Mk1 CVT judder

[guest2755]

Facing a similar issue with a 2003 Jazz that's only done 71,000 miles. Told its over the 7 year guarantee and therefore will cost c. £800.

Not happy!

[guest1440]

Hi HelpMePlease,
I can only say that CVT type Jazz needs transmission oil changed every 45K or 5years whichever comes first.Your car was filled with the old ATF-Z1 oil and have to be replaced with the new CVTF.After that your start cluch needs calibration which is almost only possible at the main Honda  dealer. They have the right tool for that. Other thing with Jazz is that whenever the battery is disconnected or become flat calibration is needed again . Here is an email extract from a Jazz specialist which I received when I had similar problems with mine.
<...
  The slow take  up speed could be due to the start clutch being out of calibration. This happens when people take the battery terminals off or get a flat battery and is a cause of many major transmission problems. In Australia all battery terminals have a warning tag saying removing this will loose all start clutch calibrations and to take the vehicle to the nearest Honda dealer.

This calibration must also be re-done whenever the transmission fluid is replaced.

Calibration has to be done with the factory scan tool.

I would check with your Honda dealer as to the state of the start clutch and even if the diagnostic tool says complete get it deleted and relearnt at least 2 or 3 time in concession.

Note: failure to get a start clutch calibrated correctly can cause irreversible damage to these transmissions. Very expensive if this happens...  >

Hope this helps

[Ozzie]

Excellent post Teodor.

HelpMePlease,
I would tread very carefully about challenging Honda legally. In my experience I find that a pleading approach to customer services at UK HQ is probably the best approach (it works with Vauxhall).

It looks like the clutch needs recalibrating, I think try that first and lets hope that sorts it.

Good luck.

Oz

[mafffoster]

Bought a 2006 sport auto with 30000 miles and noticed the judder/vibration when pulling away and the car also rolled backwards too easily when in drive which was quite worrying, took it back and had the cvt oil replaced and the car seems better for now. I keep millage to a minimum so probably won't notice if it returns very soon...Thanks to all the posters on the forum for supplying information so I could gain some knowledge before going back to Honda!

[Ramage]

I noticed the dreaded judder on the first day I had my (new to me) 56 plate Jazz.

I phoned the dealers and complained, they took it in and flushed the CVT.  No problem since, but if it re-occurs I will be after them for a replacement transmission...

UPDATE

The judder crept back, steadily getting worse (although not as bad as originally).

I complained at the next service, and the car is in today having the starter clutch replaced under warranty. (It is still covered by the 1 year used Honda warranty).

[guest1231]

As amatter of interest what might happen if this start clutch problem is not fixed.

[guest3754]

I just bought a second hand 2005 and hadn't noticed this on the test drive but I think I was being too careful. Honda have changed the CVT fluid for me but cost £180, having driven a further 200 miles the problem hasn't gone away, my understanding is that they will change it again if I take it in again but if it still continues it will require a much more expensive clutch replacement.

Thankfully the car is covered by a 3 month dealer warranty which doesn't expire until March 2013 so I will try to get them to pay for the work.

I'd be interested to know what would happen if the clutch wasn't replaced though, would it get worse or seize up altogether or would it just continue with the same annoying (but tolerable) judder forever more?

[olduser1]

Roakes - strongly advise you write to the dealership today & explain the fault - ask them to rectify as you believe the CVT was defective when you purchased the vehicle. Note the mileage and any other factors.
Let the forum know how you get on

[guest3754]

Honda quoted approx £1600 (inc labour) to replace the starter clutch, the dealer has offered to fix the issue themselves via their "gearbox guys" rather than Honda direct. Going to take it into them in the new year.

[guest3817]

We had the Start Clutch pack changed today. We bought my wife's CVT-SE from a Honda MD in March last year and fortunately it was supplied with a 12month Honda warranty. We took the car into our local dealer because the steering developed the strange feel that I have found, by reading on here and other forums, is quite common and the Tech reported the vibration after the road-test. I can only guess he drove with a bit more vigour than we do as we hadn't thought anything much wrong; it is our first adventure with a CVT transmission and, although we had noticed a bit of roughness and delay on take-up sometimes we put this down to not being used to this type of gearbox and with our other car being my Smart Fortwo the Jazz seemed very good! Having read some of the prices quoted we are very pleased this was picked up while just still inside the warranty period.

The steering rack was replaced also so, all in, a bad day for those picking up the tab.

[DrShockr]

Just carried out a CVT flush on my (new to me) 2005 Jazz with 91k on the clock, problem has completely dissappeared! 

I can't be sure how long the problem has been going on for as I only bought the car 2 weeks ago but before the flush, once the car had warmed up the judder was very noticeable (whole car vibrated as if going over a gravely road) if anything other than veerrry light throttle was applied from standstill.

Honda warranty expired last year, they wanted to charge me £150 for the procedure! I instead bought 2 (4L) bottles of CVT-F fluid from Honda (£40 each) and proceeded to do it myself. For the benefit of any other fellow DIYers here's what I did:

1. Jack the car up on left side and drain old transmission fluid by undoing the bolt with the square indent as shown here:
http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/02/SAA2E02E15100013001KBAT00.HTML

2. Clean any debris off of the magnetic bolt and remove jack so the car is back on level ground to allow more dirty oil to pour out. I even jacked the car up on the opposite side so even more oil could drain out!

3. Refit drain bolt. (advisable to use a new washer but I used the old one)

4. Fill with new fluid via the transmission dipstick hole using a short pipe and funnel of some sort and check underneath the car for any leaks. I poured about 2.5 litres after which stopped and checked the fluid level on the dipstick, adding more as neccessary until it reached somewhere between the two 'cold' dots.

5. Start the car and engage all gears one by one. check fluid level again.

6. Find a quiet street and drive up to about 25 mph and coast down to zero – 6 times. as recomended here:
http://www.thaipulse.com/blog/thailand-places/traveling/thailand-honda-jazz-cvt-transmission-problems/

At this point my judder was still there, albeit not nearly as bad as before so I decided there was nothing to lose by carrying out a 'stall test' which apparently clears the dirt on the start clutch as described here:
http://nzhondas.com/tech-help/145635-cvt-shudder-how-clean-start-clutch-stall-test.html

7. Stall test: fully depress brake predal and slowly raise the revs till the stall point, should be 2500rpm (very disconcerting noises may be heard!) and drop again, idle for about 2 minutes then do the same in reverse. I repeated this 3 times in D and R. Do not do this for anymore than 10 seconds each time!
Idled a bit more and drove back to my garage, surprisingly the judder was almost gone!

8. Drain CVT fluid again and replace with second bottle of CVT-F. I carried out the 25mph coast to stop procedure again at this point.


I've driven the car on traffic jammed London streets as well as on the motorway since the flush, and can safely say the judder has totally and utterly gone - here's hoping it lasts and never comes back!

Whether the 25mph to coast to a stop procedure had any effect I don't know, but the stall test seriously had an effect almost immediately, although it should be noted that this should not be done with dirty fluid in the transmission as it will just jam more gunk into the start clutch.

Hope this is helpful to somebody out there 

Happy Jazzing!

[guest3418]

Thanks for the detailed info!

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[fisherman]

Our Japanese imported 03 model has ATF on the dip stick, and the fluid was red, however we had the judder and after reading this forum I changed the fluid to CVT-F now it feels like a different car, no judder and a free-er revving engine. Well pleased.

[guest4166]

did you just do a straight drain and refill of your CVT. I have just bought a CVT-7 jazz and thinking to do this with the Honda fluid

[DrShockr]

did you just do a straight drain and refill of your CVT. I have just bought a CVT-7 jazz and thinking to do this with the Honda fluid

If you're experiencing a judder then a flush is required - drain and refill twice with some driving and certain procedure in between.

Otherwise just a simple drain and refill should suffice. However, if your car is pre 2006 and you're not sure if the fluid has been changed previously then a flush is advised as it could be possible that the old Z1 fluid has been used in your transmission, this fluid was not designed for use in CVTs and can lead to premature failure of the transmission.

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