block_03=19959 (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SAA01&block_02=E__0410&block_03=19959)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: JazzyB on June 17, 2014, 06:13:29 PM
Part No.1 is the egr valve held down by Part No.6 two screws, so part no.4 is the gasket you are after.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: jazzista on June 24, 2014, 10:38:11 PM
Hi all,
given the symptoms SWMBO's Jazz (about 70000Km) was presenting (high consumption, poor idling and general roughness), I decided to disassemble and inspect the EGR valve.

Of course, it was clogged and stuck.

A good vinegar bath, a tootbrush and the Jazz seems much smoother now. And on the Scangauge the mythical 0.00 LPh started appearing again  ;)

Thanks a lot for the great DIY!!!

Stefano

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest5043 on October 06, 2014, 08:01:09 AM
i will be very gr8full if you update your problem status coz i have exactly the same problem and noone seem to know what is it.
p.s. it is not the alternator or a battery. im thinking of spark plugs cables or something in the air system
and the replay was for 112 comment
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest5337 on March 23, 2015, 05:21:40 AM
Thought I would post my experiences with this.

Australian Honda Jazz 2005 GD1 1.3L, 80,000km.
Issue was bucking at rev ranges between 1300 to 2500 RPM. Only happened when engine was warm.

Initially my googling led me to this thread as the issue sounded similar. Took EGR off cleaned with carbon cleaner and the issue went a way for a day. Thought that meant the EGR was the problem. Next day problem is back.
Issue got progressively worse till car stalled when warm cruising at speed. Engine light came on, then next day went off.

Took it to a mechanic who said OBD gave error P0339 - Crank Angle Sensor problem - advised taking to Honda for fixing.

After more googling found this thread
https://nzhondas.com/tech-help/121578-honda-fit-jerking-stalling.html
Possibly bad spark plugs - the issue only happening when cold kinda pointed to this problem.

Fabricated EGS blanking plate and installed - bucking still there.
Next step simply unplugged ignition coil from back spark plug - these are closest to the exhaust and so would die first. Drove car and not jerking!

Replaced 1 ignition coil - $40AUD from ebay, and problem is fixed.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest1521 on March 23, 2015, 05:58:27 AM
Exactly the same symptoms as you on my daughter's Jazz in NZ. Including the mouth-opening stall at cruising speed and engine light came on. Thoroughly cleaned EGR. No improvement. Then changed the (eight) spark plugs. All fixed.... and fine weeks and miles later!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: culzean on March 23, 2015, 09:29:50 AM
The bigger the gap in a spark plug the more voltage is required from coil to create a spark.  In a spark coil the voltage will continue to rise until it can discharge, if plugs are not changed at required intervals and gaps get very wide this can cause voltage stress on coil  electrical insulation and cause failure.  One of the posters on the NZ (Croc) site actually said that despite being serviced by Honda NZ dealer he had seen plugs that had never been changed, gaps were huge and the coils 'arced' (flashed over and damaged insulation).

Wonder how many garages even know about existence of rear plugs, let alone bother to change them - could be why rear coils fail,  not because of exhaust heat but from large gaps in rear plugs causing excess voltage and insulation failure in coil.  If I was replacing plugs in a GD I would definitely pay extra to get Iridium plugs which can last up to 70K because Iridium resists erosion by spark which is the culprit in opening up the plug gap.  Iridium plugs come as standard on GE and onwards, if an NGK plug has 'I' as first letter this denotes Iridium.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem
Post by: guest5360 on November 20, 2015, 08:31:21 PM
When I bought my new EGR valve from Honda dealer they asked my reg. no. only. On the old EGR valve I had F1 written (moulded in) on but on the new (upgraded) part I had F2.
Part no.: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3236.JPG (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3236.JPG)
New and old: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3268.JPG (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3268.JPG).

The EGR valve present on my 2008 Honda Jazz has got a F4 printed in the rusty bit.

Is it safe to say that it is one of the upgraded and good parts?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: basquejazzster on August 17, 2016, 06:55:05 PM
So... I took off the valve, pretty easy no probs and found there was no gasket... ??? of course I am going to buy one but I guess some mechanic just didn't bother putting a new one in...??? I need to use my car in the next few days.... will it be ok for a couple of days with no gasket??? thanks for any help...
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: culzean on August 17, 2016, 09:11:01 PM
The only thing that may leak out is a tiny amount of exhaust gas under the bonnet,  slight chance that it may get into cabin ventilation intake,  but if it has been running for a while with no gasket I guess it will be OK for another few days  ::)
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: basquejazzster on August 17, 2016, 10:12:54 PM
Thanks Culzean, anyone got a link for a gasket.


Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: RichardA on August 21, 2016, 07:05:37 PM
I thought my Jazz was suffering from the EGR valve problem, but the jerkiness went away after I had the airbag recall work done. Maybe the dealer disconnected the battery?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest6302 on August 24, 2016, 02:33:22 PM
Hi all
My wife's jazz '04 made 1.4 got p409 and p406 errors. Egr valve is cleaned, but lamp turns on aigain after ~60km.
How to disable it? If i just put metal plate between valve and housing would solve a problem? Or ecu needs to be flashed?
Another problem is with front wipers. If it cleans with period it stps on top of window-5cm.
If wiping without pause all is ok. I tested all relays and didnt found involved. Could it be rlay case or mechanical?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest1372 on August 24, 2016, 03:19:19 PM
P0406 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Sensor A Circuit High Voltage
P0409 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Sensor A Circuit

You don't need to change ECM settings, it just receives a signal to record if the valve is open or closed, and it also sends a signal to control it.  Putting in a plate is the same as a blocked or closed valve, ideally you want it to be open when the engine is at high RPM and low load.

The errors may indicate a wiring fault, a poor connection, the valve itself may be failing to open or close properly due to blockage, the valve actuator may have failed, the valve position sensor may have failed.  Cleaning the valve shaft usually fixes it.
 
There should be 12v on yellow/green wire, and black should be continuous to ground.
When unplugged, applying 12v & ground to the pink & black connections (bottom row outside) on the valve respectively should activate it, you should also be able to measure the resistance between yellow/green and green/black and white/black (top row on valve connector), the two smaller values should add up to the largest. 

(http://i66.tinypic.com/ok5w84.png)

Blocked EGR valve may give P0401 code

You can obtain a salvaged replacement for about €40. (eBay etc.)

Disabling it may have an impact on your NOx emissions.
--
TG
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest6302 on August 24, 2016, 04:08:16 PM
Thaks TG for answer.
Maybe i can unplug connector, put jumper on yellow/green or and white black and ecu would think that egr is ok?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest1372 on August 24, 2016, 05:05:55 PM
Not sure it's that simple, when it tells it to open a certain amount, it wants confirmation that it opened by the amount requested, same when it's closing it. 

It will probably generate a fault code if it thinks it is always open, or always closed, or stuck part way.

It won't know if the exhaust gas path is blocked or not (by a plate or deposits) but information from other sensors such as the first catalytic converter HO2S sensor and MAP sensor might be interpreted to determine this.

Even if the pathway inside looks clear, some people have reported success by making sure the piston/plunger inside the valve was clean, but it could be other faults.  This is most likely causing the high voltage reading as the valve position is probably different to that requested by the ECU.

Easiest (or best) option is to change it for a salvaged part.
I have a spare at my other house, so will measure the resistances & characteristics at the weekend.   I don't believe in much of the earlier talk of blanking plates and disabling it as it should provide a contribution to reducing emissions - your emissions test may be more strict than the UK.

http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/97/SAA2E97A20300000000CAAT10.HTML (http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/97/SAA2E97A20300000000CAAT10.HTML)

"The EGR system reduces oxides of nitrogen (NOx) emissions by recirculating exhaust gas through the EGR valve and the intake manifold into the combustion chambers. The ECM/PCM memory includes the ideal EGR valve position for varying operating conditions.

The EGR valve position sensor detects the amount of EGR valve lift and sends it to the ECM/PCM. The ECM/PCM then compares it with the ideal lift in its memory (based on signals sent from other sensors). If there is any difference between the two, the ECM/PCM cuts current to the EGR valve."


(http://i65.tinypic.com/10zad8p.png)


On your wipers - best start a separate topic, but I believe there is a contact within the drive mechanism that knows the park position. Some people modify their rear wiper so it parks vertically.
--
TG
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest6302 on September 02, 2016, 12:58:46 PM
Took that plunger from egr with pliers, moved inside out, washed with diesel - ok.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest6727 on March 21, 2017, 12:20:03 PM
It looks like this thread has been split... at least the first post on page one seems to not be the first post of the thread. Was the original thread archived somewhere?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest6770 on April 02, 2017, 09:40:52 AM
Since one year my Jazz is suffering from judder at around 2000 rpm. But it only starts when the engine is warm. Not when it's cold. If the EGR valve problem is about sticking open, what it should do at high revs, so when engine is warm, why don't I have this judder when the engine is still cold ?
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: basquejazzster on December 13, 2017, 03:31:40 PM
I have blanked off the EGR valve with a blanking plate. I am selling my car and twice after canceling a p1491 error - insufficient valve lift - it has come back. I have now cleaned the valve and am worried it will come back and show the engine error light. Has this happened to anyone else, any tips? Maybe the solenoid is stuck and the egr valve needs a good knock to dislodge the valve? The judder I had was definitely the egr valve because when I unplugged the valve it went away immediately and it seems to runs really well with the blanking plate on. Thanks!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: sparky Paul on December 17, 2017, 10:16:01 AM
If the valve is stuck, it will still throw up a fault - the ECU still has to see the EGR valve working, even if it's blanked off.

It's a fiddly job, but you have to clean it as thoroughly as possible with some non-oily solvent such as carb cleaner, make sure the plunger moves freely and replace with the blanking plate in situ.

I'm on the verge of blanking mine off too.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: basquejazzster on February 11, 2018, 05:51:46 PM
If the valve is stuck, it will still throw up a fault - the ECU still has to see the EGR valve working, even if it's blanked off.

It's a fiddly job, but you have to clean it as thoroughly as possible with some non-oily solvent such as carb cleaner, make sure the plunger moves freely and replace with the blanking plate in situ.

I'm on the verge of blanking mine off too.
Thanks! In the end I bought a second hand egr valve on ebay and installed that with the gasket! Seems to be working well!

Enviado desde mi MI 5 mediante Tapatalk

Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: guest5568 on July 07, 2018, 01:14:17 PM
Have just cleaned my EGR, so some additional feedback.

Car, UK Jazz Se 1.4 2008 CVT, about 80k miles.  From time to time, about one month or so for the last year, it has exhibited a hiccup (or hesitation) and always after 2-5 miles from home (or cold) when then engine would appear to be transitioning between cold and hot and it hiccups if you have been coasting or gradually slowing down then apply some power (only a little needed) to load the engine power to maintain speed or slightly increase speed.

At no time have there been any warning lights, etc.

I found the following posts most useful:
Page 5, post 68 from onefourkrpm – the photo
Page 7, post 95 from madasfish – the no check light diagnosis
Page 7, post 103 from mink – the instructions


I add the following:
Buy a new gasket before you start – only available from Honda for £8-£10.
Buy 2 new EGR bolts, flange M8 x 25
Here is the parts diagram link https://www.parts-honda.uk/honda-cars/JAZZ/2008/14-SE/ENGINE/EGR-VALVE/17SAA801/E__0410/1/22267

I had a 1/2inch drive 12mm socket with 12 faces – it would not fit on because the socket shoulder was fouling the EGR body.  You will need a socket with a 3/8inch drive so less shoulder and less socket height. I bought a new one and it just fitted – the height was about 1mm too high so it just wiggled on to the front bolt.  The rear bolt was an easier fit.

Use a 6 face socket as the bolt will be tight – a 12 face socket will be prone to slipping and turning the bolt head faces into a round bolt (I tried with my badly fitting 12 face 1/2 inch socket and very quickly realised the bolt head was starting to deform.)

You will need a socket extension bar.

My bolts were tight.  Trying the tighten up trick did not work.  So I used a hammer for a couple of sharp blows onto the extension bar onto each bolt.  Then try to undo the bolt – be patient, ensure your socket and extension bar are properly aligned vertically and gradually increase the turning pressure.  It need a fair bit of pressure – was using a 8inch socket lever handle –and then the bolt moved.

Undo each bolt about 2 turns.  Then apply pressure to the EGR body to release the gasket.  When loose remove the bolts and EGR.

My gasket came away almost 100% intact, however about 50% of the gasket was exhibiting some sort of ‘damage’, rather like when cardboard goes when wet.  The ‘damage’ was concentrated on the out side of each gas port hole where the pressure on the gasket would be least from the bolts.

On refitting the EGR, I used a torque wrench to refit – 16 ftlb has been mentioned somewhere in this thread
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: smilertoo on August 27, 2018, 08:21:46 PM
My gasket was reduced to a few flakes peeling off, had to order a new one from Honda. I would like to take it right apart to clean it properly but im not sure if trying to do so would break it. I just pulled out the little valve..jammed it open and soaked it all in EGR cleaner for a while.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: razordw on January 22, 2019, 07:59:31 PM
Hope it's okay to bring this topic up again. Anyway I stumbled on this forum while looking into how common of a problem Honda Fit/Jazz have had with a cylinder valve going bad as I was felt mine has had happen (more on why I thought this below). What I didn't expect was to find that an issue with the EGR valve was extremely common. That brings me to wonder if someone here can maybe help me decide if it's worth trying to check out the EGR valve or not. Please note this is for my wife's 2008 Honda Fit Sport (as implied, I'm in USA) with 110k miles.

Primary symptom is when the engine is cold (especially noticeable when the weather is also cold) rough idle (sometimes very rough), stalling when under in gear sometimes dying, even just dying when stopping. Note that once the engine is warmed up the issues all pretty much disappear as my wife has never complained of them when it's warmed up and it never does it to me when warm. Also she claims the Lucas fuel injector cleaner does help it behave better (I was thinking maybe valve with deposits that won't clear). Also I swear it sounds like has a slight pinging sound inside that used to never be there(I could just be hearing things). If driven cold too many times in a row, fuel economy will suffer, otherwise it sticks pretty close to 28-30mpg mixed driving. As of late, the last couple times my wife took off without letting it warm up enough, the engine stalled enough to cause the power brake boost to fail, so she had a frightening stop, thankfully no one was in front of her and no cross traffic. I did verify with a mechanic that all of the braking components are good.

Last year when this first presented itself as a large issue during cold weather (hesitation for probably a good year before this with issues trying to die, but not, on stopping) I decided to change the coils since the plugs had just been replaced(even went for premium plugs). It was still having issues so I tested compression and found Cylinder 1 had terrible cold compression, but fine compression when warmed up (rest were fine). At this time the engine finally started throwing miss fire codes, usually random, though sometimes it would give Cylinder 4 (wasn't sure if someone had messed up programming or wiring at that time). I've since seen it give other cylinder numbers as well on the miss fire, but that's it code wise. Since my brother-in-law is a mechanic(has his own shop), I talked with him and his thought was probably a valve not sealing correctly in the cylinder when cold. I then spoke with a Honda dealer to get a quote on fixing the issue, and as expected they said replacing the head was cheaper, though they then noticed it was even cheaper to just replace the engine.

Given the braking issues now occurring, I was looking again at the cost of going ahead and replacing the engine, but before doing so decided I better check to make sure this wasn't a common problem (last thing I want to do is install a "new" used engine only for it to start failing too) and discovered this forum. With that, I'm hoping maybe someone here can say if all these symptoms could easily be worth my time this weekend to deal with the cold and pull the EGR valve off, clean it, and then clean anything else related to the EGR.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: culzean on January 22, 2019, 08:17:56 PM
Stalling and misfire on mk1 can also be commonly caused by rear plugs never being replaced ( not many any people,including garages know that engine has 8 plugs ) and the gap being way too big, and if left this can cause one or more rear coli packs to fail.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: Jocko on January 23, 2019, 08:00:13 AM
Think the earliest US models were 1.5 Litre VTEC equipped, so only 4 spark plugs.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: culzean on January 23, 2019, 10:12:04 AM
Think the earliest US models were 1.5 Litre VTEC equipped, so only 4 spark plugs.

Yes,  there was a L15A2 i-DSI engine but Japan only I think.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: razordw on January 23, 2019, 03:11:02 PM
Stalling and misfire on mk1 can also be commonly caused by rear plugs never being replaced ( not many any people,including garages know that engine has 8 plugs ) and the gap being way too big, and if left this can cause one or more rear coli packs to fail.
Based on my experience changing the plugs, I for the life of me have no clue where these would be so I suspect as Jocko pointed out, that mine only has 4 given it is the American version. I should note that when I changed mine, that I feel they were essentially on the rear side with nothing under the cowl/intake in front. Kind of wish it had 2 sets just so I'd have a potential fix to the compression issue as further reading doesn't make me feel the EGR could cause that. That said I do think mine probably has the EGR issue as well due to the random misfire codes so I'll take time regardless now this weekend to try and clean it out.
Title: Re: The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)
Post by: culzean on January 24, 2019, 08:41:19 AM
Stalling and misfire on mk1 can also be commonly caused by rear plugs never being replaced ( not many any people,including garages know that engine has 8 plugs ) and the gap being way too big, and if left this can cause one or more rear coli packs to fail.
Based on my experience changing the plugs, I for the life of me have no clue where these would be so I suspect as Jocko pointed out, that mine only has 4 given it is the American version. I should note that when I changed mine, that I feel they were essentially on the rear side with nothing under the cowl/intake in front. Kind of wish it had 2 sets just so I'd have a potential fix to the compression issue as further reading doesn't make me feel the EGR could cause that. That said I do think mine probably has the EGR issue as well due to the random misfire codes so I'll take time regardless now this weekend to try and clean it out.

Yeah the 4 plugs on the VTEC engine are a PITA to change,  you have to unbolt and remove some of the scuttle to reach them as they are on the rear of the engine and no room. At least they are Iridium electrodes which will last at least 70,000 miles,  you would have to replace the normal plugs in i-DSi engine 3 x in same mileage,  and many garages don't bother..