Jazz after VWs?

[coffeecup]

I could do with a few more inches seat back, i'm  6 foot, but put up with that.

[I prefer rock]

Unfortunately, the Jazz I'm looking at is not local (there isn't one local), so I can't try it on roads that I know.
It is out on the fens, so very flat roads! Not ideal, but I've read lots and lots of reviews.
I'm coming to terms with the fact that it is going to be different to what I'm used to, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing.
There is a Fabia for sale locally, at a similar price, but actually, after the Jazz, I'm not sure I even want to try it. I liked how light and airy and easy to drive the Jazz is.

[springyboy]

I think a Jazz will be a step down from your Golf, it is a class smaller, but if you get a ten year younger car you will probably feel it is very good and provides a lot more than your old Golf did.
I've had several VW/Audi/Skoda cars and one Jazz. I currently run an 02 Fabia and an 09 Jazz, both from new. They have all been pretty good. Only unexpected job has been replacement rear discs on the Jazz due to rust, I don't think such a small car needs rear discs and the rear drums on the Fabia have been faultless. I have always done my own maintenance and that's part of the reason for sticking with a brand that you know and have become familiar with the engineering. The Fabia is more solidly built than the Jazz, better plastics, better fabrics, better paint,  it rides more comfortably and just seems a tougher car. The Jazz is more bumpy and the brakes are more snatchy but it uses less fuel.  My Jazz has a more impressive paper spec than the Fabia but in the real world it does not provide many benefits and has the disadvantage of only having a space saver spare wheel, unusual sized tyres, and an unusual sized battery which limits choice/cost when replacing. The much touted magic rear seats are useful if you need to use the space but I hardly ever need to. Though the cars are about the same size the Fabia is more accommodating for passengers and luggage, this is important when fully loaded for airport trips etc.  I am not a fan of gunk to fix a puncture, a space saver spare is better but if you use it where are you going to put the full size wheel that you remove, my preference is for a full size spare, so if that is important to you you may want to check the availability and storage space of a full size spare in your proposed new car.
My cars are now considered old and simple. The current generations of Fabia and Jazz, (and all others too) include more spohistication and things that may go wrong. In particular I would be concerned about direct injection leading to carbon build up on valves over time which can mean an expensive repair job. Some manufacturers are attempting to overcome this problem with port injection in addition to direct injection leading to an even more complex engine.  If you want automatic transmission most dual clutch gearboxes will not be as easy and smooth in traffic as an old technology torque converter auto. There are not many makes that still use torque converter autos these days though Ford are reverting to them on Fiesta's? after problems with their dual clutch gearboxes, (as a sidenote I find the Fiesta much nicer to drive than the Fabia and Jazz). The VW DSG boxes have a poor reliability reputation though the newest ones may have resolved their problems.  Not sure about Honda auto box, you can see owners comments about CVT in these forums.
Another factor is having confidence in your dealer / garage.  With an older car an independent garage is probably best so perhaps you could ask such a garage what they think about your proposed purchase.
Overall I think investing money in a good example of an older technology car may be better than buying into newer technology and if you've got a good local garage it should not really matter what badge is on the bonnet. If you keep your new car till it is 18 years old you will have to hope it will still be economically repairable in 2030+ and the more sophisticated it is the less likely that may be.
Hope my comments are of some help.
       

[MartinJG]

I am a recent convert to Honda and now have a Jazz Mk2. Had an Octavia Estate TDI before this which was a really great car and never let me down till age caught up with it last year. I considered another one but checked with people in the trade and the advice was to buy Toyota or Honda for sheer reliability and solid engineering which is important if buying a used car. I would never buy new again on principle. Been there done it. Truth is, it seems VW have lost the plot for now. The Jazz is not a refined car but it is a very good one and ideal for my own requirements of practicality and economy. It's just a good all rounder.

[123Drive!]

From my experience, Jazz wins! main reason being less problematic. My dear Dad was a big VW fan and with the dealership 5 mins away, he brought a  Derby in 1980 and then a used one for me in 1985, later a Jetta and a Polo Coupe. Unfortunately, the cars used to break down but worst of all, vw dealers couldn't fixed anything and worst still, used to create more problems, e.g., scratching the bodywork etc. In 1994, when I was able to afford my own car, I brought a new Civic Bel-Air and sold it in 2012 with 105,000 miles on the clock. I couldn't believe how reliable it was and dealership was excellent.

Fast forward, I now have a 2009 Esi i-shift and a manual Seat Ibiza SE, both with same age and mileage. Engineering wise, the Jazz is much more refined-engine runs smoothly compared to the Ibiza. Cost cutting wise, although plastic dashboard is not nice, at least they have a bit of cloth in the door cards, unlike the Seat, plus you get more equipment with the Honda. Further, the engine bay in the Ibiza is so cheaply finished, I always cut myself just by changing a light bulb! I am a driving instructor and realised the Spanish car costs more to run due to more problems, e.g., fan motor, alternator, O2 sensors, door lock and windscreen washer motor all needed changing. The only thing that went on the Jazz was the i-shift actuator, £350, over the same period.  Dealership wise, I am with an independent garage now but I would say Honda dealer aren't as good as used to be, but according to surveys, they are still way ahead of VWs/Seat. Design wise the Ibiza looks nice both in and out but the Jazz offers more practicality.

Although the newer VW Golf is nicely made, what put me off was the lack of standard equipment-leather steering wasn't standard!! Personally I will have a crack at the Jazz. If you don't like it, then change it back to VWs as the former holds its value  Just make sure you don't go for the DSG gearbox if you go back to a VW!

[peteo48]

One factor that might be worth mentioning is that reliability is not the only factor when choosing a car. It's very important to me but if you buy an expensive luxury car, reliability may not be as good as a cheaper and simpler model. There's a trade off. My neighbour has a Land Rover Evoque - she loves it but admits that she gets more than her fair share of niggles.

Interesting take by springyboy. Many advocates of "Bangernomics" are arguing that the days of the easily fixable and simple old car may be coming to an end as newer models get more and more complex.

[culzean]

Reliability trumps style for me every time, I like to know when I start a journey that I will get back home without a problem.  Standing on the side of a rain soaked motorway in the dark waiting for the AA is not my idea of a good day, and even more important when my wife is out in her car as a woman in a broken down car is particularly vulnerable.  She likes the MK2 ride ( but only with 15" wheels, not the harsh 16" ) but wished it had the 8 valve engine as she found it nicer to drive.  Also when buying second hand out of warranty unreliable cars can get expensive to run. 

It does seem that MK2 is the sweet spot with prices actually going up since the MK3 has been introduced, not everyone want a car full of dubious technology..  I don't like to say this but Honda may well be losing the plot as well in their efforts to fill the MK3 with latest tech,  and maybe they cost cut elsewhere to do it.

I was gobsmacked at the refinement and power ( and economy) of the boosterjet 1.4 Direct injection petrol engine in my brothers Suzuki Vitara and would have one in a hearbeat - it pulls like a train from just over tickover  till almost 5,000 revs ( I have a Suzuki motorbike and that has a great engine as well ) - so when I decide to change my Civic that may be my choice - I will wait to see if any unexpected problems turn up with the boosterjet for a couple of years though, rather than be an early adopter and have problems..

[I prefer rock]

Thanks for all your replies. It's interesting reading different perspectives.
The Jazz I've found is a 1.4 EX with about 27,000 miles. It comes with a year's warranty and has another service left on an existing plan for the end of the year.
I wish I could try it on a motorway and up a few hills, but it's not possible given it's location.
How noisy are they on motorways and do they struggle? I drive pretty sensibly and generally stick to speed limits, but I'd like to know I could accelerate quick enough to get out of the way of a problem, like a left hand drive lorry suddenly pulling out.

[culzean]

Thanks for all your replies. It's interesting reading different perspectives.
The Jazz I've found is a 1.4 EX with about 27,000 miles. It comes with a year's warranty and has another service left on an existing plan for the end of the year.
I wish I could try it on a motorway and up a few hills, but it's not possible given it's location.
How noisy are they on motorways and do they struggle? I drive pretty sensibly and generally stick to speed limits, but I'd like to know I could accelerate quick enough to get out of the way of a problem, like a left hand drive lorry suddenly pulling out.

The MK2 has plenty of grunt ( a pretty light car with over 100 ponies) but you need to rev it to make 'furious progress'  - which can be strange to some drivers ( power starts to kick in properly above 3000).
It may be disconcerting to someone who has moved from a diesel,  but diesels make all their power at low revs, and just when the Honda is coming on song the diesel will be running out of puff.

You will not damage a Honda engine by revving it, in fact they love it - Honda regularly run engines flat out for 24 hours straight as part of their quality control - I was a very spirited driver of my first Civic and often gave the rev limiter a workout and that is the one that did over 190,000 miles without a spanner on engine or drive train... and even at that high mileage it never used a drop of oil between changes and the emissions figures were better than when the car was new. 

The MK2 is not noisy at normal motorway speeds,  if it is it may well be tyres to blame,  Michelin ES+ will be your best bet for a quiet life,  but all tyres carry a decibel rating now anyway ) but engine is so quiet at idle that you have to get used to checking rev counter before starting it ...

[Jocko]

How noisy are they on motorways and do they struggle? I drive pretty sensibly and generally stick to speed limits, but I'd like to know I could accelerate quick enough to get out of the way of a problem, like a left hand drive lorry suddenly pulling out.

I have a 1.2 Mk 1 and it is more than adequate for motorway driving. It is not brisk at accelerating, but on the odd occasions a truck has started to pull out on me, I have always found the brakes more than adequate to get me out of trouble!

[123Drive!]

Would it be possible to go to another dealer near a motorway or something just to test drive a  Jazz? Or say to this dealer you are very keen to buy this car subject to the long test drive. If they want your business, they may be happy to let you do the long test drive. I had a 24 HR test drive on the Civic back in 1994.

I would definitely use Shell V-Power on the Jazz. (The topic has been discussed many times here). It's not a fast car but for every day use, it is totally adequate. But don't expect NSX performance.

Yes a car is a fine balance between every thing. I think it's the owner's priority. But if reliability and good engineering is what you want, then the Jazz is the car for you.

[MartinJG]

How noisy are they on motorways and do they struggle? I drive pretty sensibly and generally stick to speed limits, but I'd like to know I could accelerate quick enough to get out of the way of a problem, like a left hand drive lorry suddenly pulling out.

I have a 1.2 Mk 1 and it is more than adequate for motorway driving. It is not brisk at accelerating, but on the odd occasions a truck has started to pull out on me, I have always found the brakes more than adequate to get me out of trouble!

Jocko

Welcome back. Glad to see you in good humour. Hope everything is OK on the health front.

[I prefer rock]

So, I decided to go for it.
Arranged with the dealer to collect it on Saturday, discussed payment and arranged insurance. Then the dealer's colleague sold it to someone else 🙄
Very disappointed, but gives me more opportunity for test driving and also to consider an automatic or even hybrid.
Any advice or thoughts on these?